European Union Referendum

[silkyman]

I hate it when these left leaning papers talk Britain down to try and derail Brexit. The Express are clearly just a bunch of commies.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/8...update-UK-economy-gdp-EU-European-Union-video

 

[PuB]

I hate it when these left leaning papers talk Britain down to try and derail Brexit. The Express are clearly just a bunch of commies.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/8...update-UK-economy-gdp-EU-European-Union-video

Oh my, it's almost like no one warned them

 

[smat]

The big news tonight is that Jack Wilshere starts a league game for Arsenal for the first time in 577 days. But the government has also been defeated on an amendment to give parliament a binding vote on the final deal.

 

[Cornish Piskie]

Excellent news that the Government has been defeated.

The attempted power grab, which would have effectively given the hard-liners in the Tory party carte blanche to railroad their own agenda through has been effectively scuppered. Well done to those Tory rebels who care more for democracy and the rule of Parliament than they do for the fiasco that is Brexit.

It also emphasises how weak Teresa May is and this point will not be lost on Brussels. The EU 27 are united while Britain is in a horrible mess, disunited and led (?) by a weakened government who are at the mercy of extreme right-wingers on one side and pro-remain rebels on the other who won't be bullied or intimidated.

Nobody knows for certain where this is all going to lead, but it's not unreasonable to assume that the probability of a No Deal scenario has just risen and that in turn could possibly be translated, via a disastrous vote in Parliament, into a second referendum after October 2018 and before March 2019. That is, of course, only one scenario but it's the one I'd prefer.

 

[DarkSithLord]

Hearing Stephen Hammond - a leading Tory rebel in tonight's vote - just sacked as a Vice Chairman of the Conservative party. Number 10 is no longer in listening mode

 

[Laker]

I’m just considering the implications of a “meaningful vote”. So if we get to March 2019 with a deal presented to Parliament, this goes to vote. A vote “for” means we accept what has been negotiated on our behalf. “Against” means we reject it and we’re out of everything as there’s no time for a re-negotiation.

Be a brave MP to vote against.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Re Brexit Phase 2 trading negotiations, I see there was another report this week warning that all possible scenarios for exiting the EU will have unfavourable repercussions for the UK economy. Nothing particularly revelatory here but it does affirm a couple of things that Remainers have long argued, and Leavers have long dismissed. Firstly, that the UK is attractive for investors precisely because it's in the single market, and secondly, that the UK stands to lose a hell of a lot more from a bad or no deal scenario than the EU, placing us, I would argue, in a very weak position to achieve the sort of spectacular, bespoke deal that a lot of Leavers seem to take for granted. When it comes to other countries, I think much of our attraction as a trading partner will be precisely because we're in such a delicate position. To give an example of this, India's already indicated that it expects loosened visa arrangements as part of a prospective free-trade deal. Given Britain's position they'll be confident of achieving this but one wonders what the closed border Brexiteers will make of it...

Excellent news that the Government has been defeated.

The attempted power grab, which would have effectively given the hard-liners in the Tory party carte blanche to railroad their own agenda through has been effectively scuppered. Well done to those Tory rebels who care more for democracy and the rule of Parliament than they do for the fiasco that is Brexit.

It also emphasises how weak Teresa May is and this point will not be lost on Brussels. The EU 27 are united while Britain is in a horrible mess, disunited and led (?) by a weakened government who are at the mercy of extreme right-wingers on one side and pro-remain rebels on the other who won't be bullied or intimidated.

Nobody knows for certain where this is all going to lead, but it's not unreasonable to assume that the probability of a No Deal scenario has just risen and that in turn could possibly be translated, via a disastrous vote in Parliament, into a second referendum after October 2018 and before March 2019. That is, of course, only one scenario but it's the one I'd prefer.

Tbf to the dog, I'm unsure as to how far s/he can be blamed for our current predicament. One wonders what the poor animal did in a past life to end up on that particular raft though.

Hearing Stephen Hammond - a leading Tory rebel in tonight's vote - just sacked as a Vice Chairman of the Conservative party. Number 10 is no longer in listening mode

Was it ever? I rather think that not being "in listening mode" was what cost them the vote in the first place!

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Also, cheering to note that the virulently homophobic, racist, sexist, child molester that the supposedly "likeable" Nigel Farage was backing for Senate in Alabama lost, isn't it?

 

[.V.]

Written by a leaver.

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2017/12/13/hard-brexiteers-will-never-be-happy

 

[smat]

I’m just considering the implications of a “meaningful vote”. So if we get to March 2019 with a deal presented to Parliament, this goes to vote. A vote “for” means we accept what has been negotiated on our behalf. “Against” means we reject it and we’re out of everything as there’s no time for a re-negotiation.

Be a brave MP to vote against.

Might depend on whether the EU are open to an extension of talks, or a new referendum (or even a revocation of Article 50?!)?

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

The Mail are taking the parliamentary vote well then. Typically balanced and responsible journalism.

Love the fact the rebels all look so cheerful though

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Will the Tories not be secretly quite happy with this? Whatever happens Labour will now be on the hook somewhat too.

 

[PuB]

Ha, the ever increasingly desperate, but not succinct Daily Mail.

May Father Christmas shit down their chimneys and snow ruin their Christmas travel plans. Bunch of wank FAILING twats.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

I love how hilariously shit some of their tortuous headline are. Are there any other papers that bore their readers with really tedious preambles before getting to the point? These are particularly fine examples of the practice:

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/821483289982697472?lang=en-gb
https://twitter.com/bbcnews/status/933467393980018688?lang=en

 

[PuB]

If you have to explain it first, then put the headline, awkwardly explain it after with a stupid picture and then tell people the story. You're not doing very well in life.

 

[Super_horns]

And the Mail accuse the BBC of being bias..

Pot kettle black anyone?

 

[Laker]

The Mail is quite hilarious, i consider it a comic rather than anything factual.

 

[Red]

If you have to explain it first, then put the headline, awkwardly explain it after with a stupid picture and then tell people the story. You're not doing very well in life.

You've got take into account that the people who read it though are brainless fucking morons and consequently require it to be presented in that way so they can assimilate it.

 

[silkyman]

At this point, they are simply taking the piss.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/iain-...iness-eu-trade-learn-to-get-by-brexit-2017-12

 

[smat]

At this point, they are simply taking the piss.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/iain-...iness-eu-trade-learn-to-get-by-brexit-2017-12

New analysis by the Financial Times suggests that Britain has already suffered substantially depressed growth as a result of leaving the EU.

According to their analysis, "Britain's output is now around 0.9% lower than was possible if the country had voted to stay in the EU."

This equates to almost exactly £350 million less a week, the same figure that the official Brexit campaign said the UK would benefit from if it voted to leave.

 

[Abertawe]

when you lift weights you're often weaker the next day but long term...

 

[Benji]

Shit, we're going to have to Brexit for an hour three times a week to feel any benefit!

 

[smat]

when you lift weights you're often weaker the next day but long term...

long term in my experience you give up and start eating junk food again

 

[silkyman]

Shit, we're going to have to Brexit for an hour three times a week to feel any benefit!

Never skip Legsit day.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

If you calculate how much money the government spends on the average person on welfare alone, and then subtract that based on the net drop in migration since the vote, then we're actually marginally better off as far as the government's short-term ability to spend goes. For the Financial Times to take that guesstimate £350m figure and go so far as to translate it into a wage loss for the average Briton is to be knowingly deceptive. It doesn't work like that and they know it.

 

[smat]

If you calculate how much money the government spends on the average person on welfare alone, and then subtract that based on the net drop in migration since the vote, then we're actually marginally better off as far as the government's short-term ability to spend goes. For the Financial Times to take that guesstimate £350m figure and go so far as to translate it into a wage loss for the average Briton is to be knowingly deceptive. It doesn't work like that and they know it.

Well in fairness it doesn't work like that either, as a migrant is less likely to be claiming any type of welfare (particularly those that can afford to move). To be clear tho I think they are being mischievous, having correctly assumed that £350m would be the funniest number and working backwards from there.

 

[Benji]

Finally a plan for Brexit.

"Be more patriotic about cheese": http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi...cs&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

 

[silkyman]

If you calculate how much money the government spends on the average person on welfare alone, and then subtract that based on the net drop in migration since the vote, then we're actually marginally better off as far as the government's short-term ability to spend goes.

Did you write that seriously? I mean, really? The 'migrants are all here stealing our benefits' line?

That's still the best you've got?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...h-do-immigrants-really-claim-in-benefits.html

From the fucking Telegraph.

It suggests that whatever the arguments for and against reducing the number of EU migrants receiving British benefits, delivering such a reduction wouldn’t make a significant difference to the overall welfare bill which is estimated to be £208 billion for the year 2013-14. And seeing as the take-up of benefits among migrants is so small, it’s also worth asking how big of a draw Britain’s welfare system really is.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Maybe you should take a breath, compose yourself, stop acting like a giant fucking bellend for five minutes and re-read what you're responding to, then you'll perhaps realise that I was simply trying to explain why the numbers the Financial Times were peddling do not mean what they're implying they mean. I didn't say a word about 'migrants stealing benefits'. I did miscalculate though and you would need to take other per-capita spending into account to make up the difference, but still.

I will accept apologies in Nintendo form.

 

[silkyman]

You explicitly said that a drop in migration = a drop in benefits payments. It was that simple. Despite plenty of evidence that migrants give a net financial benefit.

Still, blue passports, eh? (Weren’t they black, anyway?)

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/943970736494039040