PL shit that doesn't need it's own thread.

[Nostracarmus]

Great post but utterly irrelevant to the discussion. If fans weren't concentrated around five or six clubs then good players and money wouldn't be either. It doesn't make football interesting, it kills the excitement and gives us Steve Mcmanaman earning yet more millions to tell Burton to "just have a go" at Anfield, and little Derek from Doncaster is a school boy bitch who needs to man up and learn that instant gratification isn't what we "left the caves for" and it isn't going to help him on the mean streets of his northern town.

Of course it added to the discussion. It's right there in black and white, has been replied to, and hasn't distracted from the original point.

The local clubs simply aren't doing enough to keep the attendance high, the onus is and should be on them to bring people in, you can't force anyone to support just because they have a postcode similar to the club. How is that right?

The only difference between our stances is that I blame the clubs themselves, and you blame the average football fan for taking their right to pick and choose.

Also your thoughts on "little school boy bitch" Derek and "manning up" and the language used to describe them is appalling, and part of a much bigger problem in the sport than local clubs dying out of an false expectation that doesn't corroborate with reality, and hasn't for a long, long time.

Abusing anyone who doesn't share your views like that can render your whole point invalid, and shows a lack of class. At the end of the day, these five or six clubs haven't just got lucky with all the fans, they've put the effort in over the years and earned them.

 

[johnnytodd]

I can get that sentiment, I do understand what you mean but I just don't share it.

Of course it added to the discussion. It's right there in black and white, has been replied to, and hasn't distracted from the original point.

The local clubs simply aren't doing enough to keep the attendance high, the onus is and should be on them to bring people in, you can't force anyone to support just because they have a postcode similar to the club. How is that right?

The only difference between our stances is that I blame the clubs themselves, and you blame the average football fan for taking their right to pick and choose.

Also your thoughts on "little school boy bitch" Derek and "manning up" and the language used to describe them is appalling, and part of a much bigger problem in the sport than local clubs dying out of an false expectation that doesn't corroborate with reality, and hasn't for a long, long time.

Abusing anyone who doesn't share your views like that can render your whole point invalid, and shows a lack of class. At the end of the day, these five or six clubs haven't just got lucky with all the fans, they've put the effort in over the years and earned them.

if you paid to watch your local club then they would have money to attract the rest of the town wouldnt they.......eh eh

 

[Nostracarmus]

if you paid to watch your local club then they would have money to attract the rest of the town wouldnt they.......eh eh

I'm not sure what point you're making with this, but no shit.

However, that still makes it the clubs fault. You can't force people to do anything they don't want to.

 

[Nostracarmus]

For the record, I'd love all local clubs to be successful. I may sound harsh, but it is what it is. People will not flock to support a team that doesn't care about them but expects them to attend.

 

[ThisTinpotLeague]

Of course it added to the discussion. It's right there in black and white, has been replied to, and hasn't distracted from the original point.

It has distracted from the original point, which was simply "if they supported these clubs, there wouldn't be an issue".

The local clubs simply aren't doing enough to keep the attendance high, the onus is and should be on them to bring people in, you can't force anyone to support just because they have a postcode similar to the club. How is that right?

I didn't advocate forcing anyone to do anything. Why did you act like I did?

That said, your view is blinkered. Clubs have the onus to do something, but it's a bit like claiming people on the Titanic needed to do more to save themselves. Small clubs make bad decisions sure, but the game is rigged in a "winner takes all" culture. People can't face the idea of going to work or school if their nominal team hasn't won in the last two games. They can't face the idea of turning off the tv and getting off their arses to do something. These are problems that extend far beyond football and asking Accrington Stanley to sort them out is absurd.

The only difference between our stances is that I blame the clubs themselves, and you blame the average football fan for taking their right to pick and choose.

I don't blame anyone, I point out facts and you pretend I say things that I dont.

Also your thoughts on "little school boy bitch" Derek and "manning up" and the language used to describe them is appalling, and part of a much bigger problem in the sport than local clubs dying out of an false expectation that doesn't corroborate with reality, and hasn't for a long, long time.

People like me fight so hard for the Milennial generation and then you post something like this and we realise we will never win.

Abusing anyone who doesn't share your views like that can render your whole point invalid, and shows a lack of class. At the end of the day, these five or six clubs haven't just got lucky with all the fans, they've put the effort in over the years and earned them.

And they've been good at the right time, with the advent of Pay TV. That said, didn't Chelsea and Man City get lucky? Why did they get benefactors over Leeds or Everton or Newcastle?

That said we shouldn't lose sight of you being offended about the "abuse" I directed at a made up fan.

I am sincerely distraught that you think I lack class. If you didn't take yourself so painfully seriously, I might do you the courtesy of pretending I cared.

 

[ThisTinpotLeague]

For the record, I'd love all local clubs to be successful. I may sound harsh, but it is what it is. People will not flock to support a team that doesn't care about them but expects them to attend.

Not sure what you expect but many people put in countless, often unpaid, hours into fan engagement at the lower end of the pyriamid. Saying they don't care because they don't offer a tyre partner in each Continent is about as bad as the rest of your argument.

 

[Nostracarmus]

That titanic point is way off. Absolutely miles away. I'd be blaming the crew for sailing straight into an iceberg that could have been avoided with a little care and attention.

You're totally right though, the bigger clubs must absolutely be punished for being in the right place at the right time, it's appalling behaviour. Burn them to the ground, the lucky bastards.

Did that seem ridiculous? It was.

As for having to "pretend you care", don't be silly. Multi quotes mean you definitely care so we're past that. I mean, you put the effort in to not only quote me, but edit my words too, that takes time.

I have the feeling we've discussed as much as we can now without you getting emotional. Thanks for the discussion. If you would like to trade insults and get that anger off your chest, feel free to PM me. I love a good shit flinging session.

 

[Nostracarmus]

Not sure what you expect but many people put in countless, often unpaid, hours into fan engagement at the lower end of the pyriamid. Saying they don't care because they don't offer a tyre partner in each Continent is about as bad as the rest of your argument.

That's why I said they don't care?

News to me. Don't put shit in my mouth, you wouldn't like it if someone squeezed one out in yours.

Also, I'm no millennial, I think you're just looking to release aggression here. I'm generation x.

 

[Renegade]

Man up Derek, you little school boy bitch.

 

[Nostracarmus]

Poor Derek.

 

[ThisTinpotLeague]

Poor Derek.

Show your support with a hashtag, that'll sort the world's ills.

People will not flock to support a team that doesn't care about them but expects them to attend

Here's where you said they don't care. They do. People go out of their way to reward fans who turn out and support a team and to show that the club values their efforts. That's not why Derek doesn't go. He doesn't go because he needs a 3-0 win to make him feel like the snowflake he is.

I'm generation x.

Thanks for the housing bubble. Jeez you just get everything wrong.

 

[Nostracarmus]

As a Swedish Liverpool supporter I'm not sure I can add much that hasn't been said, but here's my view on it.

I grew up in a 100k town in Sweden where icehockey was the dominant sport by miles, as the second most successful club in the country comes from my hometown. Me as a football nerd started attending football matches when I was four or five. At first my dad took me, but from about the age of seven I started going on my own. However, my local team was at the time in the Swedish third tier, which needless to say wasn't televised at the time. I missed a handful of games in total from those years up until I was 17 or 18 and other priorities got in the way, although I still attended 80% of the home matches at least. I travel pretty much constantly nowadays and my only permanent home is in Stockholm, but I still renew my season ticket every year to support the club. They did spend 12 years in the top tier but are now in the second tier, which is still kind of above their weight. Their average attendance a good year is 3k-ish.

Parallell to this I've supported Liverpool for pretty much as long as I can remember. There's a bunch of reasons for that but the main one would be that while my local club and their rivals never, ever were on the telly, Liverpool were on every single week, more so than any other foreign club in the world. So from around the same age as I started attending football matches in real life, I made a habit of watching on the telly as well and that was Liverpool or the Swedish top tier. I had zero affiliation with either, so choosing to watch Liverpool was kind of the same thing as choosing Bayern vs Barcelona over Moscow vs Maribor in the Champions League.

It took a while longer to develop any kind of support for Liverpool but it developed pretty much in the same way it did for my local club. You watch, you get to know the players, you listen to analysis and you start feeling affiliated with the club. Now when I'm older, I wouldn't say I feel any more for my hometown club than I do for Liverpool, but the feelings are different. My first memory in life is from the stands in my hometown, not in Liverpool. But to feel affiliated with a club you follow isn't very strange, and at the age of 7 or 8 you grow fond of things very easily. Nowadays I'm not as passionate for either as I could be when I was 16 or 17, but I see no reason to stop following and supporting either. I genuinely don't think I could.

That sounds absolutely fine to me mate.

 

[Nostracarmus]

Show your support with a hashtag, that'll sort the world's ills.



Here's where you said they don't care. They do. People go out of their way to reward fans who turn out and support a team and to show that the club values their efforts. That's not why Derek doesn't go. He doesn't go because he needs a 3-0 win to make him feel like the snowflake he is.



Thanks for the housing bubble. Jeez you just get everything wrong.

That was the baby boomers.

Do you actually know anything at all? I'm in the exact same boat with housing.

Tell me why Hyde FC haven't failed then, they hardly ever win, let alone 3-0. They still have great support, including someone from London that I know of.

 

[ThisTinpotLeague]

Tell me why Hyde FC haven't failed then, they hardly ever win, let alone 3-0. They still have great support, including someone from London that I know of.

Ignoring an anecdote being a terrible way to make a point, I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say here. To use Hyde as a meaningful reference would require detailed information on their finance and attendances and fan initiatives relative to the rest of the club's around them. I have neither the time nor the inclination to look at that.

That said, didn't Hyde shoot to prominence when Man City sponsored them? Another club rises the leagues due to the benefactor lottery and surprise! A bunch of people start to tag along after.

As for the housing bubble, you lot borrowed too much. And you chose to add a smug insult? What happened to your high horse and that being the biggest threat to football?

 

[AFCB_Mark]

As a Bournemouth fan I've seen both sides of the coin, lower league anonymity and top flight bright lights and microcosmic media coverage.

If Bournemouth got busted back down to League One, it wouldn't matter how hard the club worked, the media both local and national would instantly turn from fawning over the club to not giving a damn again. And when there's little or zero coverage of your club, the only route into knowing or caring about it's existence and getting any information about it is having someone in your family or friends who goes every week. That's the old fashioned way, and in the lower leagues still mostly the only way, that new support gets brought into a club.

Sure there's some stuff smaller clubs can do with youth and community work, cheap or free tickets and sending representatives into schools and clubs with free merchendise. But the Premier League clubs do all that as well. And how many kids are going to pay attention to the Leyton Orient player coming into their class this week with tickets and shirts, when there's a West Ham player coming in with tickets and shirts next week. Also the community work costs money, money that PL clubs are given specifically ringfenced for this work by the Premier League, and money which lower league clubs can ill afford in comparison.

The Premier League, and in particular the top half big clubs, are an absolute machine, honed to perfection over now decades of constant media work. For Bournemouth, only top flight (or at a push Championship) status gives us a look in, and no amount of hard work outside that gave us / would give us a significant dent into the hoovering up of local support via media onslaught by Man United and Liverpool, or to a smaller extent Southampton.

 

[Nostracarmus]

Ignoring an anecdote being a terrible way to make a point, I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say here. To use Hyde as a meaningful reference would require detailed information on their finance and attendances and fan initiatives relative to the rest of the club's around them. I have neither the time nor the inclination to look at that.

That said, didn't Hyde shoot to prominence when Man City sponsored them? Another club rises the leagues due to the benefactor lottery and surprise! A bunch of people start to tag along after.

As for the housing bubble, you lot borrowed too much. And you chose to add a smug insult? What happened to your high horse and that being the biggest threat to football?

Right, so you're not looking to discuss, just insult. Fair enough, I'm not going there though, that's not why I signed up here.

And despite me thankfully never having to take a loan out, I'm responsible for the housing market too, even though I don't have my own house either, ta indeed. Very relevant.

If anyone wants to discuss the subject at hand then I'm happy to. But, if all you're interested in doing is insulting me like this gentleman then I'm no longer going to respond. Take your angst out on someone else. I'm not to blame here, I just disagree on the source of the problem.

 

[ThisTinpotLeague]

A good sort of wind up, I must admit.

 

[Super_horns]

Seems Sky are still keen to see some teams play on the 24th December but not at or after 4pm.

https://twitter.com/The_FSF?ref_src...2017-18-premier-league-tv-fixtures-thread/p44

Suggestions are the games will be:

Leicester v Man U
Arsenal v Liverpool
West Ham v Newcastle.

Feel for the Liverpool and Newcastle fans if so - will hardly be any travel unless by car/coach and going to be a long day.

Guess football fans are the last ones thought of in all this!

 

[Stevencc]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41643718

G.B

 

[G.B]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41643718

G.B

Yeah, I read a couple of weeks back we could be sold by January but I'm refusing to get excited. Clubs been "up for sale" in the past but it does seem like he actually wants to sell for real this time. Trouble is the reported asking price is pretty ridiculous.

 

[G.B]

Dunno how the tax investigation will affect the club going forward either. No idea what sort of penalties we could be hit with if we're found to have done wrong.

 

[Stevencc]

 

[ThisTinpotLeague]

Guess football fans are the last ones thought of in all this!

Why do they bother playing the games at all then?

 

[JoshBCFC]

Why do they bother playing the games at all then?

 

[ThisTinpotLeague]

Where does that money come from?

 

[JoshBCFC]

Where does that money come from?

The fans.

Weird isn't it?

 

[ThisTinpotLeague]

The fans.

Weird isn't it?

Got there in the end

 

[Stevencc]

https://streamable.com/z2l31

 

[SALTIRE]

https://streamable.com/z2l31

Is Scholes having a mini-stroke? You could never tell looking at that face.

 

[Super_horns]

After all the fuss no games on 24th December