Checkatrade Trophy 2018/19 Thread

[StrangelyBrown]

I think it fits the perception most have of Lincoln fans being gloryhunters.

Blimey this is older than King Tut.

You mean the reality that success creates interest which creates more fans- Carlisle should try it sometime, you'll see it works.

 

[Guernica]

I don’t understand why Cowley suddenly does not want to take the cups seriously, Lincoln have more strength in depth and better quality from last season.

He should go for it on fronts really.

To be fair we made seven changes ourselves but it was still a strong squad, probably made stronger due to our Saturday game being postponed.

This season we do have more quality and more depth and have a much better chance of securing promotion than last season. I'm not saying we're paupers but Mansfield have a much stronger budget leading to much more experienced depth than we do. E.g. We had a 17 year old and Spanish player signed from Heybridge Swifts as in our CM against much more experienced CM's. We were also missing Wharton, Green and Wilson which weakened our team Tues night.

For me, DC has made the right call, we do have a strong chance of promotion therefore all our concentration and energy should go into that.

 

[Conker]

This season we do have more quality and more depth and have a much better chance of securing promotion than last season. I'm not saying we're paupers but Mansfield have a much stronger budget leading to much more experienced depth than we do. E.g. We had a 17 year old and Spanish player signed from Heybridge Swifts as in our CM against much more experienced CM's. We were also missing Wharton, Green and Wilson which weakened our team Tues night.

For me, DC has made the right call, we do have a strong chance of promotion therefore all our concentration and energy should go into that.

That's a bit unfair, unintentionally I'm sure.

We are one injury away in defence and upfront from being in a bit of a tricky situation, but in midfield we do have loads of depth. Gibbens who started against Lincoln, only made his professional debut in defence against Macclesfield and we had zero defenders on the bench.

One injury upfront and our only back-up is a youth product who has one made one professional apperance from the bench too.

The fact we do not have a game on saturday did make the squad stronger but it was still seven changes.

 

[immariner]

I think it shows that at the moment, a sizeable proportion of the match-attending Lincoln fans aren't, dare I say it, proper football fans. I had two friends posting on fb that they were there. Before last season I don't think they'd been to Sincil Bank in their lives, one being a ManUre lemming and the other not even a football fan, both in their 30s. When I tried to explain how it was an insult to our proud football clubs that we were playing glorified Prem (and CHAMPIONSHIP!) youth teams in "competitive" fixtures, simply for a couple of peanuts; well, I may aswell have been speaking Greek. I can see why Godsgift was embarrassed.

 

[Guernica]

What is a proper football fan?

 

[Guernica]

That's a bit unfair, unintentionally I'm sure.

We are one injury away in defence and upfront from being in a bit of a tricky situation, but in midfield we do have loads of depth. Gibbens who started against Lincoln, only made his professional debut in defence against Macclesfield and we had zero defenders on the bench.

One injury upfront and our only back-up is a youth product who has one made one professional apperance from the bench too.

The fact we do not have a game on saturday did make the squad stronger but it was still seven changes.

Not really, on that showing, Mansfield stiffs were more experienced than our stiffs.

 

[StrangelyBrown]

I think it shows that at the moment, a sizeable proportion of the match-attending Lincoln fans aren't, dare I say it, proper football fans. I had two friends posting on fb that they were there. Before last season I don't think they'd been to Sincil Bank in their lives, one being a ManUre lemming and the other not even a football fan, both in their 30s. When I tried to explain how it was an insult to our proud football clubs that we were playing glorified Prem (and CHAMPIONSHIP!) youth teams in "competitive" fixtures, simply for a couple of peanuts; well, I may aswell have been speaking Greek. I can see why Godsgift was embarrassed.

Ok- I can't argue with the arrogance around "proper" football fans. After all, my wife didn't go to football during the glory days of being an '80s fan (hemmed into cages, running battles home and away, "get yer t*ts out for the lads" being the mildest of the abuse hurled at policewomen, stadiums falling down around our ears) so she can't be a proper fan. She wouldn't understand football "passion" would she?.

I was there Tuesday night at the Bank- clear it was going to be a squad game but I got to see

Luque, Mensah and Gordon full home debuts for the Imps
Rhead first goal of this season
Brilliant backheel megs from Gordon which took out 2 MTFC players (worth the entrance fee alone)
Cracking strike from MTFC Walker for their second goal
And I got to see several Imps players growing and maturing (Chapman particularly)

Cost me a tenner. Take the above and don't tell me who is a "proper" fan cos someone who is genuinely keen to see team players develop and grow, watch new players start their time with LCFC and take any opportunity to see their team is more of a "proper" fan than someone who picks and choses when they go as it suits.

 

[The Jovial Forester]

The objection's not about it being a squad game or tin pot - I go and watch us in the county cup ffs - it's about giving credibility to a format clearly designed to normalise premier youth and reserve teams getting a shoe-in to league football.

 

[PaulHaddock]

Someone’s rattled

 

[StrangelyBrown]

The objection's not about it being a squad game or tin pot - I go and watch us in the county cup ffs - it's about giving credibility to a format clearly designed to normalise premier youth and reserve teams getting a shoe-in to league football.

Different debate to "proper" fans but I don't see, in any way, how the leap from U21s in a lower league cup competition to shoeing them into EFL1 or 2?

Unless our owners vote for it!

 

[shoddycollins]

I don't doubt that.
I'd guess we probably have something like 3000 regular supporters through thin and thinner, and maybe another 1000 that are occasional visitors. That leaves around 4000 "glory hunters", plastics, call them whatever you like.
Out of interest, which category would you think the bulk of those that went on Tuesday fell into? I have no clue myself, other than my mate (S/T holder of over 20 years) went simply because he wanted to see a game.

I think there would be a fair few, like who are attending other clubs games who regularly attend through thick and thin but aren't overly bothered or even aware about the politics of football. I think most of those Lincoln fans would be the 'plastics' so to speak though, the ones who weren't all that bothered about the local football club until they started seeing all this stuff about how well they were doing. I'm assuming this just because most clubs are seeing a huge drop-off in attendances for this competition, around a quarter of what would be normal, and also most clubs don't have anything near the buzz around them, or recent increase in attendances Lincoln have seen. So, a lot of new fans and also a lot of fans going to matches in a competition that most who care deeply about lower league football are dead against, leads me to believe it's mostly the same group. Doesn't help that you won the fucking thing last year though, why you have to go and do that? Amateurs.

 

[shoddycollins]

Different debate to "proper" fans but I don't see, in any way, how the leap from U21s in a lower league cup competition to shoeing them into EFL1 or 2?

Unless our owners vote for it!

You might have missed the League 3 debate because you were in the Conference when it happened, but the EFL did indeed propose to have top flight B teams competing in the bottom league of a redesigned league system, along with a lot of arguments about how well it worked in other countries, and how well the national teams were doing of said countries, so it was clear that they felt in the long run, B teams should be competing at all levels. That gets knocked back and less than a year later they propose this change to the Football League Trophy and we're supposed to believe that one isn't connected to the other.

I'm pretty sure, Shaun Harvey and his mates don't believe that the two or three games academy players will get in this competition will make any difference at all to their development. Rather, like Jovial Forester has said, it's a way to make playing academy sides seem normal and acceptable and to gather evidence that it won't affect attendances so that they can make a stronger case next time they try and introduce B teams.

The owners of League clubs don't really have much of a say when the time comes that the powers that be want this to happen. They may or may not want to vote against it, and many do make a principled stand, but the power of the top clubs is such that they can make our club's financial stability dependent on the bones they toss us and then we can't oppose them.

 

[Davidimp]

A lot of our fans are kids who've been hooked on a local team done good, surely the lifeblood of football?
My daughter has hardly missed a home game since the Cowleys arrived she really enjoys going now before that she wasn't so keen.

 

[shoddycollins]

A lot of our fans are kids who've been hooked on a local team done good, surely the lifeblood of football?
My daughter has hardly missed a home game since the Cowleys arrived she really enjoys going now before that she wasn't so keen.

The Cowleys are every teenage girl (in Lincoln)'s dream boat. Rawr!

 

[LadyWomble]

If ever you needed an example as to why this competition is a joke, on Tuesday Sunderland were at home to Stoke U21's. In a competitive game. It was even live on TalkSport ffs. Never thought I'd see that happen in this country. What an embarrassment.

It's karma for Sunderland failing to respect a lower league competition. Last season (as a cat 1 academy), they entered their U21s in this tinpot joke and came bottom of their group. This season, their 1st team has the indignity of playing Stoke's yoof. I won't be shedding any tears for them.

 

[StrangelyBrown]

You might have missed the League 3 debate because you were in the Conference when it happened, but the EFL did indeed propose to have top flight B teams competing in the bottom league of a redesigned league system, along with a lot of arguments about how well it worked in other countries, and how well the national teams were doing of said countries, so it was clear that they felt in the long run, B teams should be competing at all levels. That gets knocked back and less than a year later they propose this change to the Football League Trophy and we're supposed to believe that one isn't connected to the other.

I'm pretty sure, Shaun Harvey and his mates don't believe that the two or three games academy players will get in this competition will make any difference at all to their development. Rather, like Jovial Forester has said, it's a way to make playing academy sides seem normal and acceptable and to gather evidence that it won't affect attendances so that they can make a stronger case next time they try and introduce B teams.

The owners of League clubs don't really have much of a say when the time comes that the powers that be want this to happen. They may or may not want to vote against it, and many do make a principled stand, but the power of the top clubs is such that they can make our club's financial stability dependent on the bones they toss us and then we can't oppose them.

I think there would be a fair few, like who are attending other clubs games who regularly attend through thick and thin but aren't overly bothered or even aware about the politics of football. I think most of those Lincoln fans would be the 'plastics' so to speak though, the ones who weren't all that bothered about the local football club until they started seeing all this stuff about how well they were doing. I'm assuming this just because most clubs are seeing a huge drop-off in attendances for this competition, around a quarter of what would be normal, and also most clubs don't have anything near the buzz around them, or recent increase in attendances Lincoln have seen. So, a lot of new fans and also a lot of fans going to matches in a competition that most who care deeply about lower league football are dead against, leads me to believe it's mostly the same group. Doesn't help that you won the fucking thing last year though, why you have to go and do that? Amateurs.

Don't worry- we won't be repeating last years cup success so an U21 team can win it and implode the entire competition.

 

[immariner]

What is a proper football fan?

Ohhh I could easily say a proper fan is one who realises that it is an affront to the history of their club and the football league to have to play a competitive fixture against the little-older-than-kids sides of the richest, bloated, arrogant few, merely for a couple of extra shekels. But that would be mean, so I won't. Regardless of whether you give any credence or not to the idea that it is simply a way to normalise the introduction of academy or B teams in the football league system, that alone should boil your piss. My football club is worth more than that, you should think yours is too.

Or I could say it is those who have been with their club through the bad times, at least even just a bit, and not because they're a two team wanker (whose other side happen to be currently shite) and out for a hollow joyride.
Call me a hopeless romantic, a deluded purist, call me arrogant, it doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is the integrity of my football club. Lower league football without self respect is nothing.

 

[GTFCfish]

What is a proper football fan?

A fan who doesn’t only go to watch his team when they suddenly start winning would be my guess.

 

[Chris FGR]

A lot of our fans are kids who've been hooked on a local team done good, surely the lifeblood of football?
My daughter has hardly missed a home game since the Cowleys arrived she really enjoys going now before that she wasn't so keen.

Always good to see kids keen on supporting their local club tbf. You've definitely created a buzz around the place so fair play on that.

 

[Conker]

Not really, on that showing, Mansfield stiffs were more experienced than our stiffs.

If you mean we were better then yeah, no argument here, clearly the better side from what I’ve heard.

 

[Plumbob]

The owners of League clubs don't really have much of a say when the time comes that the powers that be want this to happen. They may or may not want to vote against it, and many do make a principled stand, but the power of the top clubs is such that they can make our club's financial stability dependent on the bones they toss us and then we can't oppose them.

And there is the crux of the entire situation. We; the smaller clubs, will ultimately have little choice in the matter. Any boycott, as admirable as some may think it is, will not matter a jot to Shaun Harvey and his pals, and the result of whatever they intend.
If they want U21/23 sides in our League (I'm pretty confident nobody on here does), then it will happen. Then your choices are, continue to boycott any game they are involved in, support your side to try and escape upwards, take the drop downwards, start watching rugby, or cave in to what some think is an inevitability.

 

[Chris FGR]

It's the selfish big clubs that are fucking it up for everyone else. Hoard as many of the talented English kids as they can, often poaching them off lower league clubs for peanuts and then have no space for them in their first team squad cos they've already filled them with about 40 foreigners most of who never play either. It fucks up the national team cos a lot of these kids don't get the chance to properly develop.

And now their solution is to fuck over the lower leagues yet again by forcing them to play competitive games against their kids.

All big clubs academies should be shut down. They don't need them. Let the smaller clubs develop the talent and then sell them on to the big clubs for big money when they're ready to actually play in the Prem, like Dele Alli when he left MK Dons.

 

[GodsGift]

And there is the crux of the entire situation. We; the smaller clubs, will ultimately have little choice in the matter. Any boycott, as admirable as some may think it is, will not matter a jot to Shaun Harvey and his pals, and the result of whatever they intend.
If they want U21/23 sides in our League (I'm pretty confident nobody on here does), then it will happen. Then your choices are, continue to boycott any game they are involved in, support your side to try and escape upwards, take the drop downwards, start watching rugby, or cave in to what some think is an inevitability.

Ah, I was waiting until the "we can't affect change so we might as well keep going" line was trotted out.

Tell that to Blackpool fans who continue to boycott their games in protest against convicted rapist, proven asset stripper and regular suer of fans Owen Oyston. Would you continue to give your money to someone like him if he was in charge at Sincil Bank?

 

[Deepcut Cobbler]

It's the selfish big clubs that are fucking it up for everyone else. Hoard as many of the talented English kids as they can, often poaching them off lower league clubs for peanuts and then have no space for them in their first team squad cos they've already filled them with about 40 foreigners most of who never play either. It fucks up the national team cos a lot of these kids don't get the chance to properly develop.

And now their solution is to fuck over the lower leagues yet again by forcing them to play competitive games against their kids.

All big clubs academies should be shut down. They don't need them. Let the smaller clubs develop the talent and then sell them on to the big clubs for big money when they're ready to actually play in the Prem, like Dele Alli when he left MK Dons.

As in the Welsh young 17 year old Ethan Ampadu last night, when will he see regular first team football at Chelsea if at all?

 

[shoddycollins]

It's the selfish big clubs that are fucking it up for everyone else. Hoard as many of the talented English kids as they can, often poaching them off lower league clubs for peanuts and then have no space for them in their first team squad cos they've already filled them with about 40 foreigners most of who never play either. It fucks up the national team cos a lot of these kids don't get the chance to properly develop.

And now their solution is to fuck over the lower leagues yet again by forcing them to play competitive games against their kids.

All big clubs academies should be shut down. They don't need them. Let the smaller clubs develop the talent and then sell them on to the big clubs for big money when they're ready to actually play in the Prem, like Dele Alli when he left MK Dons.

Our match summariser on BBCRC, Chris Lumsdon, had quite a lot to say about top-flight academies during our game against Morecambe, and he should know, he came through Sunderland's. A couple of our players, George Glendon and Macaulay Gillesphey came through top flight academies, Man City and Newcastle respectively, and aged 23 and 22 they're still at that stage in their career where they haven't played much football. They both scored, but they also committed a combination of errors which led to a Morecambe goal, which Lumsdon described as academy football and went on to have a go at the academy systems of the top flight clubs.

Gillesphey had spend a season and a half on loan with us, and really developed as promising defender during that time. He was also offere a new contract by Newcastle as they dropped into the Championship and the following season in the Premiership they promoted him to their senior squad rather than send him on loan again. For a season then he played no football, played in their academy again, and I think he was an unused substitute in a handful of games, and that was that. At the end of that season he was released. What on earth was the point of that? They basically just took a season off him because they thought there was an outside chance he might prove useful.

We snapped him up and now he has a two year contract with the only club he's ever played for, which is good. Early signs are that he's picked up some bad habits in that season back in their academy. I'm sure we'll develop him well as he has bags of talent, but can't help but think he'd have been way further forward in his development had he come to us in the first place. Newcastle will have taught him well, this isn't a go at the quality of training their academy offers, but 22 is too old to be leaving academy football, if he hadn't been sent on loan like many of his peers in their academy haven't, then he'd still be yet to make his first senior appearance, at 22!

Ideally, we would be seen by the FA as a valuable asset in player development, not just a resource to be used either through the loan system or the Checkatrade trophy to give young players a taste of competitive football. It would be great if we could work with the top-flight clubs allowing us to give players the benefits of top coaching at their academies while they are still contracted to us and more likely to mature into the first team, but even without that we probably do more for player development than they do.

One possibility would be to limit the number of players over the age of 20 who aren't playing matches that those clubs can have. The rest can come to us. They can still have the benefit of attending a top-flight academy, but they'll be our players and their use of nearby top-flight clubs' facilities will be for them and also for us to decide. They won't be attached to any one top-flight club, they'll just be using their facilities, they can visit more than one, they can spend as much time as they want there. Those top-flight clubs who open up their academies in this way will get benefits for doing that, maybe a percentage of the fee when the player is sold, depending on how much time they gave to that player's development. They can then try and sell their academies to us, encourage us to send our most promising players there.

 

[Plumbob]

Ah, I was waiting until the "we can't affect change so we might as well keep going" line was trotted out.

Tell that to Blackpool fans who continue to boycott their games in protest against convicted rapist, proven asset stripper and regular suer of fans Owen Oyston. Would you continue to give your money to someone like him if he was in charge at Sincil Bank?

As I said, personal choices. No I wouldn't give Oyston my money, but that is a different beast to the PL completely ruling English football and dictating what happens to ALL lower league clubs through money alone. Shoddy basically said it was nigh on inevitable, so make a choice and stand by it, don't be embarrassed of your club because someone else doesn't agree with you.

 

[shoddycollins]

And there is the crux of the entire situation. We; the smaller clubs, will ultimately have little choice in the matter. Any boycott, as admirable as some may think it is, will not matter a jot to Shaun Harvey and his pals, and the result of whatever they intend.
If they want U21/23 sides in our League (I'm pretty confident nobody on here does), then it will happen. Then your choices are, continue to boycott any game they are involved in, support your side to try and escape upwards, take the drop downwards, start watching rugby, or cave in to what some think is an inevitability.

We don't if we cave now. The media however regularly report on how dismal the crowds are in this competition, even Sky News in the first season it was run this way. The more negative press the competition gets, the better. We may not be able to stand up to the Premier League if they have decided what they want, but we can try and change their minds by showing them how few other people in the country want that and how pointless it even is.

 

[Davidimp]

If you mean we were better then yeah, no argument here, clearly the better side from what I’ve heard.

The usual 'Easy win' for you guys at our place....

 

[GodsGift]

As I said, personal choices. No I wouldn't give Oyston my money, but that is a different beast to the PL completely ruling English football and dictating what happens to ALL lower league clubs through money alone. Shoddy basically said it was nigh on inevitable, so make a choice and stand by it, don't be embarrassed of your club because someone else doesn't agree with you.

I'm alright thanks, I think I'll continue to be embarrassed. After all, we got the second highest crowd on Tuesday, only Sunderland getting higher (7k down from 32k for their last league game). We got 3,000 more than Charlton and 2,000 more than Portsmouth for god's sake.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

This competition is obviously an affront to all fair minded people. I tried to talk to loads of Lincoln fans last season about the whys and wherefores, but they were either dismissive of the possibility of B Teams getting in the league, or they just didn’t care. I think being in non league when the main debate was happening made many oblivious to the issue.

Andy Holt’s thread on Twitter about the use of iFollow this weekend is a little insight for those who are confident that the EFL will effectively stand up for the smaller clubs.