Biggest club

[bantamigo]

I suppose Bradford have to come next due to their brief top flight appearances, but their crowds don't stand up to the bigger clubs when they actually have to pay proper money to get in.

We've averaged 13,222 for the last 21 years. We've only dropped below a 10,000 average in the last 21 years for three seasons, the seasons we were in L1 between 2004-07 when we went through 2 admins and 2 relegations and the football club was basically looking like it was going to die. Whereas according to UTS's list Rovrum's highest average attendance since 1986 was just over 10,000. Sneer.

Out of interest there is a bloke from Bradford who drinks in our local and him and all his mates follow ( Man United ) don't go though. Some do go to City occasionally. But he said in their younger days all followed PA.
Question is how will it affect City's gates when PA finally restore their league status ? He again stated that most of his mates would go back to watching PA when and if this happens.

BPA seems dead to me. A few old hardcore might go back to watching them but most kids now are City fans, many Leeds and BPA fans who live in the city and don't like the Bantams now take their kids to watch us because they can get them in for free due to the ticket schemes, and the kids then become City fans. I doubt many even know what Park Avenue is.

It's a shame for them as it'd be good to have two strong football league clubs in the city. To realistically get the fans flocking back there they would a) need a much better stadium than the Horsfall and b) need a ticketing scheme which could compete with City's.

 

[Franchisor]

I'm unconvinced about Mowbray. Think Wigan will become a yoyo club between the second and the third. I think we'll finish midtable and Charlton will be up there but Bradford won't find the form of last season.

In terms of biggest to smallest clubs, for what it's worth, I'd rank as follows...

1. Charlton
2. Blackburn
3. Pompey
4. Bradford
5. Bristol Rovers
6. Oxford
7. Millers
8. Plymouth
9. Oldham
10. Wigan
11. Blackpool
12. Peterborough
13, Gillingham
14. Southend
15. Northampton
16. Walsall
17. Wimbledon
18. Bury
19. Shrewsbury
20. Donny
21. Scunthorpe
22. Rochdale
23. MK
24. Fleetwood

How are MK Dons smaller than Rochdale?

- We've achieved more in our short history than Rochdale have in nearly a century (L2 champions, L1 runners up, League Trophy)
- Bigger/better stadium
- Higher attendances
- Bigger budget, better players
- We've been in the 2nd tier as recently as 2 season ago, Rochdale never been higher than 3rd tier

Same applies to AFC Wimbledon - highest honour they've won is L2 playoffs, have a smaller stadium, smaller budget, lower home attendances.

Same applies to Gillingham and Southend - less prestigious honours, smaller stadium and budget, lower attendances.

I know it doesn't fit the whole "fairytale" thing, but just being realistic.

ALSO - apart from history, we beat a lot of other clubs in this league on most other aspects - fanbase (yes, its true), stadium size, budget, quality of squad, playing at a higher level more recently etc.

 

[Shrimpurh]

How are MK Dons smaller than Rochdale?

- We've achieved more in our short history than Rochdale have in nearly a century (L2 champions, L1 runners up, League Trophy)
- Bigger/better stadium
- Higher attendances
- Bigger budget, better players
- We've been in the 2nd tier as recently as 2 season ago, Rochdale never been higher than 3rd tier

Same applies to AFC Wimbledon - highest honour they've won is L2 playoffs, have a smaller stadium, smaller budget, lower home attendances.

Same applies to Gillingham and Southend - less prestigious honours, smaller stadium and budget, lower attendances.

I know it doesn't fit the whole "fairytale" thing, but just being realistic.

ALSO - apart from history, we beat a lot of other clubs in this league on most other aspects - fanbase (yes, its true), stadium size, budget, quality of squad, playing at a higher level more recently etc.

Don't think you've ever won L1 fella...
What's your highest ever league finish ... 23rd in Champ... not as high as ours.

 

[KeithH]

How are MK Dons smaller than Rochdale?

- We've achieved more in our short history than Rochdale have in nearly a century (L2 champions, L1 runners up, League Trophy)
- Bigger/better stadium
- Higher attendances
- Bigger budget, better players
- We've been in the 2nd tier as recently as 2 season ago, Rochdale never been higher than 3rd tier

Same applies to AFC Wimbledon - highest honour they've won is L2 playoffs, have a smaller stadium, smaller budget, lower home attendances.

Same applies to Gillingham and Southend - less prestigious honours, smaller stadium and budget, lower attendances.

I know it doesn't fit the whole "fairytale" thing, but just being realistic.

ALSO - apart from history, we beat a lot of other clubs in this league on most other aspects - fanbase (yes, its true), stadium size, budget, quality of squad, playing at a higher level more recently etc.

The title says CLUB not feckin FRANCHISE

 

[Rob_of_the_green]

I think it's just because everyone hates MK Dons...

 

[PuB]

Tiny weeny plastic football franchise

 

[Strawberry_Jam]

I think it's just because everyone hates MK Dons...

If more than half hate MK Dons we should take it as gospel.


(This only applies to football and not to politics)

 

[PuB]

If more than half hate MK Dons we should take it as gospel.


(This only applies to football and not to politics)

Let's have a VOTE

 

[Franchisor]

Don't think you've ever won L1 fella...
What's your highest ever league finish ... 23rd in Champ... not as high as ours.

Either way, it's not the only point to judge the 'size' of a club. All I was saying is that there isn't a massive difference between what Southend, Gillingham, AFC Wimbledon and Rochdale have accomplished compared to us.

When you start factoring in other things like attendances, stadium, facilities, infrastructure, budget, quality of squad, then you can see why I'd say we're a bigger club.

Not trying to be malicious, just being realistic. Ofcourse we're nowhere near the level of half the teams in this league, but to say we're a bottom 2 club in terms of size is naive.

 

[Strawberry_Jam]

Let's have a VOTE

You can't have 3 options. Thats not allowed

 

[Shrimpurh]

Either way, it's not the only point to judge the 'size' of a club. All I was saying is that there isn't a massive difference between what Southend, Gillingham, AFC Wimbledon and Rochdale have accomplished compared to us.

When you start factoring in other things like attendances, stadium, facilities, infrastructure, budget, quality of squad, then you can see why I'd say we're a bigger club.

Not trying to be malicious, just being realistic. Ofcourse we're nowhere near the level of half the teams in this league, but to say we're a bottom 2 club in terms of size is naive.

Better squad also ? didn't we finish above you last season?

Yeah you got a nice stadium less than a third full

 

[Franchisor]

The title says CLUB not feckin FRANCHISE

Tiny weeny plastic football franchise

If the title says club and 'franchises' aren't included then why are people still mentioning us in their tables? Be a bit more consistent.

I support my local club, I pay for a season ticket, go to away games, enjoy the football etc. What makes me any different to any other fan of any other club? I'm not a glory hunter supporting Man Utd/Chelsea and living hundreds of miles away. Hardly 'plastic'.

We have a brilliant club here, a fantastic stadium, a fanbase which is constantly growing (and will be a lot bigger with new generations), a VERY good youth academy that has produced one of the best players in the world, and other Prem players like Sheyi Ojo, Brendan Galloway....Bundesliga players like Kevin Danso (also an Austria international).

Like it or not, we're here to stay, and already achieving a lot more than clubs that are decades older than us.

How many established clubs can say in the space of 13 years:

- Produced a current England international, one of the best players in the world and worth probably in the region of £70m+?
- Won the Football League Trophy
- Beat Manchester United 4-0 in the league cup, regarded as one of the biggest upsets ever in that competition
- Promoted to the Championship
- Won League 2
- Frequently voted one of the most family friendly/community-focused clubs in the country
- Produced numerous academy players that have played in the Prem

Not many.

 

[Bobbin']

If the title says club and 'franchises' aren't included then why are people still mentioning us in their tables? Be a bit more consistent.

I support my local club, I pay for a season ticket, go to away games, enjoy the football etc. What makes me any different to any other fan of any other club? I'm not a glory hunter supporting Man Utd/Chelsea and living hundreds of miles away. Hardly 'plastic'.

We have a brilliant club here, a fantastic stadium, a fanbase which is constantly growing (and will be a lot bigger with new generations), a VERY good youth academy that has produced one of the best players in the world, and other Prem players like Sheyi Ojo, Brendan Galloway....Bundesliga players like Kevin Danso (also an Austria international).

Like it or not, we're here to stay, and already achieving a lot more than clubs that are decades older than us.

How many established clubs can say in the space of 13 years:

- Produced a current England international, one of the best players in the world and worth probably in the region of £70m+?
- Won the Football League Trophy
- Beat Manchester United 4-0 in the league cup, regarded as one of the biggest upsets ever in that competition
- Promoted to the Championship
- Won League 2
- Frequently voted one of the most family friendly/community-focused clubs in the country
- Produced numerous academy players that have played in the Prem

Not many.

You had me but then I got to this ....

a VERY good youth academy that has produced one of the best players in the world

Might want to slow it down a little.

 

[Franchisor]

Better squad also ? didn't we finish above you last season?

Yeah you got a nice stadium less than a third full

Yes, we have a better squad - it was our manager (Robinson) that had given us a bad start to the season. With Neilson taking over in December, we were one of the in-form sides in the league. We certainly do now with our new additions. Southend are punching above their weight, just like Fleetwood.

Bit of an extreme example, but Chelsea finished 10th in the Prem in 2015/16 - below Stoke and West Ham. You think that Stoke had a better squad than Chelsea that season?

Our fans didn't ask for a 30k stadium did they? Southend can't even come close to filling a 12k stadium. We had the 5th highest average attendance in L1 last season, more than Millwall and other established clubs. And believe me, our stadium attendances will only grow over the next few decades with younger generations coming through.

 

[Aber gas]

How are MK Dons smaller than Rochdale?

- We've achieved more in our short history than Rochdale have in nearly a century (L2 champions, L1 runners up, League Trophy)
- Bigger/better stadium
- Higher attendances
- Bigger budget, better players
- We've been in the 2nd tier as recently as 2 season ago, Rochdale never been higher than 3rd tier

Same applies to AFC Wimbledon - highest honour they've won is L2 playoffs, have a smaller stadium, smaller budget, lower home attendances.

Same applies to Gillingham and Southend - less prestigious honours, smaller stadium and budget, lower attendances.

I know it doesn't fit the whole "fairytale" thing, but just being realistic.

ALSO - apart from history, we beat a lot of other clubs in this league on most other aspects - fanbase (yes, its true), stadium size, budget, quality of squad, playing at a higher level more recently etc.

Wimbledon have won the FA cup and spent years in the top flight.

 

[Franchisor]

You had me but then I got to this ....



Might want to slow it down a little.

It's not a Cat 1 academy, but will be when our training ground is built in the next 18 months. Yes, probably a little OTT with how good our academy is, but better than 90% of the teams in this league, I'd say only Charlton, Bradford, Blackburn, Wigan and Portsmouth have better academies. Think AFC Wimbledon's is pretty good tbh, their reserve/U21 sides do very well.

 

[Franchisor]

Wimbledon have won the FA cup and spent years in the top flight.

Correct. But AFC Wimbledon didn't, they were established in 2002. Merton council own Wimbledon FC's honours, not AFC Wimbledon.

They can't have it both ways - their club stated things like "AFC Wimbledon win promotion to the football league for the first time" when they got out of the Conference, yet also claim they are the same club that won the FA Cup which played in the Prem.

Ironically, wikipedia has an accurate record of their honours to date:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFC_Wimbledon#Club_honours

 

[Bobbin']

It's not a Cat 1 academy, but will be when our training ground is built in the next 18 months. Yes, probably a little OTT with how good our academy is, but better than 90% of the teams in this league, I'd say only Charlton, Bradford, Blackburn, Wigan and Portsmouth have better academies. Think AFC Wimbledon's is pretty good tbh, their reserve/U21 sides do very well.

I meant Dele being one of the best midfielders in the world. Not denying that your academy is decent or that Dele is a fantastic player but getting a bit carried away I think.

 

[Shrimpurh]

Yes, we have a better squad - it was our manager (Robinson) that had given us a bad start to the season. With Neilson taking over in December, we were one of the in-form sides in the league. We certainly do now with our new additions. Southend are punching above their weight, just like Fleetwood.

Bit of an extreme example, but Chelsea finished 10th in the Prem in 2015/16 - below Stoke and West Ham. You think that Stoke had a better squad than Chelsea that season?

Our fans didn't ask for a 30k stadium did they? Southend can't even come close to filling a 12k stadium. We had the 5th highest average attendance in L1 last season, more than Millwall and other established clubs. And believe me, our stadium attendances will only grow over the next few decades with younger generations coming through.

L1 is probably about right for us. You just massively punching below your weight massive massive MK Dons zzzzzzz

 

[Aber gas]

Correct. But AFC Wimbledon didn't, they were established in 2002. Merton council own Wimbledon FC's honours, not AFC Wimbledon.

They can't have it both ways - their club stated things like "AFC Wimbledon win promotion to the football league for the first time" when they got out of the Conference, yet also claim they are the same club that won the FA Cup which played in the Prem.

Ironically, wikipedia has an accurate record of their honours to date:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFC_Wimbledon#Club_honours

I can have it any way I want. AFC are a continuation of the old club imo. I know some of their fans disagree but there we are. They continue the legacy of the club and keep the traditions. This will be even more evident when they move home.

 

[Franchisor]

I meant Dele being one of the best midfielders in the world. Not denying that your academy is decent or that Dele is a fantastic player but getting a bit carried away I think.

Probably better to say 'one of the most valuable midfielders in the world'. We have a rumoured 18% sell on clause, so will be a very big pay day for us (£15m+) when he does move on.

Certainly for his age group (21 and under), he's got to be in the top 10 in europe - think only Leroy Sane, Mbappe and Renato Sanches are better.

FourFourTwo rated Alli the best young player in Europe:
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/fourfourtwos-59-best-under-21-wonderkids-world-10-1?page=0,3

 

[Bobbin']

Probably better to say 'one of the most valuable midfielders in the world'. We have a rumoured 18% sell on clause, so will be a very big pay day for us (£15m+) when he does move on.

Certainly for his age group (21 and under), he's got to be in the top 10 in europe - think only Leroy Sane, Mbappe and Renato Sanches are better.

FourFourTwo rated Alli the best young player in Europe:
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/fourfourtwos-59-best-under-21-wonderkids-world-10-1?page=0,3

Good post. Hard to argue your second paragraph.

 

[Franchisor]

I can have it any way I want. AFC are a continuation of the old club imo. I know some of their fans disagree but there we are. They continue the legacy of the club and keep the traditions. This will be even more evident when they move home.

Aber gas, you can have it any way you want as a fan - but they can't as a club. I have no problem with them as a club, and don't hate them at all, in fact I am very impressed with how quickly they have risen up the football pyramid.

What I don't understand/like is the constant contradiction by them as a club. Sometimes they reference themselves as being the FA Cup winners, yet on several other occasions, they'll say things like they "won promotion to League One for the first time" or other firsts, which Wimbledon already achieved decades before them.

Even other clubs disregard them being the same outfit, here's what Blackburn wrote in a preview about them..

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2017/may/opposition-profile-afc-wimbledon/

"In May 2016, Ardley achieved his first managerial trophy after beating Plymouth Argyle 2-0 in the League Two play-off-final at Wembley, earning AFC Wimbledon a place in League One for the first time in their history."

I know technically that's true in that League One used to be called Division 2/3 (depending on how far back you go), but you get the point.

Also stated formed in 2002.

 

[Hedonist Puncture]

The whole idea of this thread, as in the opening post was not to include history. In MillerWhale's table, Scunny is listed as bigger than MK Dons. Certainly I consider MK Dons to be a bigger club than Scunny, based on factors such as quote attendances, stadium, facilities, infrastructure, budget and quality of squad. The last one of that list I reserve the right to change after the season has finished!

MK Dons are a potential 6 points to me, that's all. If I am in the UK and Scunny is playing down in Milton Keynes, I will go down to watch. I would never boycott the match. I go to watch my football team, not MK Dons. I do appreciate the seating and the cover, after decades of visiting open away terraces around the country. The refreshment facilities are excellent for away supporters and I like the grub there.

I truly HATE MK Dons for having their stadium in a place which is all roundabouts. The town planner who dreamed that crap up needs shooting. I use the A5 to go in and out by car. It's longer but the advantage is it reduces the amount of time I have to spend there.

 

[Franchisor]

I truly HATE MK Dons for having their stadium in a place which is all roundabouts. The town planner who dreamed that crap up needs shooting. I use the A5 to go in and out by car. It's longer but the advantage is it reduces the amount of time I have to spend there.

You and me both - it's an awful, awful place to have a stadium, and the whole city is so uninspiring and sterile. The amount of roundabouts is ridiculous. There are good elements to MK as a city, but it's bloody anonymous (a bit like our stadium's atmosphere most days..).

 

[DippyDon]

I'm actually still annoyed we didn't just build stadium:mk on the old Hockey Stadium site, central, close to the station, near enough to two or three spoons etc.
As for the whole debate on us and Wimbledon it really depends on how you look at it. The AFC fans being from Wimbledon days yeah fair enough, but we have people that were old Wimbledon fans too. If you're on about the actual club though, there is no argument. Wimbledon FC played games at the same time as AFC did. You can argue that Wimbledon was already dead and all that but the fact doesn't change. I have nothing against the club, they've done well to get to this level so quickly.
As for the biggest club in the league, It's got to be between Blackburn and Portsmouth for me. We would be somewhere in mid-table if we factor everything in.

 

[KeithH]

If the title says club and 'franchises' aren't included then why are people still mentioning us in their tables? Be a bit more consistent.

I support my local club, I pay for a season ticket, go to away games, enjoy the football etc. What makes me any different to any other fan of any other club? I'm not a glory hunter supporting Man Utd/Chelsea and living hundreds of miles away. Hardly 'plastic'.

We have a brilliant club here, a fantastic stadium, a fanbase which is constantly growing (and will be a lot bigger with new generations), a VERY good youth academy that has produced one of the best players in the world, and other Prem players like Sheyi Ojo, Brendan Galloway....Bundesliga players like Kevin Danso (also an Austria international).

Like it or not, we're here to stay, and already achieving a lot more than clubs that are decades older than us.

How many established clubs can say in the space of 13 years:

- Produced a current England international, one of the best players in the world and worth probably in the region of £70m+?
- Won the Football League Trophy
- Beat Manchester United 4-0 in the league cup, regarded as one of the biggest upsets ever in that competition
- Promoted to the Championship
- Won League 2
- Frequently voted one of the most family friendly/community-focused clubs in the country
- Produced numerous academy players that have played in the Prem

Not many.

Any team who's tit of a chairman thinks we are racist for flags and songs with come on you whites can fuck right off.

 

[King Kev]

Some excellent posts Keith, remember that ridiculous episode and whinging from that tosser Wee Willy Winkleman at the time.

 

[KeithH]

Some excellent posts Keith, remember that ridiculous episode and whinging from that tosser Wee Willy Winkleman at the time.

All fun an games mate, all fun an games. NEVER make the mistake of taking me seriously!!

 

[K-Win]

I'd say only Charlton, Bradford, Blackburn, Wigan and Portsmouth have better academies

I wouldn't include us in that list. Our academy was pretty much ignored and under-financed for many years (especially when we were in the Prem). Things improved with the trust takeover, and the prospective new owners have committed to upgrading the academy significantly but at the moment I'd say we trail most other clubs in this area.