League 2 relegation thread 14/15

[Soup Ladle]

That's not what I've been told.

At the time it looked like you were certs for non league next season and he had no intention of leaving Middlesbrough to be playing in the conference next season. That's when we stepped in to sign him on a 2yr deal. At the time Middlesbrough had received an offer from 2 other league 2 clubs (one was Hartlepool) but he chose Carlisle.

I'd heard that Boro approached us if we wanted him permanently but we said that we couldn't afford him (usual FFP stuff). Wyke was said to not want to move out of the immediate area but didn't want another loan deal so Boro sent his name out to other L1/L2 clubs and you came in, he chose you. Either way, I wasn't all that fussed about him when he was here but he's certainly better than Harewood and Marvin Morgan (plus he gets better service at Carlisle I'm sure so more goals)

 

[hellogregory]

I'd heard that Boro approached us if we wanted him permanently but we said that we couldn't afford him (usual FFP stuff). Wyke was said to not want to move out of the immediate area but didn't want another loan deal so Boro sent his name out to other L1/L2 clubs and you came in, he chose you. Either way, I wasn't all that fussed about him when he was here but he's certainly better than Harewood and Marvin Morgan (plus he gets better service at Carlisle I'm sure so more goals)

no he bloody doesn't! He gets no service here. He might get a lucky bounce off a goal kick or capitalise on a defender miscontrolling it. That's the level of service he's feeding off!

 

[Soup Ladle]

I'd still argue that even that level of service is still somewhat better than what we were giving him while he was here

 

[Pooliepride]

He only played about 10 games for you, it's hardly Frank Lampard going back to Chelsea.

Regardless, it's an awkward situation in my opinion.

But, he's a professional and I'm sure he will deal with it.

 

[Glasshalffullpools]

I've just looked at Carlisles remaining fixtures, and I stand by what I said, no last day jitters for you boys.... Daggers at home...Accy away with your support! That would mean a couple of draws from the other 6.... Beat Oxford and your almost there, if not , you will still be safe, if we are going to your place needing a win, then that will mean something has gone wrong, for I admit , we have on paper the best run in of anyone, then I can't see us winning

 

[AdamStag]

The thing is if carlisle go down they would be big enough to come back up. As would tranmere.

Cheltenham, hartlepool or york would revert to probable midtable positions

 

[daviejones]

no he bloody doesn't! He gets no service here. He might get a lucky bounce off a goal kick or capitalise on a defender miscontrolling it. That's the level of service he's feeding off!

And to be fair Wyke he has already got us quite a few important goals despite feeding off scraps, especially the Tranmere ones which contributed to the best away day i've had for a while. He's young, got a great work rate and an eye for goal (9 in 23 this season which is pretty good considering the crap he's been playing alongside all season). All he needs is a couple of decent wingers to provide him with some balls in the middle, combine that with Dempsey in centre-mid and he should do alright next season. Still shocked that Hartlepool didn't put in some effort to sign him as he probably would've scored them quite a few goals, or at least scored a load in the conference next year if it came to that.

these goals alone made Wyke worth buying, huge game for both teams. If we'd lost that going into our horrific run of playing 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th then we would likely be closer to 30 points than 40...

 

[Glasshalffullpools]

Carlisle already have come back up, Barnet keep coming back up so it shows what the smaller clubs can do, the fear for us Poolies is not mid table it is far worse, have a look at either of our message boards if you want to catch up, we need survival to attract new owners, if new owners don't come in and Ronnie doesn't get backing the 10 point gap we had will appear small fry !

 

[Soup Ladle]

The thing is if carlisle go down they would be big enough to come back up. As would tranmere.

Cheltenham, hartlepool or york would revert to probable midtable positions

So what makes Mansfield so big that they managed to come back up?

Think if we went down, we'd be well in the top 5 in terms of support down there. Looking at the attendances down there this year we'd be the 3rd best supported and only average a tiny fraction less than Grimsby. This despite three or four years of total crap on and off the pitch. A good start and we'd be very well-backed. Then it'd be down to the board to back the challenge up with decent signings.

 

[AdamStag]

So what makes Mansfield so big that they managed to come back up?

Think if we went down, we'd be well in the top 5 in terms of support down there. Looking at the attendances down there this year we'd be the 3rd best supported and only average a tiny fraction less than Grimsby. This despite three or four years of total crap on and off the pitch. A good start and we'd be very well-backed. Then it'd be down to the board to back the challenge up with decent signings.

We had a multi millionaire chairman that gave us a budget of £1.5m.

Bristol rovers are the exception to the rule - it took us and luton 5 years, Cambridge 9, york 5, Wrexham are spending their 7th, grimsby their 6th...

 

[Soup Ladle]

No illusions it would be tough, very in fact, but to suggest that we don't have the support to do anything more than mid table is rubbish

 

[Glasshalffullpools]

No illusions it would be tough, very in fact, but to suggest that we don't have the support to do anything more than mid table is rubbish

It's not as simple as that though is it with us, will bore everyone if we go into detail on here.....I meant Carlisle are big relatively and came back, Barnet not so, so size isn't that important otherwise Luton wouldn't have taken so long, teams of our size, Lincoln Mansfield Wrexham etc need off the pitch to be as succesful as on the pitch, with our owners that ain't gonna happen ,

 

[Laker]

What I would say is that our support took a hell of a bearing from being non-league for so long. We lost a lot of our casual fanbase (of which there was a fair chunk) and we're struggling to get them back, even now. I think it'd kill us off if we went down again.

 

[AdamStag]

No illusions it would be tough, very in fact, but to suggest that we don't have the support to do anything more than mid table is rubbish

Well most sides in their first season do finish in mid-table.

You may well survive, but I don't think you really understand what non-league does to you.

Your main rivals which were of a comparable size no longer exist in the format they did. If it takes Luton which averaged 6000 or so 5 years to come back up - Grimsby and Wrexham average probably more than what you would and have been down for 6 and 7 years respectively - what makes a Hartlepool fan think they will go straight back up?

The culture shock does for most - playing a third to half of your games on a tuesday night, the weather and the FA trophy postponing about 5-10 games a season, playing games infront of 600 fans - losing the £750,000 of grant money from the FA and so on. It is a hell that you (with respect) have no idea of.

All clubs who go down for the first time think it will be easy - Bristol Rovers are an exception - and even then there is no guarantee they will come back up - you'll be in for the shock of your life. Wrexham finished a season on 99 points - and still didn't gain promotion! Kidderminster won 22 out of their last 25 games, and were still pipped to the post by us who went on a run almost as ridiculous as theirs, then didn't go up

If you went down and came back up, i'd doff my cap and say well played - but you won't.

It's no go at you, the same would happen to Tranmere.

Like Laker said, if we went back down, I don't think you'd see us again in a decade.

You want to hope by some miracle you stay up, otherwise you will be spending years living an ongoing nightmare

 

[Soup Ladle]

It's not as simple as that though is it with us, will bore everyone if we go into detail on here.....I meant Carlisle are big relatively and came back, Barnet not so, so size isn't that important otherwise Luton wouldn't have taken so long, teams of our size, Lincoln Mansfield Wrexham etc need off the pitch to be as succesful as on the pitch, with our owners that ain't gonna happen ,

Of course size of support doesn't guarantee anyone to do well, all I'm saying is that we do in theory have the support to generate greater income than a lot of teams down there, therefore being in a position to challenge *in theory*. As you say, with IOR at the helm it's unlikely to happen but I'm just being optimistic. I'm sure we'd be there for a while under the present set up.

 

[AdamStag]

It's not as simple as that though is it with us, will bore everyone if we go into detail on here.....I meant Carlisle are big relatively and came back, Barnet not so, so size isn't that important otherwise Luton wouldn't have taken so long, teams of our size, Lincoln Mansfield Wrexham etc need off the pitch to be as succesful as on the pitch, with our owners that ain't gonna happen ,

When you've got some tinpot side like Forest Green and Eastleigh - who both average less than 1,000 having budgets that will be bigger than yours - I dare say Barrows would be if they go back up - that's when you realise it's not such fun

 

[Soup Ladle]

Well most sides in their first season do finish in mid-table.

You may well survive, but I don't think you really understand what non-league does to you.

Your main rivals which were of a comparable size no longer exist in the format they did. If it takes Luton which averaged 6000 or so 5 years to come back up - Grimsby and Wrexham average probably more than what you would and have been down for 6 and 7 years respectively - what makes a Hartlepool fan think they will go straight back up?

Never said that though did I?

I know it's tough. Things aren't right off the field for us and I'm praying we stay up to make the club more marketable for new investment/new owners. My point was in relation to your earlier 'revert to mid table' point as though we'd have no supporter base to fall back on in terms of maintaining a challenge.

Fully appreciate how hard it may be/will be. Not in any way would I expect us to go straight back up.

 

[AdamStag]

Never said that though did I?

I know it's tough. Things aren't right off the field for us and I'm praying we stay up to make the club more marketable for new investment/new owners. My point was in relation to your earlier 'revert to mid table' point as though we'd have no supporter base to fall back on in terms of maintaining a challenge.

Fully appreciate how hard it may be/will be. Not in any way would I expect us to go straight back up.

Well Cambridge and York had dalliances with relegation in the conference - Stockport went down to the conference north, Darlo ceased to exist, Lincoln are 12th, Wrexham 14th, Torquay 15th. Believe me, though I am not saying it will certainly happen, you knocking around midtable would be entirely possible and realistic

 

[Soup Ladle]

Let's see but we've got every chance of staying up so it may not even come to this

 

[AdamStag]

Let's see but we've got every chance of staying up so it may not even come to this

You want to hope so, believe me

 

[Judge Dredd]

Well most sides in their first season do finish in mid-table.

All clubs who go down for the first time think it will be easy - Bristol Rovers are an exception - and even then there is no guarantee they will come back up

To be fair in our first season down we finished second with 88 points from 44 games (Brizzle are currently on 77 from 40) so they aren't an exception to any rule just yet... Fingers crossed they do make it back though.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

Carlisle got back up because they were relegated with momentum and confidence, we had spent 6 months of the first half of season sorting out the club and went down just adding 2-3 players in summer having a settled team and that team confident of return.

a big problem sometimes is a side goes down, has to re-build and that can take years and of course in the short-term mentality of football usually it means changing managers, re-building all over again etc, etc and this means its hard to get out, especially in a dog-fight league which the conference is.

plus yes the horrid non-event sides with one mans money pushing well beyond their means which add extra toughness on promotion.

 

[AdamStag]

To be fair in our first season down we finished second with 88 points from 44 games (Brizzle are currently on 77 from 40) so they aren't an exception to any rule just yet... Fingers crossed they do make it back though.

That's what makes the league so ridiculous though, even for those few sides that don't finish midtable, they still don't get out. You finishing on 88 points and still not getting promotion is madness - in any other league you'd be up with that no doubt.

I consider winning the conference outright much harder to do than in any of the other leagues by some margin. Who was the last side to bounce straight back up? Carlisle in 2004?

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

I think only Shrewsbury and Carlisle did.

Bristol R may make it a 3rd

 

[Luke Imp]

We did, albeit back in '87.

 

[Luke Imp]

Carlisle already have come back up, Barnet keep coming back up so it shows what the smaller clubs can do, the fear for us Poolies is not mid table it is far worse, have a look at either of our message boards if you want to catch up, we need survival to attract new owners, if new owners don't come in and Ronnie doesn't get backing the 10 point gap we had will appear small fry !

Difference between Barnet and other smaller Clubs (no disrespect Barnet fans) is 'The Hive', which serves them very well so they're not relying just on attendances. Without The Hive, I doubt they'd be where they are.

Macclesfield are the team you want to be sighting.

 

[rudebwoyben]

Difference between Barnet and other smaller Clubs (no disrespect Barnet fans) is 'The Hive', which serves them very well so they're not relying just on attendances. Without The Hive, I doubt they'd be where they are.

Macclesfield are the team you want to be sighting.

Citing surely.
We didn't have the Hive in 2005 but it's definitely helped us this time around. On the other hand our attendances have not increased as they would have if we had remained at Underhill. In 2004/05 we ended up averaging 2500 as more casual fans went to more and more matches as the season progressed. This season we haven't got past a home core support of 1700 as just about anyone based in Barnet who will go to the Hive does and we're only slowly starting to get some support from the local area.
Having said that, if we do get into League 2 I think the Hive will help us immensely budget-wise. I'd think we'd have a pretty competitive budget for League 2, not among the bottom 3 or 4 as we invariably did when we were at Underhill.

 

[AdamStag]

What's the average budget in the conference this season? It's knocking around £900k or so in league 2. I think ours is £700k.

 

[rudebwoyben]

No idea but I'd say they range from the likes of Welling Utd on £200k to FGR and Eastleigh are probably not far off £1.5m. Ours, I'd put at £750k.

 

[Southern Shayman]

Difference between Barnet and other smaller Clubs (no disrespect Barnet fans) is 'The Hive', which serves them very well so they're not relying just on attendances. Without The Hive, I doubt they'd be where they are.

Macclesfield are the team you want to be sighting.

In fairness to Barnet, they didn't have the Hive last time they went up

Edits: oops already been said above