Question, would YOU as supporters support my tinpot chancers being in L2 next season?

[Son of Cod]

Those teams all finished in the relegation zone, so deserved to go down. Bury haven't finished anywhere near it, they have in effect finished bottom of league 1 so why should they be relegated twice?

Notts finished 23rd. The team that finishes there this season will survive. Why should they get to stay up when the likes of Notts, Mansfield, Lincoln, us, etc. had to go down? To save Bury, who not for the first time in the last 20 years or so went shit or bust for a promotion? No thanks.

 

[Chris FGR]

Notts finished 23rd. The team that finishes there this season will survive. Why should they get to stay up when the likes of Notts, Mansfield, Lincoln, us, etc. had to go down? To save Bury, who not for the first time in the last 20 years or so went shit or bust for a promotion? No thanks.

Exactly. Why should the team finishing 23rd stay up instead of Bury, who aren't even in league 2 this season? If Bury had finished 23rd in league 2 this season then they'd deserve to go down instead of whoever finishes there this season, but they haven't. They have in effect finished 24th in league 1. So why should they go down twice?

People are letting their historical bias against Bury cloud their thinking. If they sort themselves out they have every right to take up their place in league 2 next season. The past is irrelevent.

 

[Tom_CUFC]

Absolutely not, it's a terrible precedent to set and rewards financial negligence.

 

[JJ1532]

Exactly. Why should the team finishing 23rd stay up instead of Bury, who aren't even in league 2 this season? If Bury had finished 23rd in league 2 this season then they'd deserve to go down instead of whoever finishes there this season, but they haven't. So why should they go down twice?

You are asking the wrong question and looking at it the wrong way.

They were kicked out of the league, their membership withdrawn. The question should be, why should they be allowed back in? They can pay their creditors, clear all debts, get everything settled and join the pyramid in the lower levels and then fight their way back up.

And you ask why the team that finishes 23rd should stay up over Bury? Well, the answer is strikingly obvious. Because said team pays its bills. Maybe not always on time, like Oldham, Macc etc, but they pay them. The 23rd placed team is Stevenage. How is it right that they potentially lose their place in the league to a team that cheated its way to promotion, got kicked out because they didn't pay anyone anything owed and then got parachuted back in? Where is the justice in that.

 

[Chris FGR]

Bury have already been kicked out of league 1, and been denied the opportunity to play any matches or take part in the FA Cup. Isn't that punishment enough/a big enough deterrent?

They have gained nothing from last season's promotion, which other clubs are going to copy them after all this? No one will.

 

[Son of Cod]

Exactly. Why should the team finishing 23rd stay up instead of Bury, who aren't even in league 2 this season? If Bury had finished 23rd in league 2 this season then they'd deserve to go down instead of whoever finishes there this season, but they haven't. They have in effect finished 24th in league 1. So why should they go down twice?

People are letting their historical bias against Bury cloud their thinking. If they sort themselves out they have every right to take up their place in league 2 next season. The past is irrelevent.

I didn't say stay up instead of Bury. I don't have any historical bias against/towards Bury at all. It's not a Bury thing at all. In fact, I'd say that on the whole my feelings towards Bury are substantially more positive than they are negative.

Bury did not in effect finish 24th in League 1. The club was ran to such a degree of incompetence that they obliterated the position of 24th in League 2019/20 out of existence. League 2 is way shitter as a result of this. For me, that means they shouldn't be allowed back. Fair enough if you don't think so, we'll have to just agree to disagree.

Interesting how a supporter of a club who massively overspent to earn a place in the FL is willing to sweep such financial irregularities under the carpet though.

 

[Indian Dan]

Well, the EFL had better make its mind up. Bury won’t be the last club in this position. Everything hidden behind shortened accounts until the shit hits the fan.

Get clubs financially audited on a regular basis and those who may be approaching shit creek at the moment may have time to sort themselves out.

As for Bury being reinstated. A big no.

 

[JJ1532]

Bury have already been kicked out of league 1, and been denied the opportunity to play any matches or take part in the FA Cup. Isn't that punishment enough/a big enough deterrent?

They have gained nothing from last season's promotion, which other clubs are going to copy them after all this? No one will.

If teams are allowed to just jump back in in L2, then yes, loads of teams will, knowing their place in the FL is safe. Even the big Championship teams will know that they can cock it all up, drop 2 leagues and probably be back at the feeding trough in 3-4 seasons max.

You say they gained nothing from promotion? If they end up back in L2 safe as houses, they will have. Because if this had come to a head last season and they had been stopped from going up, resulting in them being in this mess in L2, would we even be having this conversation?

Say they were kicked out of L2 and the relegation spots reduced to one. Would there be any case for allowing them back in? No. But in getting promoted, they are now gaining favour to be allowed back into the FL next season. So that's the benefit.

 

[Chris FGR]

Interesting how a supporter of a club who massively overspent to earn a place in the FL is willing to sweep such financial irregularities under the carpet though.

I didn't want Northwich or Salisbury kicked out when we got reprieved, I even signed a petition to stop them being kicked out, even though it meant us going down. We finished in the relegation zone and so deserved to go down. If we finish 23rd this season and Bury get put back in league 2, I'd quite happily accept it. The rules were perfectly clear at the start of the season, bottom 2 go down.

We did overspend in the NL, however we never defaulted on any payments in the process and no local businesses or players ever went unpaid. And having made a profit last year, we're running with a very much reduced budget these days anyway. Just look at the profile of our squad. If we do badly enough to finish in the bottom 2, we'll deserve to go down irregardless of Bury, who aren't taking part in this division As will anyone else who finishes there.

 

[Deepcut Cobbler]

Should Mansfield now be promoted to League 1 because that's the place Bury took through their overspending/cheating?
When an Olympic medallist is found guilty of cheating, their medal is withdrawn and then goes to the one placed below them and so on...

 

[Deepcut Cobbler]

We did overspend in the NL, however we never defaulted on any payments in the process and no local businesses or players ever went unpaid.

Good for you, that is the baseline, Bury didn't achieve that...

 

[Chris FGR]

Good for you, that is the baseline, Bury didn't achieve that...

Which is why the rules should be changed to make sure all clubs do. But those rules weren't in place at the time when Bury failed to pay their bills, so to backdate a punishment is unfair.

Or should all clubs with a history of financial mismanagement all be kicked out too next summer?

Clear regulations need to be put in place so that a proper fit and proper persons test is conducted before any takeover, fan representation is on every board and the EFL works closely with all clubs to make sure they meet all their financial obligations. Fail and loss of their license to play professional football should be the punishment, suspended for 1 year. Then there are no arguments, no grey areas.

 

[James Frost]

It’s an awful time for Bury fans but two wrongs don’t make a right & it would be wrong to allow Bury to drop only to League 2 in my view.

The EFL need to be more flexible as to when they apply the points deduction of 12 points. My recollection is that they stopped applying the deduction in the same season to stop clubs applying for administration tactically once they were safe from relegation.

If a club stops paying their players wages sanctions should be allowed to apply in either the same or the next season. The 12 point deduction should have applied last season & Mansfield should have gone up instead of Bury.

 

[Chris FGR]

If Bury deserve to be kicked out, why don't Bolton or Macclesfield?

 

[Trapdoor]

Fuck no. Get out.

 

[Bottega Don]

If Bury deserve to be kicked out, why don't Bolton or Macclesfield?

Because neither of those clubs had their FL licenses revoked?

 

[Fedora Dale]

Those teams all finished in the relegation zone, so deserved to go down. Bury haven't finished anywhere near it, they have in effect finished bottom of league 1 so why should they be relegated twice?

They aren't being relegated at all. Sadly, they've been expelled. There's a difference.

 

[Dan_Macclad]

Let them back in and the EFL have a full review on football finances and take a strong stance on all clubs playing with fire... Including our toolbag of an owner.

This shit needs regulating properly. Bury should be a wake up call not an example.

 

[Conker]

Under no circumstances would it be acceptable to let Bury rejoin the EFL in my opinion.

 

[Buxton Vale]

No, really sorry, but it puts the wrong message out for clubs who want to do similar without fear of punishment when it goes badly wrong.

 

[Chris FGR]

No, really sorry, but it puts the wrong message out for clubs who want to do similar without fear of punishment when it goes badly wrong.

But they have been punished.

 

[Crewelad87]

I think if I was a Bury fan I'd want a fresh start. A phoenix club, owned by the fans, debt free. Start from the bottom and enjoy your journey. The current club Bury FC certainly shouldn't be allowed in the EFL next season.

 

[Chris FGR]

I think if I was a Bury fan I'd want a fresh start. A phoenix club, owned by the fans, debt free. Start from the bottom and enjoy your journey. The current club Bury FC certainly shouldn't be allowed in the EFL next season.

What is the difference between Bury and Bolton?

Why should Bury be made an example of, when so many other clubs have done exactly the same thing?

If they get kicked out, so should every other club that have been in financial trouble. Even if they're now under new ownership.

 

[Crewelad87]

What is the difference between Bury and Bolton?

Why should Bury be made an example of, when so many other clubs have done exactly the same thing?

If they get kicked out, so should every other club that have been in financial trouble. Even if they're now under new ownership.

Bury were unable to even play there scheduled games, and no takeover within deadline set by the EFL which had already been extended countless times. There has to become a point where enough is enough, what do you expect the EFL to do, let bury keep calling games off until Christmas? Bolton look to have got away with it for now but only by the finest of margins.

 

[Bottega Don]

What is the difference between Bury and Bolton?

Why should Bury be made an example of, when so many other clubs have done exactly the same thing?

If they get kicked out, so should every other club that have been in financial trouble. Even if they're now under new ownership.

I don't understand how you're not getting this.

No club that has been in financial trouble reached the level that Bury did. From my understanding, most clubs in this position (Bolton etc) were in Administration and then negotiated a CVA. This meant they had to be deducted points, this has happened to loads of clubs and happened to Bury. However, Steve Dale failed to provide the EFL with the necessary information despite being asked on numerous occasions. He then had a deadline to sell the club and that deadline was not met. Bolton met their deadline and were sold.

 

[Deepcut Cobbler]

Which is why the rules should be changed to make sure all clubs do. But those rules weren't in place at the time when Bury failed to pay their bills, so to backdate a punishment is unfair.

Or should all clubs with a history of financial mismanagement all be kicked out too next summer?

Clear regulations need to be put in place so that a proper fit and proper persons test is conducted before any takeover, fan representation is on every board and the EFL works closely with all clubs to make sure they meet all their financial obligations. Fail and loss of their license to play professional football should be the punishment, suspended for 1 year. Then there are no arguments, no grey areas.

In October/November 2015 We were threatened with administration, expulsion and an imminent winding up order when we were struggling over the 'missing £10m' loan from the council. We weren't paying the club staff, the players or HMRC however we retrieved the situation within the given timeline, as have Bolton. We were allowed to continue as a member of the Football League and won the league that season. We also weren't spending beyond our means on players that we couldn't afford.
Bury failed to do that.

 

[valefan16]

Be interesting to see what other clubs actually think of this, I guess most league two sides would reject it... some teams still angry at last season who missed out and some teams who could feel they will struggle wanting to keep it down to one spot for the drop.

League One clubs could go either way. Well run smaller clubs like Stanley and Wycombe probably would reject it. Bolton may sympathise and the Championship sides probably couldn’t give a toss either way!

 

[E10rifle]

Pretty successful WUM from Chris, here.

 

[PuB]

Am I right in thinking that this Chris is a bit of a wally?

 

[EricSabin]

Nah not for me. No point in punishing them to then turn round and change your mind and contradict yourself. Personally I think the EFL will agree to them in League 2 next year because of the stick they’ve copped.