Champions League 2017/18

[Bilo]

I see your point and I can't talk with the same experience that you can for European football, but what I can say is that ultimately as a defender, you cannot jump in like that in the box, especially not from behind. Sure, he goes down easily but it's a foul all day long, he's shoved the player and then wrapped his leg round him to kick the ball away, it's a dangerous tackle;

If he didn't get the nudge in the back i don't have much doubt that he would have scored.

I agree with your point about the shirt pulling, hard to argue with that. But at the same time, a penalty should be a penalty whether its 1st minute, 60th or 93rd.

For me the only way we can really tackle diving in the box is treating diving the same as the foul in the first place. If you deny a goal scoring opportunity its a red card, if you are caught diving in the box, it's also a red card for trying to cheat one. As soon as the red come out, you'll soon see players stop diving in the box

I hear what you're saying, but I disagree. I don't think it's a dangerous challenge and I think it should be allowed. Also, when you get shoved or tripped your feet don't leave the ground the way his do in those two shots. They're both off the ground ffs! He couldn't wait to go down, and sure the Juve player gives Oliver a call to make and that's his mistake. But he should just let it go. Let common sense prevail.

There's nothing debatable about any of it. It's a penalty, deserved red card, shit end for Buffon. But Oliver has got it all correct. He didnt even need to make the challlenge cos Ascensio miscontrols it on his chest.

The fallout is quite embarrassing for Italy and Italian football. Some accusing Oliver of being bias against Italy. Which is odd given he was officiating in a game in which they were 3 goals up.
Buffon has said Oliver shouldnt be reffing if he cant "understand the importance of some moments". Which is crap really. Basically Buffon was disproportionally incensed because he's retiring and this was his last shot. That doesn't matter to the ref, and he shouldn't show leniency because of it because then he's not impartial.
Many people wanted to see another epic turnaround and are letting that cloud their judgement of the incident.

The bias against Italy thing is kind of weird but it's what they do. They've accused us, Sweden, of being corrupt (Euros 2004) and we're the least corrupt society in the world, whereas they're Italy. Takes one to assume another, I suppose.

I don't believe Uefa/refs would ever knowingly favor Real Madrid but them repeatedly going through with the direct help of contested decisions doesn't help. Last year against Bayern was a farce, and to be fair, it doesn't ever happen against Real or Barca, it's exclusively in their favor and has been for the past decade-ish. Bayern last year, Chelsea in 09, simply doesn't ever happen to them.

I'd argue it has much more to do with how the Spanish giants systematically try to affect the ref in a way no other team do. What they always, in every game, try to create is a feeling that the opposition gets the rub of the green. They do so by diving in situations you see few other teams dive, then be absolutely livid at the ref for not giving it. This, in turn (I think), results in the referee perhaps being more lenient towards giving them the calls he can give them as he has that seed of doubt that he fucked up in any of the previous 20 incidents where Ramos, Varane, Casemiro, Benzema and Isco ran up to him and screamed as if it was the fuck up of all fuck ups. It's so despicably cynical but it works and they will continue to do so for as long as it does.

The bottom line is that, for me, that situation is never in a million years a penalty at the other end. I just don't think it's a conspiracy, just systematic cheating allowed by years of complacency in the area by the authorities exploited by certain teams. When the Clasico comes around it's pretty much always unbearable to watch how the ref is treated, which goes to show it's the only time two teams who use it so frequently and systematically face eachother. There's no other match where that is recreated, at least not on a regular basis. They treat every single call that goes against them in big games like a decisive red card, and it pays off.

 

[SF_]

In real time I thought it looked soft and the Real striker dropped like a sack of shit, but from a different angle its two hands in the back and he wraps his foot around him to kick him in the stomach.

The striker is looking for it but the defender gives the referee no choice.

It's nailed on.

 

[HarvSFC]

Buffon is forgetting that he still had the opportunity to save the penalty (and possibly more in the shoot out) had he, the most experienced player on the pitch not totally lost his head and got sent off. Silly billy.

 

[Bilo]

Well it's better to burn out than to fade away!

 

[Ale18]

I hear what you're saying, but I disagree. I don't think it's a dangerous challenge and I think it should be allowed. Also, when you get shoved or tripped your feet don't leave the ground the way his do in those two shots. They're both off the ground ffs! He couldn't wait to go down, and sure the Juve player gives Oliver a call to make and that's his mistake. But he should just let it go. Let common sense prevail.

I totally agree with you. "Let common sense prevail" is the key.

It's really a pity, we would have seen 30 minutes of beautiful football.

 

[G-Dragon]

Buffon is forgetting that he still had the opportunity to save the penalty (and possibly more in the shoot out) had he, the most experienced player on the pitch not totally lost his head and got sent off. Silly billy.

Let's be honest nobody was saving that penalty.

 

[epic73]

Even the net barely saved it.

 

[SALTIRE]

Who cares, its one twat of a side going out against another.

 

[G-Dragon]

Michael Oliver's brave - and correct - decision to send off Gianluigi Buffon shows he belongs amongst the elite

Glad to see english paper coming out to defend Michael Oliver. As much as I hate Madrid, the ref made the correct decision. Disgusting to see Italian papers and Buffon trying to end the refs career. Lost all respect for Gigi.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Yeah, can understand him being devastated but his behaviour last night and in the aftermath was pretty awful.

There's nothing debatable about any of it. It's a penalty, deserved red card, shit end for Buffon. But Oliver has got it all correct. He didnt even need to make the challlenge cos Ascensio miscontrols it on his chest.

The fallout is quite embarrassing for Italy and Italian football. Some accusing Oliver of being bias against Italy. Which is odd given he was officiating in a game in which they were 3 goals up.
Buffon has said Oliver shouldnt be reffing if he cant "understand the importance of some moments". Which is crap really. Basically Buffon was disproportionally incensed because he's retiring and this was his last shot. That doesn't matter to the ref, and he shouldn't show leniency because of it because then he's not impartial.
Many people wanted to see another epic turnaround and are letting that cloud their judgement of the incident.

Yeah, this. The ref's there to apply the rules, not officiate based on sentiment. If he perceives it to be a foul (and it was), then it's a "common sense" decision, irrespective of whether it takes place in the first minute or the 90th or heightens or spoils our enjoyment of the game.

I hear what you're saying, but I disagree. I don't think it's a dangerous challenge and I think it should be allowed. Also, when you get shoved or tripped your feet don't leave the ground the way his do in those two shots. They're both off the ground ffs! He couldn't wait to go down, and sure the Juve player gives Oliver a call to make and that's his mistake. But he should just let it go. Let common sense prevail.


The bias against Italy thing is kind of weird but it's what they do. They've accused us, Sweden, of being corrupt (Euros 2004) and we're the least corrupt society in the world, whereas they're Italy. Takes one to assume another, I suppose.

I don't believe Uefa/refs would ever knowingly favor Real Madrid but them repeatedly going through with the direct help of contested decisions doesn't help. Last year against Bayern was a farce, and to be fair, it doesn't ever happen against Real or Barca, it's exclusively in their favor and has been for the past decade-ish. Bayern last year, Chelsea in 09, simply doesn't ever happen to them.

I'd argue it has much more to do with how the Spanish giants systematically try to affect the ref in a way no other team do. What they always, in every game, try to create is a feeling that the opposition gets the rub of the green. They do so by diving in situations you see few other teams dive, then be absolutely livid at the ref for not giving it. This, in turn (I think), results in the referee perhaps being more lenient towards giving them the calls he can give them as he has that seed of doubt that he fucked up in any of the previous 20 incidents where Ramos, Varane, Casemiro, Benzema and Isco ran up to him and screamed as if it was the fuck up of all fuck ups. It's so despicably cynical but it works and they will continue to do so for as long as it does.

The bottom line is that, for me, that situation is never in a million years a penalty at the other end. I just don't think it's a conspiracy, just systematic cheating allowed by years of complacency in the area by the authorities exploited by certain teams. When the Clasico comes around it's pretty much always unbearable to watch how the ref is treated, which goes to show it's the only time two teams who use it so frequently and systematically face eachother. There's no other match where that is recreated, at least not on a regular basis. They treat every single call that goes against them in big games like a decisive red card, and it pays off.

I agree with your assessment of the Spanish giants and the observation that Clasicos can be dreadful to watch as a result.

Not sure Juve have much of a leg to stand of when it comes to unduly influencing and intimidating referees though - it's quite an amusing illustration of how despised Real Madrid are when we're all longing for one of the most provenly corrupt clubs in the game to prevail against them!

 

[Liam_SWFC]

I fancy Liverpool to beat Real or Bayern over two legs more than Roma, that's the kind of tie they'll probably balls up.

 

[Bilo]

I completely agree.

 

[St. Juste]

Whilst it certainly would have been excellent for Juventus to go through, the penalty and red card are both completely the correct decision.

However, those who are saying they lost all respect for Buffon - Zidanes offence was far worse (and he had a history of it too).

I don't actually think Buffon will retire but, if he does, he will rightly go down as a legend of the game regardless of his actions in this game.

 

[Bilo]

Bayern and Real will all be desperate to get Liverpool

According to their forum polls, both sets of fans want us the least. Haven't checked Roma but can imagine they want us the most, and it all makes sense.

Which is fine to be fair if I were Real/Bayern I'd want us in a final rather than over two legs.

 

[Pagnell]

I don't believe Liverpool have received enough respect from certain people for defeating the Arabian PR Exercise 5-1 over two legs. That isn't even close - an absolute resounding victory if you like even taking into account a couple of contentious decisions. Imagine if Real or Barcelona had done that with the same scoreline. The likes of Hugh would be on here claiming it was proof that they're in a different league in terms of quality and that that La Liga is far better than the Premiership.

 

[Bilo]

Yeah well Hugh is the kind of poster who sort of adapts his opinions to his personal agenda. Like a politician, he is completely unable to differentiate between what he thinks and what he wants. He adapts the former to the latter.

Aside from him I'd say one problem is that through our style of play, if we have a good game the opposition invariably looks absolute dogshit. Also, on this forum, we put every victory down to the losing side being dogshit. And if we smash Real and then batter Bayern in the final, it'll be because both sides were, you guessed it, dogshit.

I don't mind though we're culprits of the same pattern and I think it's what makes this forum unique, me. 20 million posts and no credit given to anyone.

 

[Pagnell]

So, we get Roma, and with the second leg at Anfield. Fantastic, couldn't have asked for it to go better really. Won't be easy, but surely were favourites to get through to the final.

EDIT - that will teach me to listen to my brother without checking first. First leg at Anfield. Oh well, didn't harm us against City.

 

[JimJams]

No, you get Roma with the first leg at Anfield.

 

[Bilo]

Roma is the team I least wanted to draw for two reasons.

1. It'll be much less satisfying to knock them out than Real or Bayern.
2. They're very tactically astute and won't come at us unless they have to, which makes the first leg at Anfield so very important. We absolutely have to go to Rome with a lead, and Roma will probably park the bus completely. And looking at both legs against Barcelona, they're very capable of doing that.

Urgh. Why couldn't we just draw Real

 

[Bilo]

Also, regarding starting or ending at home, it makes no difference whatsoever, statistically:

https://www.pinnacle.com/en/betting...eague-knockout-stage-betting/4GK2UWNJPUCX5FU7

 

[Dirk]

Damn, fucking Real.

 

[Gassy]

I don't believe Liverpool have received enough respect from certain people for defeating the Arabian PR Exercise 5-1 over two legs. That isn't even close - an absolute resounding victory if you like even taking into account a couple of contentious decisions. Imagine if Real or Barcelona had done that with the same scoreline. The likes of Hugh would be on here claiming it was proof that they're in a different league in terms of quality and that that La Liga is far better than the Premiership.

Probably because Barcelona are walking away with the league and Madrid have won the CL something like 3/4 times with Barca taking the other. Liverpool however, sit 3rd, joint 4th in the PL.

I get what you're saying, but you can't expect after 2 good games against City in the cup to be compared with Real Madrid.

Shame you got Roma, bloody Italian defending is gonna be difficult to break down. But if anyone can do it, Klopp can. I was hoping you'd get Madrid in the semi's as tbh, I can't see anyone beating Madrid in the final. However, over 2 legs at Anfield? It could definitely happen.

I have to say thanks to Liverpool though, I usually can't stand the CL (i rarely ever watch), its normally so boring, all the same with barely anything exciting. This year (coupled with a few others) it's been a joy to follow the games. Nice to have an English club back competing

 

[Pagnell]

If get with that if it weren't for the fact that, domestically, Real are no better than we are this season. Arguably worse given the cost of their team.

Also, I'm not expecting to be directly compared to either.

 

[Gassy]

Sure, but it's pretty hard to ignore Madrid who've won the CL so many times recently

While you've probably not got the recognition you deserve, ultimately when teams like Madrid beat anyone they will always get people saying 'that's why they're champions'

Also, if Madrid didn't win in the last second, no one would be talking about them. If they drew the 2nd leg 0-0, no one would even comment (like with Bayern). It's only because despite playing terribly, they still managed to get through

 

[SALTIRE]

Roma it is then. Mixed emotions on it. I didn't fancy us against Real over two legs though others have said they'd be harder to beat in a final as it's one chance then. Roma though won't be easy, we have to take a good lead back to theirs; I know it didn't do Barca much good that, but we are a better side than this Barca imo. We can't take these lightly, and I hope Mo will be focused playing against his former side.

 

[Bilo]

we are a better side than this Barca imo

We most certainly are not, but rather very capable of performing better than the shitshow they put up against Roma in the second leg. Important difference stop saying stuff like this man

 

[epic73]

Why are Liverpool fans going on about how they'd rather get Real/Bayern than Roma? I've even seen a couple of people say that Roma would have the highest chance of beating them out of those three teams.

 

[epic73]

Imagine Real beating the French, Italian, and German champions to face a team captained by Jordan Henderson.

 

[Bilo]

Why are Liverpool fans going on about how they'd rather get Real/Bayern than Roma? I've even seen a couple of people say that Roma would have the highest chance of beating them out of those three teams.

Because looking at our record under Klopp, we fair well against teams that try to attack us and not so well against teams that sit back, as Roma are more likely to do. This correlation is much stronger than the relative strengths of the opponents. And given that neither of Real and Bayern have been that impressive, they'd suit us better.

Plus, everybody wants Roma to go far and it'll be less satisfying if we knock them out.

Imagine Real beating the French, Italian, and German champions to face a team captained by Jordan Henderson.

This reeks of jealousy. I genuinely wouldn't know who your captain is without googling it, such is your current lack of identity as a club.

 

[Bilo]

Look at that it's Valencia I'd have guessed Carrick tbh