The 4-2-3-1 is killing football

[AtaturkOzgutson]

I see nothing wrong with it when executed correctly, it can be the fluid attack of City or Dortmund and co, the more pragmatic Man U approach, or something between the two, like Spurs perhaps. .

Anyway, to an extent I think the prevelence of it is also down to what seems like a trend (especially this season) of clubs only having one 'out and out striker. Spurs only have Kane, United only Rooney etc.

 

[G-Dragon]

I agree. I think Vardy will just be a one season wonder. Decent player, nothing more.

 

[JoshBCFC]

I saw Vardy play against Lithuania, I could score against Lithuania, he's good but he's not top pl quality

Do you really think you can go on to the forum and make a judgement about a player when you've only seen him play once during a national game that meant fuck all?

And by your logic...

A striker scores 30 goals this season, and has done the past seasons.

However, he scored none from outside the box.

Would you sell him because of a "lack of talent" ?

 

[elnino65]

You want excitement yet you want top 4 dominance. You write a players ability off despite clearly not watching him play. Granted you've credited Leicester for playing a different formation, but no doubt also see Leicester as a bunch of workmanlike players who are at the top thanks to a 'great team spirit' and a string of easy fixtures and luck. You don't want Klopp to use the tactics that he's used before which made Dortmund champions and got them to a CL final because the formation is results oriented? You want results and you want exciting football, but maybe Klopp doesn't have the players to do both. Maybe he does, and maybe he does in a 4-2-3-1.

LOl you tell me off for not watching Vardy enough. but you've obviously not watched liverpool: "You want results and you want exciting football, but maybe Klopp doesn't have the players to do both. Maybe he does, and maybe he does in a 4-2-3-1." - you think we can score 3 at the bridge, 4 at the etihad (a total they haven't conceded there for 12 years and could and should of been more) and 6 at saint marys yet barely score 1 against swasnea (a side leicester just put 3 past). you're funny man we dominated teams like west ham at anfield last season and were comfortable winners in a 3-4-2-1/3-4-3, which now sturridge is back could easily be replicated. We're going to drop points at home, if we continue with the 4-2-3-1, we're destined for a bad draw eventually, or even a loss, we've only taken the lead once in the past three matches at anfield. If you watched liverpool at anfield you'd see after we take the lead in the 4-2-3-1, we sit back and don't look to extend our lead. Something which I find distasteful as a liverpool fan. You make it sound like Klopp was the only one to invent the 4-2-3-1, again very funny. I have some advice for you watch liverpool in 2009 champions league vs real madrid. 4-0, look at how liverpool won the ball high up the field, similar to gegenpress. If it were up to you Liverpool would be trying to improve in the 4-2-3-1, you'd be signing a right sided attack mid/forward, as Liverpool have been trying to do through looking at Ayew, and Lanzini etc. BORRRING

Leicester are playing like a team, they have confidence, great chemistry, and it is very workmanlike - they show no signs of letting up. The premier league rewards consistency, there is nothing more to it so far. Leicester have been consistent. As Lineker mentioned a lot of vardy's goals have come late, so luck does play a part in getting results. Look at Man City's goal difference, it just shows how poor the standard is this season.

 

[elnino65]

Do you really think you can go on to the forum and make a judgement about a player when you've only seen him play once during a national game that meant fuck all?

And by your logic...

A striker scores 30 goals this season, and has done the past seasons.

However, he scored none from outside the box.

Would you sell him because of a "lack of talent" ?

I just mentioned the international because it has been the time I've watched him in most detail, obviously I've seen clips of his goals on match on the day. If the premier league was of any quality this season (comparable to previous seasons), you and I both know, the winner of the golden boot would be scoring at least 1 goal from outside the area, as a mark of what quality they possess, to beat a keeper from 20+ yards. Past seasons? When's that then 1980's? We're not in the 1980's this is the premier league and you don't just judge a player on the types of goals he is scoring. Which I'm not, I'm not making a value judgement, you put him in a top club and he would be on the bench. A team has to suit a players style, leicester do just that. Liverpool are even struggling with benteke to make him fit their style.

 

[elnino65]

If you're a football purist and like exciting football may I suggest watching Leicester city.

that's a bit snide, and if I where a football purist why would I condone a team who is not highly established in the premier league topping it? I think we have different ideas and definitions of what a football purist is meant to be, no doubt people will probably back you up though in your definition.

Finally, someone to step into Rooney's boots.

we have sturridge and kane, what's the big deal?

 

[elnino65]

Yeah we play 4-2-3-1 and play very exciting football.

Yeah we play 4-2-3-1 and play very exciting football.

and how long does your team intend on playing 4-2-3-1? until it comes up against 4-4-2 diamond and gets beat 6-1 like southampton lost to liverpool by

 

[JimJams]

So your post reading ability is about on par with your judgement.

 

[elnino65]

So your post reading ability is about on par with your judgement.

rude, seems like your open mindedness is on par with your ego

 

[JimJams]

Well if you want to quote me and take my post apart then I'd ask that you at least read it first and have that reflected in your response than just throw out a load of guff that wasn't said or intimated in the original post.

 

[elnino65]

Well if you want to quote me and take my post apart then I'd ask that you at least read it first and have that reflected in your response than just throw out a load of guff that wasn't said or intimated in the original post.

You implied klopp can't use any other formation to get results at home, and implied I thought leicester were only a workmanlike team, the reason why I think they are top. I replied. It's a good kop out, criticizing the response instead of responding in a reasonable way.

sorry, but how is any of what I've typed in the response also intimated in the original post? hang on, I don't care, even if the slightest thing is, it's irrelevant to this discussion as a whole.

 

[JimJams]

You implied klopp can't use any other formation to get results at home, and implied I thought leicester were only a workmanlike team, the reason why I think they are top. I replied. It's a good kop out, criticizing the response instead of responding in a reasonable way.

"You want results and you want exciting football, but maybe Klopp doesn't have the players to do both. Maybe he does, and maybe he does in a 4-2-3-1."
That's what that says to you is it?

 

[elnino65]

"You want results and you want exciting football, but maybe Klopp doesn't have the players to do both. Maybe he does, and maybe he does in a 4-2-3-1."
That's what that says to you is it?

well liverpool aren't exciting in the 4-2-3-1, regardless of whether I mis-read it or not, can you please get to the point. instead of like one of the previous guys trying to find fault my with english skills... and linking that to my judgement

 

[JimJams]

I think I made my point.
Anyway regardless of the fact that you don't find it entertaining I'm sure the majority of Liverpool fans find it much more entertaining under Klopp than previously under Rodgers (post Suarez) and if thrashings of top clubs are interspersed with dropped points to the likes of Norwich or Bournemouth here and there, while it might be frustrating at the time I'm pretty confident most fans will be quite happy with that.

 

[elnino65]

I think I made my point.
Anyway regardless of the fact that you don't find it entertaining I'm sure the majority of Liverpool fans find it much more entertaining under Klopp than previously under Rodgers (post Suarez) and if thrashings of top clubs are interspersed with dropped points to the likes of Norwich or Bournemouth here and there, while it might be frustrating at the time I'm pretty confident most fans will be quite happy with that.

Yeah it's more entertaining under Klopp than rodgers, at least rodgers went to a back 3, and had liverpool had more time to adapt to that formation, we would be entertaining at anfield. scored 3 past villa, with 2 freak goals conceded, from preventable crosses, should and could of scored 5 past norwich at home in a 1-1 draw. It was the final straw with rodgers for me when he played the first team in back 3/5 against a kazan side who aren't going to score. With a back 3, or with a front 2, we're more in control of our matches, in a 4-2-3-1, no matter how well we perform we're still liable to only getting a draw in a game we should be winning. Almost happened against swansea were it not for a lucky penalty.
It seems liverpool fans are only unconcerned about our home form until it goes wrong. but you're right a few dropped points here and there shouldn't deprive us of a top four finish, I do believe we can challenge though, which is why it would be good if we can get a winning run going, instead of just an unbeaten run. but what's to stop a team coming to anfield and playing the 4 diamond 2 as klopp calls it, and gives us a thumping and destroy our confidence though?

 

[Laker]

Tactics and formations are overrated. Man management is a far greater factor in a team's performance.

Discuss.

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

elnino65. Riyad Mahrez, discuss.

 

[Veggie Legs]

Ipswich play 4-4-2 every week (even if we've got three strikers and three central midfielders on the pitch), you should come to Portman Road.

 

[elnino65]

Tactics and formations are overrated. Man management is a far greater factor in a team's performance.

Discuss.

tactics and formations are responsible for 60% of the results there has ever been in football. You might call what klopp has done is great man management, but I think he's just given belief to the team as a whole through his man management, that has been more impactful. Can one mans man-management be so great he makes an entire team play better? I think his individual man management and hard work in training, has such a knock-on effect even if 1 player starts producing what they can.

Similarly to having one quality like suarez, upfront, all of a sudden, goals where coming from all areas of the team, especially near the back end of the 13/14 season, other players were playing out of their skin. Even Sterling was filling his boots, and we all know he's not the best finisher, although he is capable of cracking a ball in from range, as we saw vs norwich for lfc. Suarez helped sterling become a great number 10. Infact, sterling picked up the highest rating in europe this season for city in that position so far, of 9.03 of something, scored a hat trick there, but average manager, pellegrini, hasn't used him there again.

 

[JoeJoeJoeJoe]

and how long does your team intend on playing 4-2-3-1? until it comes up against 4-4-2 diamond and gets beat 6-1 like southampton lost to liverpool by

Well we came up against a 4-4-2 diamond against the team that was then top of the league and beat them 4-1. Due to us actually having a good manager who has put together a squad that fits the formation and is able to implement it, it's working for us.

 

[elnino65]

elnino65. Riyad Mahrez, discuss.

Mahrez is one of leicesters key players. Key players for teams do get a lot of assists and goals. Look at Henderson last year for Liverpool. Mahrez is a talisman for Leicester, it's harder to argue that he's not a great player though, than it is with vardy, as it's rare to find a midfielder be so outstanding. I do believe Ryhad has a lot of quality, it's hard to gauge where he is at, but he does have a knack of being able to get on the end of balls in the box, and for Leicester he has been crucial, as have all his team mates who have been wicked this season. Belief and team chemistry in football is under rated.

 

[elnino65]

Well we came up against a 4-4-2 diamond against the team that was then top of the league and beat them 4-1. Due to us actually having a good manager who has put together a squad that fits the formation and is able to implement it, it's working for us.

that's surprising, what league?

 

[JoeJoeJoeJoe]

that's surprising, what league?

League one.

 

[elnino65]

League one.

your team must be good at operating in the 4-2-3-1 then, even though I'm less surprised now.

 

[JoeJoeJoeJoe]

your team must be good at operating in the 4-2-3-1 then, even though I'm less surprised now.

Also, Chelsea won the league comfortably last year using it.

 

[elnino65]

Also, Chelsea won the league comfortably last year using it.

please, by that logic, they should be doing as well this season, since they walked to it last year, oh wait

 

[AtaturkOzgutson]

This thread makes me genuinely despair.

Such ignorance combined with such vociferous certainty. It's these people that scream at a manager to make an obvious change and get people sacked.

 

[elnino65]

This thread makes me genuinely despair.

Such ignorance combined with such vociferous certainty. It's these people that scream at a manager to make an obvious change and get people sacked.

this formation makes me genuinely despair. It's these people that will make sure that English clubs will not be a force in Europe and leave Spanish clubs to keep making the CL a more exclusive, lesser tournament. - a much worse prospect, than what he's suggesting I and people who agree with my notion apparently do

 

[AtaturkOzgutson]

Are you on a personal mission to get the high score for 'sheer volume of fallacious statements' on one thread?

 

[AtaturkOzgutson]

I really don't have the time to dissect the various contradictory notions you've floated, so I will leave you with a question.

If the CL is becoming a closed shop of a few clubs from outside England, what do two of the three contenders play with as their formation?