League 2 General Chat Thread

[Laker]

I was an advocate for 3 up/3 down even in the many seasons we were in the bottom half of league 2. There’s no difference in my mind between promotion from the conference to league 2 and the promotion from league 2 to league 1, or any of the other “nation wide” promotions. All should be 24 team leagues with 3 up 3 down.

The only reason it’s not that way is the self interest of clubs in the bottom half of league 2, it’s not for the greater good of football.

 

[ForzaCounty]

I think the fact you state, none of the teams that you’ve played who are in the top spots are any good, but they all beat you, says it all to me. Obviously they were all playing as well as they can but yourselves were crap for the majority of the game, it’s more likely that you were made to look crap because you are an ordinary side that had huge expectations before the season started

The football we were playing for most of last season would absolutely won those games.

We didn't win those games.

This is not because the teams we've played are distinctly better than the sides we played last season.

It is because previously solid players have regressed, teamwork has dissolved, baffling decisions are being made by management in almost every match; unless you lot have been sending somebody into our players' bedrooms at night and hypnotising them, then I don't see how our poor performances are down to opponents rather our players & management losing the plot.

I really don't know how many more ways there are to explain this.

If County played well but just couldn't cope with our opponents, I will more than happily say so. But aside from a handful of moments - the first 45 minutes from Barrow, half an hour or so from Swindon, maybe the odd period from other sides - nothing I've seen from the teams we've played shows any distinct gulf in quality from all the games I saw in the division below last season.

We aren't struggling because of the quality in this league, and I'm bored of having to copy & paste that every time somebody automatically assumes that based on nothing whatsoever. Please someone tell me why Grimsby keep being conventiently forgotten every time this assumption is made.

I couldn't give a toss about the Vanarama, it's a horrible league run by tinpot pricks that only care about their little empires; but I will keep pointing out the lack of a gulf between the standard of these two divisions because from what I've seen it's objectively true. If somebody is going to keep making incorrect comparisons when you have no experience (or even recent experience) of one of the things being compared, then I'm going to keep calling that out. Clicking a like button doesn't make things true.

 

[Soup Ladle]

From the outside looking in, Stockport seem to have gone into the division with their eyes closed a bit, not recruited effectively to compete where they assumed they would. They've panicked and the management are making batshit selections and tactical decisions that are costing them points they absolutely deservedly should have got. After all the shit thrown at us when Challinor left it is mildly amusing they're not all that which was claimed but it was obvious all along.

I reckon the stakeholders at the club (had to get that one in hellogregory) and fans thought well tinpot Sutton finished top 10, we are a mAsSivE club with loads of cash and we smashed everyone last season so we should be smashing it again.

Fair points?

 

[Stocky]

The irony of it is, none of these clubs would be screaming for it if they were languishing in 22nd in League Two, that post wouldn't have been made if Solihull were sat in 2nd. The point it hints at is that those three clubs deserve League football because of who they are, rather than their records so far this season. As said above anyone can smash Dorking 6-0, we even had similar wins in our promotion season. Football is a sport where you end up where you deserve to be based off a club's performance on and off the pitch and it's their own fault they're currently in a difficult league to get out of.

Speak for yourself. We could be down there this season and I'd say without hesitation it should be 3 down from here and 3 up from NL. These are the leagues with the smallest gap yet they have the least up and downs. Like you allude to though, Turkeys won't vote for Christmas.

Teams are better here as they should be a division higher but they're better in a sterile and solid way. It's a poor league this one. National League is much more entertaining. But I respect it's better for my club to be an FL member again.

 

[Stocky]

From the outside looking in, Stockport seem to have gone into the division with their eyes closed a bit, not recruited effectively to compete where they assumed they would. They've panicked and the management are making batshit selections and tactical decisions that are costing them points they absolutely deservedly should have got. After all the shit thrown at us when Challinor left it is mildly amusing they're not all that which was claimed but it was obvious all along.

I reckon the stakeholders at the club (had to get that one in hellogregory) and fans thought well tinpot Sutton finished top 10, we are a mAsSivE club with loads of cash and we smashed everyone last season so we should be smashing it again.

Fair points?

Someone on our forum pulled the stats out which showed our start is near identical to the first season when Salford came up.

We'll get better and better as the windows keep coming. We're learning what works and what doesn't.

More than on the pitch at the moment, our off the pitch works on EP, the academy and the community is far more exciting. We just need to stay afloat and build.

 

[Gunit]

Salford hardly the template for anyone. Spunking serious cash to be fairly average season after season.

 

[DearneValleyRover]

The football we were playing for most of last season would absolutely won those games.

We didn't win those games.

This is not because the teams we've played are distinctly better than the sides we played last season.

It is because previously solid players have regressed, teamwork has dissolved, baffling decisions are being made by management in almost every match; unless you lot have been sending somebody into our players' bedrooms at night and hypnotising them, then I don't see how our poor performances are down to opponents rather our players & management losing the plot.

I really don't know how many more ways there are to explain this.

If County played well but just couldn't cope with our opponents, I will more than happily say so. But aside from a handful of moments - the first 45 minutes from Barrow, half an hour or so from Swindon, maybe the odd period from other sides - nothing I've seen from the teams we've played shows any distinct gulf in quality from all the games I saw in the division below last season.

We aren't struggling because of the quality in this league, and I'm bored of having to copy & paste that every time somebody automatically assumes that based on nothing whatsoever. Please someone tell me why Grimsby keep being conventiently forgotten every time this assumption is made.

I couldn't give a toss about the Vanarama, it's a horrible league run by tinpot pricks that only care about their little empires; but I will keep pointing out the lack of a gulf between the standard of these two divisions because from what I've seen it's objectively true. If somebody is going to keep making incorrect comparisons when you have no experience (or even recent experience) of one of the things being compared, then I'm going to keep calling that out. Clicking a like button doesn't make things true.

The whole point is you aren’t being allowed to play like you did last season and that’s the difference in quality, you don’t have to look like world beaters for 90 minutes, you just need one moment of quality and the ability to stop the other team playing, there’s absolutely no point in comparing last season with this.

 

[Conker]

I’m not actually particularly against 3 up 3 down, but having watched so much L2 and Conference football for years now the gap in quality has always been real and still is.

I’m sure Stockport do have certain other factors why they started the season so poorly but playing better opposition pretty much every week definitely played a part.

 

[AdamStag]

the main difference between the 2 is both pace and you still have pub sides at the bottom of the conference

 

[ForzaCounty]

The whole point is you aren’t being allowed to play like you did last season and that’s the difference in quality, you don’t have to look like world beaters for 90 minutes, you just need one moment of quality and the ability to stop the other team playing, there’s absolutely no point in comparing last season with this.

You've seen us play once this season, and that was 10 v 11 for most of the game; I don't think that's enough to be able to say how much teams are stopping us playing the ball about. Swindon were a good pressing side, first half at least, aside from that nothing really stands out. Nobody has been stopping us from being able to play. I love good pressing football, I know it when I see it and will give credit when it happens, and it hasn't, not to any notable degree at least.

I've watched County play last season, I've watch it this season; I've seen the quality of the Vanarama last season, I've seen the quality of a little under half of this division thus far this season. And I'm telling you, whatever improvement on closing down/punishing errors etc there is, that is not a major factor in our poor season. Particularly as Grimsby, who have kept their side together, are comfortably mid-table and could feasibly be in the playoffs if their star player wasn't injured after one game. We've got summat wrong behind the scenes somewhere, I don't know what it is, but it's not a side that were matching some L1 teams suddenly struggling to cope with the pressures of L2.

 

[PuB]

You've seen us play once this season, and that was 10 v 11 for most of the game; I don't think that's enough to be able to say how much teams are stopping us playing the ball about. Swindon were a good pressing side, first half at least, aside from that nothing really stands out. Nobody has been stopping us from being able to play. I love good pressing football, I know it when I see it and will give credit when it happens, and it hasn't, not to any notable degree at least.

I've watched County play last season, I've watch it this season; I've seen the quality of the Vanarama last season, I've seen the quality of a little under half of this division thus far this season. And I'm telling you, whatever improvement on closing down/punishing errors etc there is, that is not a major factor in our poor season. Particularly as Grimsby, who have kept their side together, are comfortably mid-table and could feasibly be in the playoffs if their star player wasn't injured after one game. We've got summat wrong behind the scenes somewhere, I don't know what it is, but it's not a side that were matching some L1 teams suddenly struggling to cope with the pressures of L2.

The thing you’ve got wrong is putting players on 3 year contracts in the National League to get you out of there, then coming up and realising you have budget restrictions and can’t shift them.

You’re not just allowed to spunk as much money at it as you are in the league below.

(Having said that, I thought your summer recruitment was decent enough, unlike ours).

 

[Boz]

Until there is comparable financial regulation in the NL it should remain as 2 moving between the leagues.There have been teams like Salford and Harrogate effectively buying themselves promotion and their poorly supported teams bolstered by moneybags owners have added nothing to the quality of this league.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

It's definitely Stockport players that have got worse, not their opponents that have got better. Has to be that. They would've won more games if it wasn't for the mistakes, you see.

 

[E10rifle]

We've got summat wrong behind the scenes somewhere, I don't know what it is, but it's not a side that were matching some L1 teams suddenly struggling to cope with the pressures of L2.

Perhaps the squad are all whiny little bitches who can’t admit that they’ve woefully underestimated the step up in quality between the two divisions? Whoops, think I’m confusing your players with your fans. Silly me! Never mind, sure you’ll be showing us hopeless cloggers your League One pedigree in no time. No time at all. Aaaaaany time now…

 

[Stocky]

It's definitely Stockport players that have got worse, not their opponents that have got better. Has to be that. They would've won more games if it wasn't for the mistakes, you see.

Whitfield couldn't get near our bench last season when fit and he's tearing it up in L2.

I liked him but he's been in NL for a few years and is having his best career start in L2. That can happen, form of players is down to many things. But I doubt it would ever happen in any other step up on division bar NL to L2.

It's a step up but the smallest step up in the top 6 divisions of English Football.

I think teams in this league seem to play very conservative football too. The gap between L1 and L2 is getting bigger. The L2 promoted sides are struggling in L1.

 

[PaulHaddock]

As the middle men in this argument, I believe us Grimsby lot should have a respected opinion on this.

We’ve pretty much hovered either side of 92nd place for the past 10 years so I reckon we have decent knowledge of the levels of both leagues. Of last seasons team, we’ve kept about 6/7 of them in the starting XI, which would also then include McAtee if he wasn’t injured. To be completely honest, I don’t think the jump is that big. The biggest difference is that teams press a lot more and for longer during the games and the finishing is a bit better, as you’d expect.

It’s fair to see we’ve rode our luck a little and most of our games have been tight affairs but no one has yet to blow us away. Only Orient have beaten us by two goals and they were both a penalty and a wonder goal. Going to stick my neck out and say if McAtee was fit, we could’ve been top 3 at this stage.

In terms of Stockport, I’m not sure what’s gone wrong for them. They were a good footballing side when we played them in April and were much better than us tbh, only a red card helping us beat them. The only issue was that despite their quality players, they weren’t that quick and no real pace injection during the summer wouldn’t help that I imagine. I’d be interested to see who they sign in January.

3 up 3 down is the only way forward for me. It gets rid of teams who aim to be better than the bottom two (like us for a few years) and makes for a far more interesting league with another new team each year. You’d be likely to get two decent ex-league clubs back and perhaps a newbie who shakes things up a bit. If they get relegated again, so be it, that’s the way things work. It’s absolutely not fair that 4 teams go up in L2 when it’s half that in the NL.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

Whitfield couldn't get near our bench last season when fit and he's tearing it up in L2.

I liked him but he's been in NL for a few years and is having his best career start in L2. That can happen, form of players is down to many things. But I doubt it would ever happen in any other step up on division bar NL to L2.

It's a step up but the smallest step up in the top 6 divisions of English Football.

I think teams in this league seem to play very conservative football too. The gap between L1 and L2 is getting bigger. The L2 promoted sides are struggling in L1.

There are countless examples of players being average at one club and then very good at a higher level - I bet almost everyone on here has an example from their club. Nothing to do with standards, it's how they're used and how they fit in, as well as hitting form. Sean McConnville was awful for us (and others) in non-league, even Conference North, and a season or two later was one of the top players in League 1 - the step up is the same whatever the level (except Championship to PL).

Barrow fans have probably seen the most National League football on here, and two and a half seasons of L2 - it's obvious to all the difference in standards. Stockport's struggles this season have to be down to more than just a few players have lost their form.

 

[Indian Dan]

3 up 3 down just gives the opportunity for more poorly supported tiddlers to further downgrade league 2. It’s all very well pointing the finger at the 3 or so ex-EFL clubs as being ‘too big’ for non league and deserving of promotion but there’s no guarantees - as it should be.

There are too many clubs now with pathetic attendances and tiny away allocations. That’s what the NL is for!

Get thee behind me Satan!

 

[chipmunx]

3 up 3 down just gives the opportunity for more poorly supported tiddlers to further downgrade league 2. It’s all very well pointing the finger at the 3 or so ex-EFL clubs as being ‘too big’ for non league and deserving of promotion but there’s no guarantees - as it should be.

There are too many clubs now with pathetic attendances and tiny away allocations. That’s what the NL is for!

Get thee behind me *Satan!

you spelt *Salford wrong....

 

[Stocky]

Barrow fans have probably seen the most National League football on here, and two and a half seasons of L2 - it's obvious to all the difference in standards. Stockport's struggles this season have to be down to more than just a few players have lost their form.

I think us Stockport fans can trump most on knowing the levels of the English pyramid. In my 20 plus years supporting the club I've seen us in the Championship, League One, League Two, NL and NLN.

This is a poor fourth tier at the moment both attendance, away attendance and quality wise. A step up from NL yes. But there is a reason no team ever comes up and goes down.

The top three in the NL at the moment are much bigger clubs with much bigger attendances than the current top 5 in this league.

 

[jacobncfc]

I think us Stockport fans can trump most on knowing the levels of the English pyramid. In my 20 plus years supporting the club I've seen us in the Championship, League One, League Two, NL and NLN.

This is a poor fourth tier at the moment both attendance, away attendance and quality wise. A step up from NL yes. But there is a reason no team ever comes up and goes down.

The top three in the NL at the moment are much bigger clubs with much bigger attendances than the current top 5 in this league.

Popped back on here mainly to go and mock Ian Burchnall in the League One forum, but very surprised you lot haven’t taken to League Two a bit better with the signings you made in the summer. Challinor under any pressure yet?

 

[Luke Imp]

I don't think anyone in the EFL with entertain a 3 up, 3 down anyway, but until the NL fall in line with some kind of FFP then there's no chance it'll happen full stop and the NL Clubs don't want that, it's been mooted before.

 

[Stocky]

Popped back on here mainly to go and mock Ian Burchnall in the League One forum, but very surprised you lot haven’t taken to League Two a bit better with the signings you made in the summer. Challinor under any pressure yet?

Alright Jacob, hope you're well pal. I still drop the odd message on the Non League section on here but it is like talking to a brick wall sadly now you've all moved. I'm still keeping well up to date with NL goings on. Looks like it could be a great fight for promotion with you, Wrexham and Chesterfield going strong. Solihull, Boreham Wood, Bromley all belligerent and well run to be fair. Will be twists and turns all year, exciting league for sure.

Couldn't believe Burchnall bagged himself a League One gig. Must do a cracking Powerpoint in his interviews.

We've started slowly. There's never been more than a 1 goal swing in any of our 10 games so far but we've come out on the wrong side of the fine margins more than we have on the right side so far which we'll need to address. I think we're a mid table side doing mid table things but yes some seem to be questioning Challinor. Our owner is very ambitious but I hope he holds his cards for a while yet. Different situation to Rusk last year when I was certain we had a good squad for NL (and so it proved as Challinor fulfilled their potential)

I never rated Wootton with you lot and I still don't rate him now. Limited striker. I do like Jaros though, talented young goalkeeper. I know he was a mixed bag with you.

 

[Stocky]

I don't think anyone in the EFL with entertain a 3 up, 3 down anyway, but until the NL fall in line with some kind of FFP then there's no chance it'll happen full stop and the NL Clubs don't want that, it's been mooted before.

Nobody in the EFL will vote for it as everyone looks after number 1 but as a general football fan, I feel it should definitley be 3 up 3 down.

 

[jacobncfc]

Alright Jacob, hope you're well pal. I still drop the odd message on the Non League section on here but it is like talking to a brick wall sadly now you've all moved. I'm still keeping well up to date with NL goings on. Looks like it could be a great fight for promotion with you, Wrexham and Chesterfield going strong. Solihull, Boreham Wood, Bromley all belligerent and well run to be fair. Will be twists and turns all year, exciting league for sure.

Couldn't believe Burchnall bagged himself a League One gig. Must do a cracking Powerpoint in his interviews.

We've started slowly. There's never been more than a 1 goal swing in any of our 10 games so far but we've come out on the wrong side of the fine margins more than we have on the right side so far which we'll need to address. I think we're a mid table side doing mid table things but yes some seem to be questioning Challinor. Our owner is very ambitious but I hope he holds his cards for a while yet. Different situation to Rusk last year when I was certain we had a good squad for NL (and so it proved as Challinor fulfilled their potential)

I never rated Wootton with you lot and I still don't rate him now. Limited striker. I do like Jaros though, talented young goalkeeper. I know he was a mixed bag with you.

Aye all good, reckon the three of us are probably going to finish miles ahead of everyone else this year. Was worried Williams was continuity Burchnall when we appointed him but he’s got a lot more about him, seems a tougher character and lo and behold we look a much tougher, not as nice team to play against.

Think maybe people got carried away with you being favourites and stuff, consolidating and maybe pushing for the lower play-off places second half of the season wouldn’t be the worst result for you.

Wootton is what he is, a functional lower league target man. He’ll get you 10 goals and work hard at League Two level, but you probably overpaid on his wages because it’s not that hard to get yourself 18 or 19 in a good team at NL level. We’ve lucked out (or done some great scouting, I guess) because the lad we’ve got in to replace him is one of those who’s obviously just passing through on his way up the leagues and will get 30+ if he stays fit.

Jaros was alright, just looked worse because the lad we had on loan before him was class and is now Sunderland’s number one. Was surprised you signed him because I always rated Hinchcliffe as one of the best in our league.

 

[Stocky]

Aye all good, reckon the three of us are probably going to finish miles ahead of everyone else this year. Was worried Williams was continuity Burchnall when we appointed him but he’s got a lot more about him, seems a tougher character and lo and behold we look a much tougher, not as nice team to play against.

Think maybe people got carried away with you being favourites and stuff, consolidating and maybe pushing for the lower play-off places second half of the season wouldn’t be the worst result for you.

Wootton is what he is, a functional lower league target man. He’ll get you 10 goals and work hard at League Two level, but you probably overpaid on his wages because it’s not that hard to get yourself 18 or 19 in a good team at NL level. We’ve lucked out (or done some great scouting, I guess) because the lad we’ve got in to replace him is one of those who’s obviously just passing through on his way up the leagues and will get 30+ if he stays fit.

Jaros was alright, just looked worse because the lad we had on loan before him was class and is now Sunderland’s number one. Was surprised you signed him because I always rated Hinchcliffe as one of the best in our league.

Yeah I can't pick a winner really. The problem with Wrexham is they're not adhering to windows anymore to align with the rest of the league (tbf I always thought that was unfair on them, I think we had advantage on them as we got some influential players in when they couldn't last year). So they'll keep rolling the dice. Injuries and a slice of luck play a part as always. I still stand by my thoughts that if Rowe had kept his hands to himself (alledgedly) and Tshimanga hadn't got injured, Chesterfield could have won it last season. It ran well for us last season, it's competitive at the top.

Wootton just isn't my bag, he shouldn't be a starting striker for us in 12 months if we want to progress. Hinchliffe played Saturday because Jaros was away with Czech u21's and I thought it was noticeable how worse he was with his general commanding. Jaros is still a young keeper, he's not perfect for us either but there's a good goalkeeper there in years to come.

 

[Gladders]

I don't agree with the tweet above that the top 3 would comfortably finish in the play-offs that's just ridiculous, but all 3, as will us and Stockport, provided the clubs are run decently will not trouble relegation in lge 2 for the first season.

Not really followed Stockport so not sure what's changed on the playing side, however they got promoted last season by winning 21 of 22 games against the bottom half, they only managed 9 wins out of 22 against the top half, so players changing or not its no surprise they are not winning against the better teams because they didn't do that last year either.

But it will never be 3 up 3 down as long as the EFL clubs get to decide, none of them want to go to NL, and too many of them will fear that if it goes to 3 relegation spots. Should it go to 3 down? I don't know really, probably, but the NL need to match their rules with the EFL first, particularly on finances, but the fact that the clubs at the top of NL couldn't compete in Lge 2 is a non argument, should we change it to two down in Lge 1 because the clubs at the top of Lge 2 couldn't compete in Lge 1?

 

[RiftHouseLad]

Nobody in the EFL will vote for it as everyone looks after number 1 but as a general football fan, I feel it should definitley be 3 up 3 down.

You don,t seriously believe the NatLge hierachy would allow that do you.
Not a cat in hells chance.

If they lost Wrexham, Notts and Chesterfield this season, And got in return Us, Dale and Barra(sorry Barra).
Think about it its not going to happen is it.

 

[Son of Cod]

Aye all good, reckon the three of us are probably going to finish miles ahead of everyone else this year.

I can't see all three of you finishing miles ahead of Solihull. Had a wobble at the weekend admittedly, but they'll be up there. I'm still annoyed they signed Josh Kelly. Chesterfield are never too far from some kind of self implosion. How are you lot looking in terms of being a bit soft/susceptible to a good pressing side too? I know you've added some good fire power up top, but if you still get overran you'll have a slump or two at various points. I personally can't see past Wrexham even with Parkinson charge.

 

[RiftHouseLad]

I can't see all three of you finishing miles ahead of Solihull. Had a wobble at the weekend admittedly, but they'll be up there. I'm still annoyed they signed Josh Kelly. Chesterfield are never too far from some kind of self implosion. How are you lot looking in terms of being a bit soft/susceptible to a good pressing side too? I know you've added some good fire power up top, but if you still get overran you'll have a slump or two at various points. I personally can't see past Wrexham even with Parkinson charge.

Wait till Challinor gets there, Best National League manager out there.