General Election 2015

[Gashead]

Me personally, I do feel sorry for those earning 150k+ a year having a bit of extra tax taken away from their salary. Makes the idea of the poorest in this country relying on food banks quite minute in comparison doesn't it.

But don't you see Cardsfan, cuts have to be made! It's a crying shame, but how else will the rich people live so comfortably whilst exploiting the poor?

I mean, we could stamp down on tax evasion in the tens of billions a year by big businesses, we could increase the top rate of tax and raise lots of money, neither of which would result in anybody dying. And that's just a starter.

BUT, the 'me me me' people of this country have spoken. Foodbanks, unsecure employment and a crap education is what awaits for the rest of us mere mortals.

 

[TheMinsterman]

Sorry, but this isn't a football game where we can all shake hands at the end. This about core values and how you treat fellow people within your society. The Conservatives very clearly do value the votes of the wealthy over those of the poorest, value cutting tax and benefit payments, extolling private business profit over an NHS which is collectively run and collectively responsible. If you share the values of the Conservative party, you are quite simply a bellend, it couldn't more obvious, it's like Glasgow Rangers fans...unpleasant people, without exception.

One other thing I'd say, the geographic divide could not be starker. The Northern cities are Labour, but the South is increasingly Tory, even London didn't move much for Labour. Can we have an SNP type party for the North? Labour aren't representing us well enough and the North and South are rapidly becoming different places altogether, the Northern cities have a lot more in common with the SNP politics than the Tory south.

There's a recently established Yorkshire First and a Northern Party whose aims are powers for the North (or Yorkshire in the former's case) to dictate policies.

 

[Alty]

One other thing I'd say, the geographic divide could not be starker. The Northern cities are Labour, but the South is increasingly Tory, even London didn't move much for Labour. Can we have an SNP type party for the North? Labour aren't representing us well enough and the North and South are rapidly becoming different places altogether, the Northern cities have a lot more in common with the SNP politics than the Tory south.

What's the goal though? How is a party like that to be kept together? I get that there's a Northern identity and that people are broadly more left-wing than those in the Midlands and particularly the South. But I'm not sure how you can harness all that unless you're going to campaign for independence. Which, despite my jokes last night, would be a bit bonkers.

I know they have the Northern League in Italy which is popular. I don't think they're secessionist (could be wrong - I'm not that up on Italian politics). Is that the kind of thing you're thinking?

I wonder whether a fully federal UK is inevitable now (assuming it doesn't break up completely)?

 

[Stevencc]

Sorry, but this isn't a football game where we can all shake hands at the end. This about core values and how you treat fellow people within your society. The Conservatives very clearly do value the votes of the wealthy over those of the poorest, value cutting tax and benefit payments, extolling private business profit over an NHS which is collectively run and collectively responsible. If you share the values of the Conservative party, you are quite simply a bellend, it couldn't more obvious, it's like Glasgow Rangers fans...unpleasant people, without exception.

One other thing I'd say, the geographic divide could not be starker. The Northern cities are Labour, but the South is increasingly Tory, even London didn't move much for Labour. Can we have an SNP type party for the North? Labour aren't representing us well enough and the North and South are rapidly becoming different places altogether, the Northern cities have a lot more in common with the SNP politics than the Tory south.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11584325/full-results-map-uk-2015.html

London voted almost exclusively for Labour so it is nowhere near as black and white as you are making out and if you do a bit of research there are a few parties that aim to do what the SNP does for the north of England. They've even called one "The Northern Party" which shouldn't really be that hard to stumble across if you are even remotely interested in doing some research into the subject.

 

[TheMinsterman]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11584325/full-results-map-uk-2015.html

London voted almost exclusively for Labour so it is nowhere near as black and white as you are making out and if you do a bit of research there are a few parties that aim to do what the SNP does for the north of England. They've even called one "The Northern Party" which shouldn't really be that hard to stumble across if you are even remotely interested in doing some research into the subject.

Indeed, link below for anybody interested.

http://www.northern.party/index.html

 

[Mustard]

Me personally, I do feel sorry for those earning 150k+ a year having a bit of extra tax taken away from their salary. Makes the idea of the poorest in this country relying on food banks quite minute in comparison doesn't it.

It's not as simple as that though. Those earning £150k+ pay almost a third of all income tax in this country. These are also the kinds of people who work for the types of businesses who can easily take their wealth elsewhere. I'd rather they were accumulating wealth and paying tax in the UK than elsewhere, them leaving benefits nobody. I do believe there needs to be a harder line on corporation tax and steps are already being taken to stop tax evasion from multinationals by the OECD and even the coalition government, but there is a fine line where you can easily scare business and high earners away and I think that's what let Miliband down. There is a point where over taxing the rich is cutting off your nose to spite your own face. I think both parties have struggled to find that balance.

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

What's the goal though? How is a party like that to be kept together? I get that there's a Northern identity and that people are broadly more left-wing than those in the Midlands and particularly the South. But I'm not sure how you can harness all that unless you're going to campaign for independence. Which, despite my jokes last night, would be a bit bonkers.

I know they have the Northern League in Italy which is popular. I don't think they're secessionist (could be wrong - I'm not that up on Italian politics). Is that the kind of thing you're thinking?

I wonder whether a fully federal UK is inevitable now (assuming it doesn't break up completely)?

Federalisation. I'm not bonkers enough to believe in a Northern state, I just believe this country is very clearlty divided politically between the North and the South and has been for decades. I get London is generally Labour too, but given the fact it's a essentially a mini-state of its own we can't look for an alliance with them. I'm not even sure about a separate party, it could operate within Labour as it stands, pushing for a leftwards move. I'm sick of this narrative that Labour has to tone itself down to get elected, this country is crying out for a genuine social-democratic alternative, Miliband try as he might, never really got that alternative across. We're losing votes of disenfranchised working class people to the apes of UKIP who are essentially Tories in economic policy. Labour should also be prepared to work with the SNP against a Tory government, the fact of the matter is that if you combine the Labour-SNP-Green vote, there's a very clear need for a left-wing party.

 

[Stee]

I can see that trying to have a civil conversation about this is only going to be met with hostility.

Me personally, I do feel sorry for those earning 150k+ a year having a bit of extra tax taken away from their salary. Makes the idea of the poorest in this country relying on food banks quite minute in comparison doesn't it.

These people have worked bloody hard to get somewhere in life and are already paying a massive chunk of the tax going into the system of this country. When I said was taking from one area and feeding another, I didn't mean I voted Con because I advocate taking money from the poor and giving it to the rich, it is that I think there are better ways of trying to tackle the problem than taking money from people who work hard to earn it and scaring away the big businesses in this country who are paying the money that makes the economy turn.

Between 1997 and 2010 Labour reduced both child poverty and pensioner poverty but poverty for working-age adults without children increased. Labour is not the golden answer to poverty and thinking that taxing an extra 5% of people making 150k plus a year will actually result in a marked reduction in poverty are looking through rose tinted glasses.

It is never going to be perfect but I think we need to aim for hand ups' not 'hand outs'...this does catagorically not mean that all people who vote Con hate poor people ^^

 

[AFCB_Mark]

It's not as if every southerner earns 100k a year ffs which is the impression you get from some of the upset Labour support.

There is large swathes of the north also voting Tory, this time around. I think it has more to do with Labour's record over their time in office and people memories of that. Depending on your standpoint - either the perception of, or fact of, the mess they left the previous government. Sticky note on the desk apologising for there being no money left et all. I'd say it also has something to do with the unclear message that Labour generally stands far, Ed tried to take them more to the left but tried to straddle both left and centre and it all gets a bit muddled. They spent large amounts of the last Parliament with little or no tangible policy, whilst they decided how to tackle that conundrum - and clearly they never quite cracked it.

There is also the splitting of the left vote to consider, between the SNP in Scotland and the Greens in England, If Labour wanted to be properly left leaning, they needed those million or so Green votes and some SNP. If they wanted to be central, they needed those Lib Dem defectors. They got neither.

Two options for Labour I see. Andy Burnham who is fairly traditional left Labour, go left and stick properly with it. Or someone like (dare I say it) David Milliband who is more Blair like and central facing. If Labour continue to muddle on trying to be everything to everyone, they're not going to pick up many votes on centre or left and will continue to get battered.

 

[Stee]

The politics have come central in the UK and I don't see that changing, someone more like Blair is their best chance IMO

 

[TractorBoys]

You may not but the party you voted for sure does.

**ALERT** BULLSHIT OPINION BEING STATED AS FACT IN ANTI-TORY BOREFEST **ALERT**.

Some of the responses in this thread are absolutely hilarious. We're a democracy. Quit with the bullshit. Your views are the minority, not the majority.

The people voted, and boy did they get it right.

BLUE ARMY.

 

[Gashead]

The politics have come central in the UK and I don't see that changing, someone more like Blair is their best chance IMO

So at the next election we should vote Tory or Tory is what you're suggesting? What a surprise

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

I didn't realise this website was run by Tory boys? What happened to Lord Football?

 

[Stee]

So at the next election we should vote Tory or Tory is what you're suggesting? What a surprise

I have no idea how you got to that conclusion, I said politics are central and they need someone more like Blair to get back on track...how the hell does that mean vote Tory? Sensationalism much? It is tiresome in this thread frankly.

 

[smat]

I didn't realise this website was run by Tory boys? What happened to Lord Football?

lost his seat

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

'central' is code for neo-liberal right. Central politics are good for middle-class people and shit for the working-class.

 

[Alty]

Indeed, link below for anybody interested.

http://www.northern.party/index.html

I love the little graphic on the main page with the iconic buildings

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

**ALERT** BULLSHIT OPINION BEING STATED AS FACT IN ANTI-TORY BOREFEST **ALERT**.

Some of the responses in this thread are absolutely hilarious. We're a democracy. Quit with the bullshit. Your views are the minority, not the majority.

The people voted, and boy did they get it right.

BLUE ARMY.

We may have lost chelski72, anthammer and sidicks but it's somewhat comforting to know that someone is here to fill the annoying Tory troll void.

 

[mnb089mnb]

I didn't realise this website was run by Tory boys? What happened to Lord Football?

By a Tory who doesn't trust Labour enough to hold the purse strings and Saddlerad.

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

These people have worked bloody hard to get somewhere in life

So poor people don't work hard?

 

[Pagnell]

Some of the responses in this thread are absolutely hilarious. We're a democracy. Quit with the bullshit. Your views are the minority, not the majority

The funny thing is, with first past the post, that isn't necessarily true.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

My head hurts.

Have been trying not to think of the many awful policies the Tory have proposed over the past few months/years because I didn't think it possible that they'd have the ability to implement many of them. Darn...

I think the polls have quite a lot to answer for. I do wonder whether they should be banned in the run-up to an election (something they do in other countries). They definitely have the potential to skew the results somewhat...

 

[Ellis]

Purely theoretical and super unlikely, but what do you guys think on the odds and chances of a return of David Miliband?

Ed Miliband to resign his seat allowing for his brother to return in the by-election and take over the Labour party. Wonder if a return would play well with the electorate.

Right now for me there is a fundamental leadership deficit in the Labour Party. Chuka Uwunna is too decisive and perhaps too young, and Andy Burnham is definitely too left leaning if Ed failed to capture the minds of southern England.

 

[TractorBoys]

So poor people don't work hard?

I imagine it varies on a case by case basis.

Not sure, like.

The funny thing is, with first past the post, that isn't necessarily true.

Not always. But in this case, true.

CON 36.9%
LAB 30.5%

 

[Pagnell]

My head hurts.

Have been trying not to think of the many awful policies the Tory have proposed over the past few months/years because I didn't think it possible that they'd have the ability to implement many of them. Darn...

The Snoopers' charter is almost certainly one of them. What a steaming pile of shit that is.

 

[mnb089mnb]

37% isn't a majority. It's just over a third.

 

[TractorBoys]

37% isn't a majority. It's just over a third.

It was enough to win a conservative majority.

So, to recap for anyone who's missed anything to date;

Tory majority as Miliband, Clegg, Farage quit
Conservatives have Commons majority

 

[Techno Natch]

My head hurts.

Have been trying not to think of the many awful policies the Tory have proposed over the past few months/years because I didn't think it possible that they'd have the ability to implement many of them. Darn...

I think the polls have quite a lot to answer for. I do wonder whether they should be banned in the run-up to an election (something they do in other countries). They definitely have the potential to skew the results somewhat...

Yeah I agree about the polls. Fucking annoying just because I was fed up of hearing about them.

 

[Tilbury]

**ALERT** BULLSHIT OPINION BEING STATED AS FACT IN ANTI-TORY BOREFEST **ALERT**.

Some of the responses in this thread are absolutely hilarious. We're a democracy. Quit with the bullshit. Your views are the minority, not the majority.

The people voted, and boy did they get it right.

BLUE ARMY.

You're acting like you haven't presented your opinions as facts in here as well?

 

[Alty]

Purely theoretical and super unlikely, but what do you guys think on the odds and chances of a return of David Miliband?

Ed Miliband to resign his seat allowing for his brother to return in the by-election and take over the Labour party. Wonder if a return would play well with the electorate.

Right now for me there is a fundamental leadership deficit in the Labour Party. Chuka Uwunna is too decisive and perhaps too young, and Andy Burnham is definitely too left leaning if Ed failed to capture the minds of southern England.

I'm quite confident David Miliband will be back at some stage. Really can't see it being as a direct replacement for Ed in Doncaster though.

Quite a lot of chatter about either Dan Jarvis or Chuka Umunna taking over. I know nothing about the former and can't stand the latter. Some talk of Burnham but he was well beaten when he last stood. Can't see him winning.