League 1 General Chat Thread

[folletto]

DC never really played him and we sent him back, he came with big expectation (due to football manager largely!) but only made a handful of apps, seemed poor but didn't really get enough game time to fully settle or judge. Left Wing Back has been a real failure of ours, he came in, Liam McCarron who played twice I think, Mal Benning ended up the regular but he wasn't good enough at L1 for us towards the end of last season.

We've never solved that position.

Fair enough, it sounds like there have been attitude issues in the past but his mentality for us has been perfect. Won't get too carried away because undoubtedly he will fall off now but his ceiling seems very high, hence the reputation he had prior.

 

[Luke Imp]

The EFL club owned by a convicted fraudster

Andy Pilley's name is still sung at Fleetwood Town – but the man who bankrolled their success is eight months into a 13-year prison sentence

theathletic.com

"And Pilley still owns the football club. The EFL handbook says people are disqualified from being the director of a club if they are sentenced to longer than 12 months in prison, so Pilley is no longer a formal director of Fleetwood Town; he resigned upon his conviction last year and his two children, Jamie, 27, and Melissa, 19, have taken his place.

A statement on the Fleetwood website, though, says that a company called Jaymel Limited owns 97 per cent of the club.

The UK’s online company register details that there is only one “person with significant control” of Jaymel Limited: Andy Pilley, who has 75 per cent or more of the shares and voting rights and the “right to appoint and remove directors”.

The EFL Owners’ and Directors’ Test says the definition of a director includes “a person having control over a club”.

When an owner is convicted, the owner will need to divest their shares within 28 days of receiving “written receipt” from the league — but nine months on from Pilley’s conviction, although he has resigned as a formal director, he is still the owner of the club. The EFL and Fleetwood say this is an ongoing process."

 

[Luke Imp]

EFL agrees innovative new international TV rights deals

The Official home of the English Football League

www.efl.com

 

[leedsvaliant]

The EFL club owned by a convicted fraudster

Andy Pilley's name is still sung at Fleetwood Town – but the man who bankrolled their success is eight months into a 13-year prison sentence

theathletic.com

"And Pilley still owns the football club. The EFL handbook says people are disqualified from being the director of a club if they are sentenced to longer than 12 months in prison, so Pilley is no longer a formal director of Fleetwood Town; he resigned upon his conviction last year and his two children, Jamie, 27, and Melissa, 19, have taken his place.

A statement on the Fleetwood website, though, says that a company called Jaymel Limited owns 97 per cent of the club.

The UK’s online company register details that there is only one “person with significant control” of Jaymel Limited: Andy Pilley, who has 75 per cent or more of the shares and voting rights and the “right to appoint and remove directors”.

The EFL Owners’ and Directors’ Test says the definition of a director includes “a person having control over a club”.

When an owner is convicted, the owner will need to divest their shares within 28 days of receiving “written receipt” from the league — but nine months on from Pilley’s conviction, although he has resigned as a formal director, he is still the owner of the club. The EFL and Fleetwood say this is an ongoing process."

They seemed to have better players than us the other night. Players like Jayden Stockley won't be on pennies. These have been funded (and are continued to be funded) by criminal means. We're bad enough as it is without having to compete against these and Reading who continuously flout the rules.

I said before, if these points that we've lost against these clubs see us relegated, then we should go to court. The whole league is a sham if clubs are not willing to play by the rules and the EFL are not willing to punish them adequately.

 

[folletto]

Is it next season the new Sky TV deal comes into place? 10 EFL games on TV every weekend is pretty crazy. The amount of games that are going to get moved away from Saturday at 3pm, especially for clubs like Derby, Wrexham etc is gonna be wild.

 

[valefan16]

Is it next season the new Sky TV deal comes into place? 10 EFL games on TV every weekend is pretty crazy. The amount of games that are going to get moved away from Saturday at 3pm, especially for clubs like Derby, Wrexham etc is gonna be wild.

Yes.

League One and Two combined has 5 per weekend live.

Expectation is Saturday lunchtime kick offs if I recall.

All midweek games will be live on Sky, all opening and final day of the season games will be live on Sky, all Carabao and BSM Trophy games will be live on Sky.

In terms of league games each club is on average to be shown 16 times.

Not sure how it will work in terms of we pay £10 per game for ifollow now, as in will it be an additional package to purchase maybe?

 

[folletto]

Yes.

League One and Two combined has 5 per weekend live.

Expectation is Saturday lunchtime kick offs if I recall.

All midweek games will be live on Sky, all opening and final day of the season games will be live on Sky, all Carabao and BSM Trophy games will be live on Sky.

In terms of league games each club is on average to be shown 16 times.

Not sure how it will work in terms of we pay £10 per game for ifollow now, as in will it be an additional package to purchase maybe?

On a selfish note it'll be good for me as I watch next to no League one games outside of Charlton really, mainly due to Sky only showing a few a season currently. Can imagine it'll be chaos for away fans though, especially if they are Sat lunchtime KOs.

 

[valefan16]

On a selfish note it'll be good for me as I watch next to no League one games outside of Charlton really, mainly due to Sky only showing a few a season currently. Can imagine it'll be chaos for away fans though, especially if they are Sat lunchtime KOs.

Its good for away games for fans who don't get to them every week for instance, maybe knocks some off attendances especially mid week games if not £10 a time.

Suppose the devil will be in the detail in the end.

 

[Luke Imp]

You just hope that the extra money the Clubs are being paid will cover what the losses will probably be in ticketing revenue because it's not just the tickets, it's all the secondary spends as well - food, drink, club shop etc.

 

[denzel ecfc]

They seemed to have better players than us the other night. Players like Jayden Stockley won't be on pennies. These have been funded (and are continued to be funded) by criminal means. We're bad enough as it is without having to compete against these and Reading who continuously flout the rules.

I said before, if these points that we've lost against these clubs see us relegated, then we should go to court. The whole league is a sham if clubs are not willing to play by the rules and the EFL are not willing to punish them adequately.

Does POCA apply to football clubs?
You have to wonder what the point of it all is

 

[valefan16]

To be honest if we get relegated its because of awful recruitment, if clubs with off field issues can raise a better squad than us, then that is more damning on us really.

 

[denzel ecfc]

I see Derby have posted their accounts.

Derby County Football Club Financial Results: Year Ending June 2023

Derby County has today announced its financial report for the year ending June 2023.

www.dcfc.co.uk

Quite bug numbers, including 15mn on salaries

 

[masi51]

Was told on here wages stood at 43% of turnover....Iam no accountant but am i wrong to think turnover was cir 20m and wages worked out near 20m with National insurance and pension fees

30m loss seems alarming, but again i dont know know about the figures

 

[Luke Imp]

Kieran Maguire always gives a decent breakdown of figures.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1766041230293528995

 

[denzel ecfc]

Was told on here wages stood at 43% of turnover....Iam no accountant but am i wrong to think turnover was cir 20m and wages worked out near 20m with National insurance and pension fees

30m loss seems alarming, but again i dont know know about the figures

17mn on salaries but that includes all on the books including cleaners. Player wages are about half that apparently so hence 43%. I guess there is the option to sign your centre half as a 'scout' if you want to avoid that though...

 

[91SPP]

17mn on salaries but that includes all on the books including cleaners. Player wages are about half that apparently so hence 43%. I guess there is the option to sign your centre half as a 'scout' if you want to avoid that though...

This was last year’s accounts, which had the first team wage bill at £7.4m - the problem for us, Reading too, presumably, is the cost it takes to run a category one academy which sounds far more significant than I originally gave credit. The first team wage bill this season is running at 45% of our turnover, roughly £10m.

It shows how unsustainable it is for a club the size of Derby to operate in League One. £10m wages on operating costs, ignoring the first team, is about £3-4m more than I would have anticipated. If we had a prolonged stay in this league then I would guess we would eventually have to scrap the category one status academy.

 

[masi51]

This was last year’s accounts, which had the first team wage bill at £7.4m - the problem for us, Reading too, presumably, is the cost it takes to run a category one academy which sounds far more significant than I originally gave credit. The first team wage bill this season is running at 45% of our turnover, roughly £10m.

It shows how unsustainable it is for a club the size of Derby to operate in League One. £10m wages on operating costs, ignoring the first team, is about £3-4m more than I would have anticipated. If we had a prolonged stay in this league then I would guess we would eventually have to scrap the category one status academy.

If you think staying in this league is a liability wait until you go back into the poison chalice that is the championship.
Wages will at least double without your turnover going up by much.
Look at the last time Derby, Bolton, Wigan, Reading played in the championship.......Without parachute payments you run up debt very, very quickly
Added to that you are simply not good enough to survive unless again you invest heavy on the playing side.
Derby have been too much of a quick fix and i think in the long run promotion will be bad for you.

 

[91SPP]

If you think staying in this league is a liability wait until you go back into the poison chalice that is the championship.
Wages will at least double without your turnover going up by much.
Look at the last time Derby, Bolton, Wigan, Reading played in the championship.......Without parachute payments you run up debt very, very quickly
Added to that you are simply not good enough to survive unless again you invest heavy on the playing side.
Derby have been too much of a quick fix and i think in the long run promotion will be bad for you.

I think our approach is going to be much of the same in terms of hitting free agency and with so many players out of contract it gives us an opportunity to upgrade providing the recruitment is good. We have seen how bad the standard of the league is, whoever goes up is going to be favourites to come back down without investment so we are not alone in that.

Whilst we are at this level, our operational wages (ignoring the first team) is a top 6 wage bill at this level on its own, I mean we spend more on operational wages than we do our entire first team. The club costs too much to run a club at this size at this level. Clowes could cut back on costs, i.e. scrap or downsize the academy, but regardless being at this level hurts the club significantly. You're absolutely right about the Championship too, teams are typically well-funded at that level and it's highly competitive, but that's the game.

The hard truth is that Derby can't sustain in League One - it costs too much to run. Equally, it's almost impossible to sustain in the Championship. Being in the Championship allows for a better exposure and the possibility of more outside investment coming into the club - it's required as I know Clowes doesn't have the funding himself to make it up.

 

[masi51]

I think our approach is going to be much of the same in terms of hitting free agency and with so many players out of contract it gives us an opportunity to upgrade providing the recruitment is good. We have seen how bad the standard of the league is, whoever goes up is going to be favourites to come back down without investment so we are not alone in that.

Whilst we are at this level, our operational wages (ignoring the first team) is a top 6 wage bill at this level on its own, I mean we spend more on operational wages than we do our entire first team. The club costs too much to run a club at this size at this level. Clowes could cut back on costs, i.e. scrap or downsize the academy, but regardless being at this level hurts the club significantly. You're absolutely right about the Championship too, teams are typically well-funded at that level and it's highly competitive, but that's the game.

The hard truth is that Derby can't sustain in League One - it costs too much to run. Equally, it's almost impossible to sustain in the Championship. Being in the Championship allows for a better exposure and the possibility of more outside investment coming into the club - it's required as I know Clowes doesn't have the funding himself to make it up.

Academies are again money pits unless you are in the Premiership. Ramsdale, Mooy, Brookes ,Basham and Holding are just a few who attended ours and we only got Money for Holding so again are a expensive liability for league one clubs.
I dont get how you can spend more on operational wages unless your board are taking good money.
Your stadium needs to pay for itself. It certainly has the facilities to house Concerts etc
Off the top of my head this last year we have had 2 sold out Pink concerts, England Rugby league world cup game and we have a England u21 game coming up.
Add that to Snooker and Darts tournaments in our conference centres and you see it can become sustainable




You are right about outside investment. We have lived off that since we came out of Administration

And if we got into the Championship i think we would have new owners going forward



Portsmouth look worthy Champions but as a club i would fear for them next season without major, major investment

 

[denzel ecfc]

Interesting points, I wonder how Argyle are holding up? Though we still haven't had the announcement about future EFL money, I suspect most of it will just go on salaries though.
If players and their agents stopped demanding stupid wages out of kilter with what they are actually worth the problem would go away tomorrow.

 

[Floreat Salopia]

I think the football pyramid as a whole is cementing itself and where the majority of clubs are now will be their natural position in the next 10-20-30 years unless said club gets major investment (look at Wrexham, 15 years in non league and that would still be their level now if they weren’t bankrolled).

Look at Rotherham, constantly up and down, Sheffield Wednesday will be the same and if Plymouth don’t drop this season, next season they will. It’s the exact same for Pompey/Derby/Peterborough or whoever goes up. Then the opposite to that is your Northampton’s/Port Vale’s/Carlisle’s who will last one or two years at this level, drop down, then bounce back in another one or two years. Whoever comes up from League Two will be lucky to be at this level more than three seasons (minus Wrexham until the money runs out).

Football is changing, gone are the days of a Grimsby Town or a Walsall in the Championship for 6/7/8 consecutive seasons.

 

[Don Tonberry]

Academies are again money pits unless you are in the Premiership. Ramsdale, Mooy, Brookes ,Basham and Holding are just a few who attended ours and we only got Money for Holding so again are a expensive liability for league one clubs.
I dont get how you can spend more on operational wages unless your board are taking good money.
Your stadium needs to pay for itself. It certainly has the facilities to house Concerts etc
Off the top of my head this last year we have had 2 sold out Pink concerts, England Rugby league world cup game and we have a England u21 game coming up.
Add that to Snooker and Darts tournaments in our conference centres and you see it can become sustainable




You are right about outside investment. We have lived off that since we came out of Administration

And if we got into the Championship i think we would have new owners going forward



Portsmouth look worthy Champions but as a club i would fear for them next season without major, major investment

Nonono, I'm not having this "worthy champions" stuff until it's confirmed, ta very much!

If we did get promoted, we've got billionaire owners who have said multiple times they'd provide the backing required to compete in the Championship when we get there, so I'm not too worried in that case.

I also don't buy into this whole "not being able to compete in the Championship for sustained periods of time" idea either. Luton and Coventry were here as recently as 2019 and they contested the play-off final last year! If you're run well enough, you'll be fine.

 

[masi51]

Nonono, I'm not having this "worthy champions" stuff until it's confirmed, ta very much!

If we did get promoted, we've got billionaire owners who have said multiple times they'd provide the backing required to compete in the Championship when we get there, so I'm not too worried in that case.

I also don't buy into this whole "not being able to compete in the Championship for sustained periods of time" idea either. Luton and Coventry were here as recently as 2019 and they contested the play-off final last year! If you're run well enough, you'll be fine.

lol you never took the bait......but in all truth we are fucked with injuries and i doubt Derby will push on

 

[Pompeyblueboy]

Academies are again money pits unless you are in the Premiership. Ramsdale, Mooy, Brookes ,Basham and Holding are just a few who attended ours and we only got Money for Holding so again are a expensive liability for league one clubs.
I dont get how you can spend more on operational wages unless your board are taking good money.
Your stadium needs to pay for itself. It certainly has the facilities to house Concerts etc
Off the top of my head this last year we have had 2 sold out Pink concerts, England Rugby league world cup game and we have a England u21 game coming up.
Add that to Snooker and Darts tournaments in our conference centres and you see it can become sustainable




You are right about outside investment. We have lived off that since we came out of Administration

And if we got into the Championship i think we would have new owners going forward



Portsmouth look worthy Champions but as a club i would fear for them next season without major, major investment

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We are backed by a fairly wealthy man. He and his son are ambitious for Pompey get in the Prem
Not every club that goes up comes down. Luton Cov Ipswich and several others.
We have not made it yet but hopefully if we do we can establish ourselves and then move on.
Lets get there first then see how it goes

 

[masi51]

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We are backed by a fairly wealthy man. He and his son are ambitious for Pompey get in the Prem
Not every club that goes up comes down. Luton Cov Ipswich and several others.
We have not made it yet but hopefully if we do we can establish ourselves and then move on.
Lets get there first then see how it goes

The Championship is awash with wealthy owners....Billionaires everywhere
They dont get to be Billionaires with bad business choices.............Hardly any risk decent money to push onto the premier league.
That is very much a close shop and the teams coming down this season will more likely go back up next

 

[Bar Carousel]

Our model is mostly based on a sporting director (Richard Hughes) unearthing players who have something about them to fit our style, but never kicked on at other clubs. Connor Shaugnessy, Paddy Lane, Jack Sparks etc. In the last Jan window we shifted towards proven players at this level to try and get us over the line, or those with the potential (Lang, Moxon). We also like to throw in a few academy youngsters from the top leagues.

We've never thrown silly money at the squad, and I don't expect us to massively splash the cash next season (IF we go up), but would mix them up with some experience of players proven at a higher level, and those with the potential to kick on.

Our CEO regularly uses Luton and Cov as barometers as to what direction we want to go in. Whilst our owners regularly refer to the financial dangers of the Championship and are keen to emphasise that they have the responsibility to ensure the club never goes down the path it has been down several times before and risk extinction.

Finishing lower mid table in the Championship would be huge success next season (for any team getting out of this division). Whoever goes up will either face financial roulette or be in for a very tough season, barring some very clever recruitment.

 

[BRFC_Gas]

Fleetwood fans love Paddy Lane so he must have done something there

 

[K-Win]

Fleetwood fans love Paddy Lane so he must have done something there

The potential was definitely there as he won League One young player of the year at Fleetwood. Seems like it was a personality thing with Scott Brown, which allowed us to pick him up for not much. Thanks Mr Brown.

 

[Luke Imp]

Looks like the PL have shelved the EFL deal for the time being to work out what they want to do to align to UEFA's new cost protocols.

Also read as though 10 Clubs were in favour of scrapping the deal full stop, or have I mis-read that and it was 10 Clubs who didn't want to continue discussions around the EFL deal at the minute?

 

[Super_horns]

Looks like the PL have shelved the EFL deal for the time being to work out what they want to do to align to UEFA's new cost protocols.

Also read as though 10 Clubs were in favour of scrapping the deal full stop, or have I mis-read that and it was 10 Clubs who didn't want to continue discussions around the EFL deal at the minute?

Including some clubs that were very EFL clubs not so long ago .

Liverpool among 10 Prem clubs opposing £836m deal and considering legal fight

Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea were among ten Premier League clubs who opposed a deal to support the EFL as they consider a legal battle if a Government regulator imposes charges on them

www.mirror.co.uk

And could well be again soon

I suppose the Government might well change soon so will this even go ahead. ?