Coronavirus and League 2

[Indian Dan]

You can only deal with what’s in front of you right now. No good harping on about last year. Last season wouldn’t have bothered me in the slightest - we were going nowhere. Likewise, I doubt the position you were in with9/10 games to go you wouldn’t have wanted it voided.

 

[Deepcut Cobbler]

Fed up with listening or reading in the media all of those concerned about when football will start again because it'll financially 'hurt' some clubs. No mention of when it'll be safe and in the public interest to do so.
For heavens sake, they are ignoring the fact that there are hundreds of people dying daily, many thousands putting their lives on the line daily and every hour in order to treat those at deaths door, both attempting to minimise and/or prevent the virus spreading.
There are a lot more important things than football. The criteria to ensure that we return to a safe and secure environment needs to be achieved completely prior to any activity that diverts attention and resources elsewhere...

 

[Boletus Edulis]

Fed up with listening or reading in the media all of those concerned about when football will start again because it'll financially 'hurt' some clubs. No mention of when it'll be safe and in the public interest to do so.
For heavens sake, they are ignoring the fact that there are hundreds of people dying daily, many thousands putting their lives on the line daily and every hour in order to treat those at deaths door, both attempting to minimise and/or prevent the virus spreading.
There are a lot more important things than football. The criteria to ensure that we return to a safe and secure environment needs to be achieved completely prior to any activity that diverts attention and resources elsewhere...

Agree 100%, which is why the 8 team competition is the latest Public Affairs tactic designed to make the case to the Government that it is a special case. It is not.

 

[LS Bantam]

The top sides wanting a proper conclusion is a given. Out of curiosity, based on the idea of promoting teams as things stand, I had a look at previous years at the time of the leagues suspension and in 70% of seasons the top 3 at this stage weren’t the top 3 after 46 games.

 

[valefan16]

The top sides wanting a proper conclusion is a given. Out of curiosity, based on the idea of promoting teams as things stand, I had a look at previous years at the time of the leagues suspension and in 70% of seasons the top 3 at this stage weren’t the top 3 after 46 games.

This is the issue with PPG of course the top three want that as they get a promotion that was far from guaranteed, imagine they’d want it without finishing the league ideally as they get the promotion without risk of losing it.

The PPG formula is weak though because it literally changes week on week... Vale, Northampton and Colchester have been swapping positions for a few weeks prior between them and each week the PPG would give a different outcome so take that into the promotion race to decide and it’s incredibly messy because only five points (and the team five behind has a game in hand) separate the top 5... Cheltenham in 5th with a game in hand had been in superb form and will have felt confident of taking one spot and how much it fluctuates just weeks before it was a case of who joins Exeter and Swindon only for Exeter to drop like a stone.

It must be finished when the time allows ideally. You have to earn promotions and earn survivals. If it doesn’t then start again or find a footballing solution.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

The top sides wanting a proper conclusion is a given. Out of curiosity, based on the idea of promoting teams as things stand, I had a look at previous years at the time of the leagues suspension and in 70% of seasons the top 3 at this stage weren’t the top 3 after 46 games.

I'm sure everyone wants the season to be concluded on the pitch if it's a possibility regardless of where we are in the league. It's just what if that's not possible?

Even if PPG benefits us now I'd rather earn it. But if it's between PPG and void I'll end up wanting PPG and I'm sure all at the top would too.

 

[Indian Dan]

The more I hear about how and when the lockdown may end, the more I’m convinced that football won’t return with fans for a very long time. Whether football can exist without fans outside of the PL I very much doubt.

Social distancing is set to become ‘normal’ practice for the foreseeable future so that definitely knocks the idea of football with fans on the head. Just how many clubs could survive, say, no return until the start of what would be the 21/22 season in August next year I hate to think.

Even if clubs are mothballed until then where are all the players going to come from and the clubs will have absolutely zero cash.

Whether this season is ended on ppg or just plain voided it won’t make a jot of difference. I reckon we’re all fucked.

 

[Chris FGR]

A lot of players are going to need to be looking at other careers options if that happens.

 

[Boletus Edulis]

The more I hear about how and when the lockdown may end, the more I’m convinced that football won’t return with fans for a very long time. Whether football can exist without fans outside of the PL I very much doubt.

Social distancing is set to become ‘normal’ practice for the foreseeable future so that definitely knocks the idea of football with fans on the head. Just how many clubs could survive, say, no return until the start of what would be the 21/22 season in August next year I hate to think.

Even if clubs are mothballed until then where are all the players going to come from and the clubs will have absolutely zero cash.

Whether this season is ended on ppg or just plain voided it won’t make a jot of difference. I reckon we’re all fucked.

I too assume that there won’t be any football in front of fans until 21/22. The question is will there be a season 20/21 behind closed doors. This seems dependent on the amount of testing available and Government policy on where entertainments are in opening up the economy. And if there is, will the 19/20 season start then or just have been PPG or voided? Discussions about play-offs, eight teams etc are not really part of the bigger picture. Until there is an effective, widely available vaccine football is like a gnats bite on an elephant.

I’d love to be able to go to matches again with my family, it is part of who we are. But I am may have a long wait.

 

[Indian Dan]

I think the present season will be finalised on ppg - anything else is just blowing smoke up people’s arses.

Some PL clubs could survive for prolonged BCD games - but not all.

Clubs outside the PL would struggle financially to stay open to play BCD games - vast majority will not survive in their present form for very long anyway.

I can see some clubs reforming as part time clubs and any sort of league structure starting from scratch. I’d presume the more ‘attractive’ PL clubs would have fucked off to join some European Super League to keep the TV money rolling in. I’d expect fans’ interest in football to wane to the extent nobody gives a rat’s arse eventually.

 

[Super_horns]

You can sense they are desperate to play but can you see this BCD stuff going off without any hitch ?

Then there are the players- will they want to play in such circumstances or can they be trusted to behave in hotels together for weeks .?

 

[WhiteRussian]

BCD seems to me pretty much a total waste of time and will lose the clubs thousands each time they play a match. Even if all the matches were streamed in the bottom 2 divisions who would pay for it and how much. I might be tempted if it was a few quid but I certainly wouldn't pay match day prices to watch a match on TV with no atmosphere. There certainly wouldn't be enough takers spending the sort of money needed to keep the club going.

Another thing that is a problem for us and I expect many other clubs, is that we are reliant on other monetary streams to finance the club. We have concerts, conferences, and the hotel at the stadium and all that is gone as well.

Unless the furlough scheme carries on for football clubs while they can't have paying supporters through the turnstiles even basic maintenance at the stadiums will suffer.

It's a right load of crap whatever way you try and look at it.

 

[Indian Dan]

I see Colchester have told their OOC players who they wanted to give a new contract to have been told that they have withdrawn all offers.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

As much as we like to think that football is all about the fans, the players and staff come first as this is their livelihood.

Even if football resumes, a lot of staff will be redundant. No tickets to sell, no food to sell, no fans to steward, no pints to pour. But for professional players and staff to go a year without football? It's a pretty hard thing to do that is.

BCD when it's safe is the best of a bad bunch of far from ideal options. Clubs lose money anyway by stretching beyond their means. But Sky, BT, the PL and the FL aren't going to make payments for no football. So, if BCD football went ahead, at least clubs would get some money. It's a shame for clubs who are reliant on external revenue streams as the MK fan has just reminded us all of too. But what are the players going to do? Jack in football for a year and work nights at Asda? Some would easily adjust to everyday jobs, but for others, football has been their lives and they know no better. Some people may say tough or say that that day will come for those players one day, but in a time when we can't even go to work (unless a key worker) ourselves? It's a really tough situation.

This Summer gives clubs a chance to cut costs (like Colchester have been the first to announce) and to start to get player wage expenditure down. Sadly, I expect that's the last we've seen of stalwarts like Paul Green, Chris Porter, Nicky Hunt and James Jones. I feel Porter and Jones may have stayed on in a more ideal world. But all clubs will need to take such tough measures. Some may announce early like Robbie Cowling has done today, but I expect clubs to remain coy on this situation until either the EFL admits the season can't resume or closer to the 1st July if it does, whichever instance occurs.

If BCD is the route we go down though, Ifollow will need a revamp. Only home clubs can show games to stop smaller clubs from being out of pocket, ST holders get free access to all home club streams, streams must be £10 per game and no more than that. All clubs will lose out on money, there's no doubt about that, but it's best to lose a little rather than lose a lot. Some may not watch the game without the fans, and that's fine, it's to their taste. But in a less than ideal world, if BCD football becomes the way, then our clubs need our support, however much we don't like the situation.

 

[dedwardp]

https://www.cu-fc.com/news/2020/april/latest-statement-from-the-chairman/

Here's the statement referred to if anyone has any interest.

 

[Indian Dan]

Not only is it a dreadful situation for players now, what money are clubs going to have to re-sign players when/if football restarts. It’ll be peanuts compared to now that’s for sure.

If owners can hang on in there they could well have a business that’s likely to have huge surge in support with vastly reduced overheads (players wages).

 

[Boletus Edulis]

Trinidad, pretty much agree with what you say (you too ID)

I suspect that there will be huge pressure from Tv, EFL and the clubs for next season to be played behind closed doors if, as most of us assume, there can’t be fans in attendance.

There will then be a bun fight over allocation of this. With Ifollow at present I am pretty sure about £7-8 of the ten pounds I spent on one midweek game went to Argo, and the rest to the TV company. This was fine because we were the home team. Had we been the away team all of that £7-8 would still have come to Argo because I booked it through the club website. So, if we are playing Carlisle or Southend away, if I am allowed ifollow who gets the money? Can I have a home and away season ticket that allows me to watch all the games (and is it ifollow or sky). Again what is the break down of monies received?

I note that in November we appointed Trevor East as a Board Member. As a former Deputy MD at Sky and Head of ITV sport I suspect we will be sending him in it bat for us on the broadcasting revenue issue. Time to earn your free pasties Trev.

Players salaries are bound to be a lot lower. I suspect a lot of teams may say no thanks to the sound journeyman players aged over thirty, and take more youngsters on.

I still keep coming back to the point of how many clubs will actually be able to line up when it all restarts.

 

[Boletus Edulis]

[QUOTE="Indian Dan, post: 960909, member: 401"If owners can hang on in there they could well have a business that’s likely to have huge surge in support with vastly reduced overheads (players wages).[/QUOTE]
Simon Hallett is suggesting that once all the debt has an effect we will be very competitive. He seemed to be suggesting not just with league two and one sides either. He was very bullish because the only debt we have is a small bit with the local council. Whereas he implied that many other clubs had huge debts in the form of loans.

 

[Indian Dan]

I have an iFollow season ticket. Every single game, home and away for €130. Fantastic value.

If games are to be iFollow only I think fans of both teams should only have access to the home team’s stream.

Our debt is entirely due to the owner. Whether that is a good thing or not I’m not sure.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Although a lot of bad and a lot of uncertainty clouds us at the moment, there is scope for positive reform. Season ticket and matchday admission prices could be reduced because of all of this. Clubs will be desperate for all the income they can get. Also, player wages are set to reduce and lavish agents fees at this level will be a thing of the past too.

Clubs like ourselves, Argyle, Vale and Tranmere for instance, four clubs with sound business plans for the future, may well prosper from the pending reforms. But those overly-reliant on a benefactor model and the vast amount of Championship clubs face a very uncertain future. If football is allowed to continue, I can't see Sky being allowed to renegotiate the TV deal which will last till 2024 and give the EFL clubs guaranteed TV income at currentl levels until then. But the first blow to long-term future financing will be that solidarity payments are almost certainly going to be cut significantly from the start of the 2022-23 season. There's no way on this Earth the Premier League will be able to command the exorbitant fees it charges for the broadcasting of its product and that'll cause a great hit to the EFL. You can then imagine that a renegotiated TV deal from 2024 will also be vastly reduced at the EFL levels.

Pretentious clubs in the Championship may threaten a breakaway, but show me a global or even nationwide audience that wants to pay top dollar for second tier football that they think they'll receive? Clubs in the PL may threaten a super league, but what happens to Arsenal or Spurs fanbase when they're lurking at the bottom of it each year? I think every single club in the 92 from Manchester United to Morecambe will be making significant cuts in the future across the board.

The drop in funds will hit those on the fringes of the PL elite and those in the Championship a lot harder than us. If the broadcasting contracts are allowed to run their course, this gives our clubs 2-4 years to prepare for the upcoming hits to income. And a failure to prepare for the drops in broadcast and PL solidarity income in the future. Of course, if football doesn't continue which leads to Sky having the right to renegotiate the deal if either the PL or EFL are found to be in breach of it, then those drops become sudden and I expect a few clubs to go under in the immediate aftermath of such an incident happening.

By 1st July 2022, I'm certain every player at this level and nearly all at League One level will be out of contract. This will allow us to bring wages down to an acceptable level and we can start to build again. But PL and Championship clubs face a more uncertain future. Contracts at most PL clubs will run till 2024 or 2025. Not all of them will but some foreign owners may bail and clubs be sold for a pittance to less wealthy domestic investors. I can't see foreign owners in the second tier especially wanting to stay around for much longer if the takings from a potential accession to the Premier League are lower than what they were before. So if clubs at our level get their acts together quickly, there's every chance for progression up the pyramid that may not have been possible before Coronavirus set in. It'll mean tough decisions in the short term, but some of us may be able to prosper in the long term whilst football finds it feet again.

It's all hypothetical of course, and you'd imagine the Top 6 richest in the PL have enough to sustain and consolidate their positions as the elite in English football for years to come. But for those from 7th to 50th in the domestic football rich list, it's going to hit them harder than the rest.

 

[Indian Dan]

As long as Bournemouth end up fighting for scraps back where they belong when their Russian gangster fucks off.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

As long as Bournemouth end up fighting for scraps back where they belong when their Russian gangster fucks off.

The likes of them, Reading, Birmingham and Sheffield Wednesday will be the biggest losers out of all of this I'm sure.

 

[northstandexile]

A lot of players are going to need to be looking at other careers options if that happens.

there are plenty of jobs picking fruit and veg, so shouldn’t be out of work.

 

[Indian Dan]

there are plenty of jobs picking fruit and veg, so shouldn’t be out of work.

Apparently, there are potatoes to be picked at Forest Green.

 

[Super_horns]

A lot of players are going to need to be looking at other careers options if that happens.

Gary Neville said players might have to go part time or start degrees/education etc.

Mind you he also said the top players shouldn't take pay cuts to help their clubs survive.

Mixed messages?

 

[Super_horns]

As long as Bournemouth end up fighting for scraps back where they belong when their Russian gangster fucks off.

Yes - not quite the rag from riches story the media like to proclaim.

 

[Luke Imp]

Gary Neville said players might have to go part time or start degrees/education etc.

Mind you he also said the top players shouldn't take pay cuts to help their clubs survive.

Mixed messages?

I've not seen the interview, but I'm assuming Neville was referring to the clubs that can afford to pay their players but are using the situation as an excuse to try and not to and decrease contracts.

 

[valefan16]

Well to boost morale we’ve released this!

Our players signing/destroying the clubs anthem

https://twitter.com/x/status/1255550211709075456

Popey being a Vale fan should be more enthusiastic!

 

[Boletus Edulis]

I cannot do the link, but google for the I had Trials Once YouTube channel. There is an hour long interview with Ryan Lowe that came out yesterday. He is clearly expecting an answer from the EFL in the next 7-10 days.

It was a really good watch in terms of how a league two manager sees the situation now, what they were doing etc. Was an interesting point when he said he had three players with pregnant wives who were afraid to go out.

 

[James PAFC]

I cannot do the link, but google for the I had Trials Once YouTube channel. There is an hour long interview with Ryan Lowe that came out yesterday. He is clearly expecting an answer from the EFL in the next 7-10 days.

It was a really good watch in terms of how a league two manager sees the situation now, what they were doing etc. Was an interesting point when he said he had three players with pregnant wives who were afraid to go out.