The Coalition of Expensive Chaos

[Benji]

Not sure it does wind the Tories up, because the Tory party itself was heavily split on fox hunting and under a free Whip vote it would have failed. I reckon there was never any intention of loosening the fox hunting law.

I think the Tory hierarchy picked the issue knowing full well that the SNP would weigh in on this one, and thus it would stoke the fires for English votes / English laws which in the bigger picture is a million miles more important to them given the size of the Tory margin in England.

The second the SNP opened fire, Cameron was straight out talking about EVEL. I don't think he even mentioned fox hunting once

If it becomes English votes / English Laws, wouldn't it follow that Scottish votes / Scottish Laws? Which is very much in SNP's favour.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

If it becomes English votes / English Laws, wouldn't it follow that Scottish votes / Scottish Laws? Which is very much in SNP's favour.

Well yeah. hence the Smith Commission...that's all already happening.

 

[Dave-Vale]

After watching Mhiari Black's speech I genuinely want to move to Scotland.

Hope her and the SNP give the Tories absolute hell over the next few years.

 

[Alty]

After watching Mhiari Black's speech I genuinely want to move to Scotland.

Hope her and the SNP give the Tories absolute hell over the next few years.

Don't come back crying when you realise an independent Scotland can't fund the utopia the SNP constantly describes.

 

[Dave-Vale]

Don't come back crying when you realise an independent Scotland can't fund the utopia the SNP constantly describes.

I very much doubt they'll ever become fully independent. I just strongly agree with her sentiments regarding the Welfare State. The story she tells of a grown man starving himself and falling apart in front of her was horrible and isn't something that should be happening in any country in the 21st century, especially a developed one.

 

[Red]

Don't come back crying when you realise an independent Scotland can't fund the utopia the SNP constantly describes.

If he moved tomorrow he wouldn't be living in an independent Scotland.

 

[Red]

Don't come back crying when you realise an independent Scotland can't fund the utopia the SNP constantly describes.

If he moved tomorrow he wouldn't be living in an independent Scotland.

 

[Alty]

If he moved tomorrow he wouldn't be living in an independent Scotland.

I assumed he wanted to move to Scotland because he bought into Mhairi Black's vision for the nation. If he just wants to hear her complaining about how shit life is in Paisley he can do that from Stoke, can he not?

That story she told about the guy missing his appointment at the job centre because he hadn't eaten or drunk anything for 5 days is clearly utter, utter bollocks, btw. Having been in the position myself I'm sympathetic to the plight of the unemployed and there's a clearly an eagerness to sanction among some particularly vindictive DWP employees, but if you're going to use anecdotes it might be an idea to go for something just vaguely plausible.

 

[Dave-Vale]

I assumed he wanted to move to Scotland because he bought into Mhairi Black's vision for the nation. If he just wants to hear her complaining about how shit life is in Paisley he can do that from Stoke, can he not?

That story she told about the guy missing his appointment at the job centre because he hadn't eaten or drunk anything for 5 days is clearly utter, utter bollocks, btw. Having been in the position myself I'm sympathetic to the plight of the unemployed and there's a clearly an eagerness to sanction among some particularly vindictive DWP employees, but if you're going to use anecdotes it might be an idea to go for something just vaguely plausible.

You know that story is bollocks as much as I know it's real.

Simply because you may have had a good experience with the DWP doesn't mean everybody does. There are plenty of horror stories about some of the disgusting sanctions they've put in place on very vulnerable people.

 

[Alty]

You know that story is bollocks as much as I know it's real.

Simply because you may have had a good experience with the DWP doesn't mean everybody does. There are plenty of horror stories about some of the disgusting sanctions they've put in place on very vulnerable people.

I haven't had a good experience with DWP. When I went to the job centre I found them well-meaning but basically of absolutely no assistance in finding a job.

I can well believe someone was sanctioned for turning up slightly late and I completely agree it's unnecessarily draconian. But the cock and bull story about the thing that caused him to be late being his inability to eat for 5 days is clearly total nonsense. It's the kind of stupid story a kid at school gives for having not done their homework.

 

[Red]

I haven't had a good experience with DWP. When I went to the job centre I found them well-meaning but basically of absolutely no assistance in finding a job.

I can well believe someone was sanctioned for turning up slightly late and I completely agree it's unnecessarily draconian. But the cock and bull story about the thing that caused him to be late being his inability to eat for 5 days is clearly total nonsense. It's the kind of stupid story a kid at school gives for having not done their homework.

There's a difference between them being shit in terms of what they do, or rather what they fail to do, and treating people like shit. You said yourself you found them well meaning and I'm glad they were for you, but the experience for a lot of other people is very different. As for the example cited if you find it hard to believe having heard other cases like it in my view it's very plausible. I used to do outreach in 4 jcps in Sheffield and overheard some advisers talking to people like they're sub human. I'm not talking just about young people who pitched up stoned that clearly didn't want work but people from all walks of life. I know somebody who had an appointment at the jcp, not to sign on though. She arrived at her allotted time but the adviser had forgotten and gone on her lunch. The woman went away and was later sanctioned despite doing what was asked of her. It was subsequently overturned at appeal. So no, I don't think it's far fetched

 

[Alty]

There's a difference between them being shit in terms of what they do, or rather what they fail to do, and treating people like shit. You said yourself you found them well meaning and I'm glad they were for you, but the experience for a lot of other people is very different. As for the example cited if you find it hard to believe having heard other cases like it in my view it's very plausible. I used to do outreach in 4 jcps in Sheffield and overheard some advisers talking to people like they're sub human. I'm not talking just about young people who pitched up stoned that clearly didn't want work but people from all walks of life. I know somebody who had an appointment at the jcp, not to sign on though. She arrived at her allotted time but the adviser had forgotten and gone on her lunch. The woman went away and was later sanctioned despite doing what was asked of her. It was subsequently overturned at appeal. So no, I don't think it's far fetched

I think you need to re-read my posts. I don't find the idea that DWP employees can be unpleasant far-fetched at all.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

oh dear the next 'siege of Carlisle' will be happening in afew years.....should be fun.

SNP now talking about spreading their influence beyond the Scottish borders, I am guessing it means putting SNP into areas like Carlisle......should be a very nasty fight in the area which should at least be a lot of fun in afew years.

 

[Alty]

oh dear the next 'siege of Carlisle' will be happening in afew years.....should be fun.

SNP now talking about spreading their influence beyond the Scottish borders, I am guessing it means putting SNP into areas like Carlisle......should be a very nasty fight in the area which should at least be a lot of fun in afew years.

I really don't think so.

 

[mowgli]

I haven't had a good experience with DWP. When I went to the job centre I found them well-meaning but basically of absolutely no assistance in finding a job.

I can well believe someone was sanctioned for turning up slightly late and I completely agree it's unnecessarily draconian. But the cock and bull story about the thing that caused him to be late being his inability to eat for 5 days is clearly total nonsense. It's the kind of stupid story a kid at school gives for having not done their homework.

I've had to deal with the bastards for the last 5 years and i've always had a bad time with them, doesn't help that my ex wife works for the DWP!

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

I really don't think so.

a lot of Scots live in Carlisle.....if they ever wished to nick an English area its a good bet.

although there is a lot of Anti-SNP sentiment on the borders due to both English and Scottish relying on each other here, hense why borders is only area tories get.

 

[blade1889]

Completely hypothetical but suppose the SNP did start to have candidates in England and were able to form a government. If they got independence for Scotland what would they do? Take part of England with them?

 

[Red]

I think you need to re-read my posts. I don't find the idea that DWP employees can be unpleasant far-fetched at all.

We've got a misunderstanding here because you've not read my post properly. I didn't say that you were saying that advisers being arseholes is farfetched, I was disagreeing with you saying it was farfetched about the case the man who had not eaten for five days.

 

[Alty]

We've got a misunderstanding here because you've not read my post properly. I didn't say that you were saying that advisers being arseholes is farfetched, I was disagreeing with you saying it was farfetched about the case the man who had not eaten for five days.

The vast majority of your post was talking about DWP. The one sentence you dedicated to the applicant's story just stated you found it plausible. Come on man, it's fanciful. He may have been unlucky with his journey. He might have set off late because he's disorganised. Or he might have made the whole thing up. But I do not believe for one second that the bloke missed his appointment because the state is trying to starve him to death and he just happened to collapse shortly before his interview. Do me a fucking favour.

 

[Dan_Macclad]

I spend most of my time out on the front line and observing the evils of poverty.. When the benefit sanctions hit people can go days without eating.. Especially those who haven't got a clue how to use a food bank.

The scary thing is that even in this country in this day of age nothing surprises me anymore.

 

[Abertawe]

The vast majority of your post was talking about DWP. The one sentence you dedicated to the applicant's story just stated you found it plausible. Come on man, it's fanciful. He may have been unlucky with his journey. He might have set off late because he's disorganised. Or he might have made the whole thing up. But I do not believe for one second that the bloke missed his appointment because the state is trying to starve him to death and he just happened to collapse shortly before his interview. Do me a fucking favour.

You speak with such certainty yet you have as much idea as to the validity of the facts as anyone else does, that being fuck all idea. People are left to go starving for days on end due to said sanctions. The full benefit amount doesn't stretch enough to ensure a person with no safety net doesn't go hungry, let alone someone on a sanction.

A few questions if I may.
What's the most amount of days you've gone without food?
What's the longest amount of time you've spent on your own?
Have you suffered from trauma caused by starvation & isolation?

If a man hasn't eaten for days and has spent days on end in isolation with only his own thoughts for company, is it really that far fetched to suggest the human body & mind is going to close down when asked to perform functions that go outside it's imposed survival mode state?

Catching a bus to an appointment might be an everyday thing of normality for most. For someone who has spent the best part of a week in physical & mental turmoil it's perhaps a recipe for disaster.

 

[Dan_Macclad]

Absolutely...

I'm sure everyone who has experienced depression or other mental health difficulties can acknowledge that leaving the house can be the equivalent of climbing Everest..

Life on welfare is hard enough, but for the most vulnerable it's hell.. and we wonder why so many see drug and alcohol misuse, even suicide as the only way to be free.

This isn't left wing nonsense, this is actual life for many people.

 

[mowgli]

Absolutely...

I'm sure everyone who has experienced depression or other mental health difficulties can acknowledge that leaving the house can be the equivalent of climbing Everest..

Life on welfare is hard enough, but for the most vulnerable it's hell.. and we wonder why so many see drug and alcohol misuse, even suicide as the only way to be free.

This isn't left wing nonsense, this is actual life for many people.

The best post i've seen on this subject.

 

[Womble98]

http://www.howardleague.org/criminal-courts-charge/

Interesting read on another fuckup by the government.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Such an awful bunch of c*** http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33850247

 

[Dave-Vale]

Heard this on the radio earlier. Absolute disgrace if this gets through.

There will be thousands of kids and babies going hungry. And no, it isn't justifiable by saying that the parents should have thought about that before having the child.

 

[Red]

If there are any Tory voters affected by this and there will be it serves them fucking right.

 

[Gladders]

Only ones to blame are the EU, sooner were out the better

 

[SUTSS]

EU and European Courts actually keeping the Tories somewhat in line when it comes to a full on assault on workers rights and civil liberties.

 

[Red]

Only ones to blame are the EU, sooner were out the better

Do you really believe that the Tories wouldn't have introduced this regardless of us being in the EU? Welfare is and always has been anathema to the Tories since Thatcher.