Luton Town Relocation Plans

[Kenneth E End]

Can this be moved to the L1 thread?

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

I see the planning meeting scheduled for 20th August has been moved with no new date given. Just “definitely” before end of the year.

Absolute omni shambles.

I know the council are trying their best but it really is revealing just how totally ineffective local government is in these sort of things. It’s too big for them to handle and they don’t gave the competence.

 

[Kenneth E End]

So for everyone wondering why this thread has just appeared (OK, maybe not, but humour me), this is the saga for our stadium plans. To summarise where we are up to now...

1. A planning application went in nearly 2 years ago for a stadium at Power Court, initially 17,500 all-seater capacity, rising to 22,500. This will be one of the most iconic and ambitious stadium projects in the country today, bringing the club into the town centre into the heart of the community.

2. The stadium requires an enabling development at Newlands Park (land adjacent to M1 J10) which includes a business park, hotels, retail and leisure which will release the funds for the stadium. The whole project including the stadium will cost between £150-200m in total.

3. The public consultation received around 11,000 responses of which only ~30 were in objection. The biggest level of support in UK planning history.

4. The project however has one large corporate objector, the owners of 'The Mall' Capital & Regional, who by hook or crook, want to slow the process down, 'kick into long grass' and block, which will then kill the club off. They are a multinational company who want to drag the process through the courts, significantly stretching the club of finance. Thankfully, we have a committed group of investors.

5. A few months ago, fans were promised an answer on planning permission w/b 20 Aug (planning application went in Aug 2016). It was said at the end of last week that this is no longer possible, but certainly 'by the end of the year'. Fans are now losing patience, but Luton Borough Council need to make sure all Ts are crossed and Is dotted. C&R have already said they're going to appeal any decision.

6. Originally the plan was to move into the stadium at the start of the 2021-22 season - I can no longer see how this is possible based on over a year of delays.

More info... http://www.2020developments.co.uk/

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

Dont forget the Harpur Centre objection too. The shopping centre in Bedford, a full 20 miles away from Luton.

Its an absolutely ridiculous state of affairs, whereby private enterprise is preventing a town that is in desperate need of regeneration for their own ends...and seemingly being allowed to do it.

 

[Kenneth E End]

Dont forget the Harpur Centre objection too. The shopping centre in Bedford, a full 20 miles away from Luton.

Its an absolutely ridiculous state of affairs, whereby private enterprise is preventing a town that is in desperate need of regeneration for their own ends...and seemingly being allowed to do it.

Didn't forget it, just didn't mention it, because the objection was written by someone who seemingly struggles to put a sentence together.

 

[ThisTinpotLeague]

This will be one of the most iconic and ambitious stadium projects in the country today

The public consultation received around 11,000 responses of which only ~30 were in objection. The biggest level of support in UK planning history.

Do you have any stats for this - say a top 10 table or something - as it would really help those of us who are UK planning novices to gain a sense of scale?

 

[Indian Dan]

I had no objections when I built my conservatory. Suck on that, Hatter!

 

[Kenneth E End]

It is.
These are two huge projects. They will contribute £250m pa to the local economy.

 

[ThisTinpotLeague]

It is.
These are two huge projects. They will contribute £250m pa to the local economy.

Sounds absolutely iconic. I hope we bid for the world cup again in light of this. The extra £250m would probably cover the bid tbf

 

[Ciderup]

6. Originally the plan was to move into the stadium at the start of the 2021-22 season - I can no longer see how this is possible based on over a year of delays.

More info... http://www.2020developments.co.uk/

I hope you don't get a 'Village green' application for either site as that will totally stall / scupper your plans altogether. We fought one for 5 years and still lost. Nobody ever beats one of them. If you saw the land we were planning on building on, you would see why it was laughable!

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

I hope you don't get a 'Village green' application for either site as that will totally stall / scupper your plans altogether. We fought one for 5 years and still lost. Nobody ever beats one of them. If you saw the land we were planning on building on, you would see why it was laughable!

We own the land of both sites so I dont think it should be a problem. With how things seem to work in this town you never know though I guess.

But I hope you haven't given anyone any ideas!

 

[Kenneth E End]

I hope you don't get a 'Village green' application for either site as that will totally stall / scupper your plans altogether. We fought one for 5 years and still lost. Nobody ever beats one of them. If you saw the land we were planning on building on, you would see why it was laughable!

We have the opposite, C&R were at one stage planning to build on the land we already exchanged contracts on, for which we paid over £20m combined.

 

[Marked Ox]

So no Newts found on the site?

 

[Ciderup]

We own the land of both sites so I dont think it should be a problem. With how things seem to work in this town you never know though I guess.

But I hope you haven't given anyone any ideas!

We owned the land we were going to build Ashton Vale on TFCH, cost £Millions. Now a total waste of space.
I totally agree with the last sentiment though.

 

[MagpieBee]

We owned the land we were going to build Ashton Vale on TFCH, cost £Millions. Now a total waste of space.
I totally agree with the last sentiment though.

Took us almost 20 years to get ours built. Probably longer.

 

[Kenneth E End]

Took us almost 20 years to get ours built. Probably longer.

That is nothing.

We've been trying to move since 1955. That is 63 years.

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

Any Sunderland fans dipping in to Outlaws to see what we think before our game tomorrow are going to be in for a bit of a surprise. Basically no talk of the game at all and the place has been going into over drive as there have been some rather unsavoury/concerning developments on the stadium front over the past few days.

It has emerged (I say emerged as I would assume he has been on board for a while now) that C&R (those who oppose the new developments) have employed a "lobbyist" to lobby those in power against the stadium.

The name of said person has got out and he seems to have a rather unsavoury past in the planning and development arena, including bugging council meetings, threatening behaviour and faking letters to local press and just in general being a slimey/borderline corrupt character all around.

With some of the local businesses in the town centre now looking to hold a vote on whether they support the plans or not (something they have already done and supported and may now be looking to renege on), it seems maybe some of these "tactics" might be working. Only yesterday the editor of the local newspaper was accusing supporters and "save our town" of paranoia over a string of letters published against the plans and today those on Outlaws have shown this is a known tactic of this lobbyist that C&R have employed.

Unfortunately it seems in the various different guises he has set up his businesses he seems to have been pretty succesful in influencing planning decisions previously and may be the source of the continual delays we have seen to date.

Im a critic of Outlaws at times but its times like this when it works well. Its basically saved us in some difficult times before and looks like key people are getting together on there to organise the fight against these tactics.

 

[Kenneth E End]

I think it shows any small ounce of credibility they may have had in some people’s eyes, has now been completely eliminated. It is a huge PR own goal.

This started from an interview broadcast yesterday morning on local radio where said person accused the local reporter of lying and making up his communications with store tennants in a patronising way.

It has since been discovered that this PR guy has a shady history and even has his own website where he lists his own lobbying tactics, including the spreading of fake news. It’s in essence a dossier of underhand tactics and proves how as an organisation how hypocritical they all. He even claims on his LinkedIn page that he aims at the politics of planning.

Today’s game is important and our season on the pitch important, but that pales into insignificance compared to this project. We are nearing one of the most important phases in the clubs entire history.

If C&R are successful in their lobbying and manage to convince the council to reject the plans, or continue to force it into the long grass, as they claim, the club will fold. It is that critical.

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

I think it shows any small ounce of credibility they may have had in some people’s eyes, has now been completely eliminated. It is a huge PR own goal.

This started from an interview broadcast yesterday morning on local radio where said person accused the local reporter of lying and making up his communications with store tennants in a patronising way.

It has since been discovered that this PR guy has a shady history and even has his own website where he lists his own lobbying tactics, including the spreading of fake news. It’s in essence a dossier of underhand tactics and proves how as an organisation how hypocritical they all. He even claims on his LinkedIn page that he aims at the politics of planning.

Today’s game is important and our season on the pitch important, but that pales into insignificance compared to this project. We are nearing one of the most important phases in the clubs entire history.

If C&R are successful in their lobbying and manage to convince the council to reject the plans, or continue to force it into the long grass, as they claim, the club will fold. It is that critical.

The local newspapers have really dropped a bollock here if you ask me, have a major story on their hands with this guy now being shown to be involved and essentially ignoring it as they are too scared to rock the boat with C&R it seems to me.

It’s taken a few people on Outlaws to do some cursory google searches of him to find really shady stuff going on, pull on that thread a little more I think you’d find some potentially serious potentially illegal goings on in our own council planning department,

Justin Dealey on BBC Radio seems to be the only person doing his job here and he is obviously constrained.

 

[Super_horns]

I did notice a few more anti-new ground letters from probably taxi drivers who weren't football fans complaining they feared fan behaviour and they were always held up in traffic after games..

This thread is 3 years old alone which kind of sums it up...

 

[Kenneth E End]

I did notice a few more anti-new ground letters from probably taxi drivers who weren't football fans complaining they feared fan behaviour and they were always held up in traffic after games..

This thread is 3 years old alone which kind of sums it up...

Said letter was faked and written by a C&R stooge. Written by "M Ahmed" with "Address supplied". Another letter written by someone else a week later faked by someone else who doesn't even appear to live in the town.

It is fake news - and a clear tactic that this person has used before in the fracking debate and Stansted Airport.

 

[Aberstone]

The council are incompetent - it's as simple as that. In the past 3 years since these plans were announced I've seen no improvements to a derelict and run down town centre, save for a couple of sub-standard university residential blocks being built. Nice of Capital & Regional to interject too, there £7 million investment pledge should be laughed out of the door, if they truly cared about this town then they wouldn't have needed the threat of Power Court and Newlands Park to put forward such a financial offer. As for their PR man, he's doing his job but it's truly despicable.

63 years and counting... I just hope these plans are approved in the very near future.

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

I’ve said before it’s too big of a planning application for the council to deal with.

Been a really eye opening experience to see such key planning decisions are essentially in the hands of well meaning amateurs and a host of companies and special interests.

The whole process seems massively open to abuse and corruption with a thin veneer of control to cover all that up to me.

 

[Kenneth E End]

So a minor update - a Luton Council backed quango "Luton BID" have reaffirmed their support for the two schemes at Power Court and Newlands Park, with certain conditions, which quite frankly are appalling and in essence prove they don't actually support it. They clearly fear that the increased competition will show their members up and are doing their best to water down the plans.

The key objective of Luton BID is: "To develop an energetic and entrepreneurial business community that is ambitious, innovative and always resourceful which connects, inspires and strengthens the business sector and creates cohesion, a vibrant town centre, a great visitor experience and a sense of pride in our town."

Their chairman was on local radio yesterday with a very vague and wishy washy statement - seemingly trying to save face and please everyone. Trying to defend the indefensible and something he doesn't believe in himself.

http://lutonbid.org/luton-bid-respo...-park-reference-number-16-01401-consultation/

They want:
-More office space in the town centre rather than flats - like there isn't a lot of office space already? And there isn't a shortage of homes at all in the SE!
-More parking at Power Court - there is, but surely more parking contradicts their own claim that the town centre on a Saturday would be mayhem. And C&R have had opportunities to rebuild a car park in the last 10 years and not done so.
-Change in the leisure offering at Newlands Park, i.e. not a cinema - they don't want it to better than the Galaxy. Not a difficult thing to achieve.
-Reduction in retail at Newlands Park - well considering the manager of the Mall (i.e. the key objector) is against it anyway, this was a given.
-Parity in parking charges - just in case they might undercut you?

A bullshit statement quite frankly - and I hope 2020 simply ignore it. What do they actually want to do? I see a lot of negatives and problems, but no positives and solutions.

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

Pretty much sums why the town is in such a state really. They dont want anything to be too good because it might force them to up their game from its pretty much non existent level.

Shows the contempt for which they hold the people of this town really, would rather maintain the dreadful status quo as its good for them at the moment. Simply no vision for actually improving things and making the town a better place to live for people.

Shame they cant see past the end of their noses and see that a failure to change will be the death of them.

 

[Kenneth E End]

The bottom line is that if this planning permission is rejected, the club cannot survive. Period.

Gary Sweet mentioned in a pre season interview that the club are now having to reserve money for litigation which eventually could have an impact on the pitch.

As a club, we’ve been fantastic in the transfer market. The investors have backed every manager and no man has had to do a job on a relative shoestring. The directors cannot keep putting their hand in their pocket forevermore. It has already cost us £20m operationally since they took over in 2008. There are also mortgages on 2 x £10m plots of land for this scheme. It’s time for the decision makers to recognise this and to actually contribute to LTFC’s success rather than feed off it when it suits.

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

Latest state of play seems to be that the local newspaper and the supporters (in particular Outlaws) are essentially in open war fare with each other over the apparent "fake news" in the form of fake letters that the Luton News seems to be printing over the stadium.

It is a known tactic of this C&R lobbyist, even making national press headlines over a similar issue years back, and indeed the Editor does seem to be a bit obstinate in her denials, however not sure that this will do any good for the club or the plans in openly provoking the local news outlets to be honest.

It would be great if they did an actual investigation to verify some of the alleged "dirty tactics" which are being employed but lets face it, local news doesnt work like that anymore and its pretty naive to think otherwise.

In the midst of this C&R have released a fairly laughable plan to improve the town centre that includes some child like drawings and not much else. All part of the delaying tactic - but the fact that this made front page news further to the annoyance of supporters.

For the moment i think it would be better if people got behind making a case FOR the developments rather than attacking local media, but emotions are running high.

 

[Northern1]

Dont forget the Harpur Centre objection too. The shopping centre in Bedford, a full 20 miles away from Luton.

Its an absolutely ridiculous state of affairs, whereby private enterprise is preventing a town that is in desperate need of regeneration for their own ends...and seemingly being allowed to do it.

Maybe rules going forward that firms who object have to pay something towards the costs commensurate top their size, to stop self serving frivilous objections

 

[iWomble]

We steadfastly refused to engage as a club with the Nimbys and their vehicle of choice for opposing the new stadium, which was an always fictitious redevelopment of the dog track on the site. Local paper continuously tried to pump up the 'conflict' because they haven't the slightest interest in actual news, just clickbait stories to earn advertising through page views.

Some of our fans leapt in with both feet and gave the objectors what they wanted in twitter wars and abusive comments on the local paper's website but for the most part we were extremely disciplined and ran an arms-length mobilisation through a fan-run website which focussed entirely on our own case with forms for easy submission of comments to planning portals etc. Proved a very effective tool.

http://bringthedonshome.org/

 

[Super_horns]

Of course you will probably find most of the naysayers won't be football fans who just see all of us as thugs who cause riots each week or take over local pubs etc.

I read one letter on the Luton situation which pretty much said that - "each week residents live in fear of disappointed supporters out to take their anger out on anyone"

Well I've not heard of mass violence after Luton games - and certainly the problems of criminal activity isn't exclusive to football in the area!