The Labour Thread

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

u got a source?

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...yle-power-sharing-deal-for-the-Falklands.html

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

are u gonna share it with us?

 

[Aber gas]

Ooh he wants dialogue with Argentina, what a bastard.

 

[Alty]

Ooh he wants dialogue with Argentina, what a bastard.

Argentina's claim is absurd and the islanders should control their own destiny. There's nothing noble in trying to reach a compromise on this issue.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

Argentina's claim is absurd and the islanders should control their own destiny. There's nothing noble in trying to reach a compromise on this issue.

true. compared to other colonial legacies this one is pretty cut and dry too, and i'm pretty quick to condemn relics of our imperial past

 

[Aber gas]

Argentina's claim is absurd and the islanders should control their own destiny. There's nothing noble in trying to reach a compromise on this issue.

He's not though is he? The Labour Party's position hasn't changed and isn't likely to. We support the right to self determination of the islanders. The article has taken some comments from an outgoing diplomat and blown them up to present jezza as a traitor ( again). I personally find the idea of having a meaningful diplomatic relationship with Argentina preferable to the empty, militaristic rhetoric which characterises our current relationship.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

worst case is he allows a referendum on this power sharing agreement, whatever anyone does has to be done by referendum. the referendum will be shot down and all remains the same. that's a probability of a possibility of a (likely) impossibility (corbyn becoming pm), so who the fuck cares

 

[SUTSS]

He's not though is he? The Labour Party's position hasn't changed and isn't likely to. We support the right to self determination of the islanders. The article has taken some comments from an outgoing diplomat and blown them up to present jezza as a traitor ( again). I personally find the idea of having a meaningful diplomatic relationship with Argentina preferable to the empty, militaristic rhetoric which characterises our current relationship.

Sure but that's an empty statement. The militaristic rhetoric largely comes from Argentina and it benefits them to keep it that way.

 

[Aber gas]

Sure but that's an empty statement. The militaristic rhetoric largely comes from Argentina and it benefits them to keep it that way.

It comes from the uk just as much, politicians seem to love invoking the spirit of Maggie with a bit of Argie bashing every so often. Perhaps leaving out the patriotic fervour when dealing with Argentina might produce a more constructive relationship.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

It comes from the uk just as much, politicians seem to love invoking the spirit of Maggie with a bit of Argie bashing every so often.

I don't think that's true at all. It may sound crude to say that 'they started it', but they really always do. There's very little to gain from Britain antagonizing Argentina when they have the bulk of the continent on their side and while we'll need co-operation in the region when the oil and gas starts to flow. It feels like a betrayal of the islanders to talk about negotiation when the incoming Argentinian president has already talked about cooling off the sovereignty talks and forging a closer relationship with Britain.

 

[SUTSS]

It comes from the uk just as much, politicians seem to love invoking the spirit of Maggie with a bit of Argie bashing every so often. Perhaps leaving out the patriotic fervour when dealing with Argentina might produce a more constructive relationship.

I really don't think that's true at all. I can't remember any significant cast of that. Response to Argentine threats sure but that's different. Until Argentina are willing to accept the will of the islanders I don't see how we can do anything different.

There seems to be this idea of parts of the left that if we're just nicer to everyone that a lot of the problems will just go away but the world doesn't work like that.

 

[Aber gas]

I really don't think that's true at all. I can't remember any significant cast of that. Response to Argentine threats sure but that's different. Until Argentina are willing to accept the will of the islanders I don't see how we can do anything different.

There seems to be this idea of parts of the left that if we're just nicer to everyone that a lot of the problems will just go away but the world doesn't work like that.

I'm not advocating being " nicer" to everyone as a way to eradicate the worlds problems. I'm not even sure I totally understand the term nicer in a political context, it's a vague and highly subjective term. I'm not sure empty posturing or the attitude of "that's not how the world works" gets us much further either.
I personally don't see the Falklands as a important issue currently, nothing has changed and it's not likely to. This whole farce seems like another attempt to discredit Corbyn with a bit of patriotic fist pumping chucked in. Obviously I'm ignorant of how the real world works though

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

I'm inclined to think that it's an avoidable controversy. I don't think he's said anything especially inflammatory but his comments on the Marr Show about seeking some "reasonable accommodation with Argentina" do seem rather ill-advised, especially given his opponents determination to paint him (quite unreasonably) as a threat to national security. Given the weakness of Argentina's claim to the Falklands and their failure to respect the wishes of the Islanders I think people are probably entitled to wonder what kind of meaningful dialogue the two nations can really have on the issue. I think his candour's refreshing but I do wonder if this is perhaps an example of an area where he'd be better off being a little bit more evasive, especially when there's probably not a great number of MPs within Labour ranks that share his view.

 

[SUTSS]

Most of his controversies are avoidable.

 

[Womble98]

It is funny, Corbyn campaigned for years saying those driven off the Chagos islands were hard done by, that they should have listened to the islanders views. But when it comes to the absolute view of the falkland islanders, they seemingly don't quite matter so much.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

again, he hasn't really done anything, has he? let's wait for something substantiated before throwing him under the bus

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

I don't think it's that unreasonable to paint him as a threat to national security, I think it sounds hyperbolic and alarmist because normally it would be, but not for him. He hasn't been shy about wanting to gimp our nuclear deterrent or power projection capabilities, and now talk of negotiating with Argentina. If he actually managed to make these changes happen I think they'd weaken us practically irrecoverably.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

i think it is unreasonable to expect corbyn to, if elected, unilaterally destroy our armed forces leaving us open to attack. rather than just a general trend of his, one established during a long career, to promote peace and general disarmament

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Even with that false dichotomy, both would still fit the criteria.

 

[Pliny Harris]

Field Marshal Michael Carver was a famous critic of our nuclear armament, saying of the Trident missile programme "What the bloody hell is it for?" Was he a threat to national security?

Meanwhile the government planning to go as far as halving our number of soldiers? Are they a threat to national security?

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Field Marshal Michael Carver was a famous critic of our nuclear armament, saying of the Trident missile programme "What the bloody hell is it for?" Was he a threat to national security?

Was he in a position to get rid of it?

Meanwhile the government planning to go as far as halving our number of soldiers? Are they a threat to national security?

Yes.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

i know it feels good to thump your chest and shout 'hoo rah' to no-one in particular, but we're in nato. we ain't about to be annihilated anytime soon mein fuhrer

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Because that's how it works, either total annihilation or nothing.

 

[Aber gas]

Good work from jezza at pmq's today. Had Dave on toast over the Google fiasco and obviously rattled him. It's quite amusing to watch Cameron try to attack Corbyn on the records of Blair and Brown when jezza has been a bigger critic of both.

 

[Womble98]

He's a danger to national security because he is a fucking idiot who continues to grab onto power despite the fact that he has no chance in hell of being elected. The longer he holds on, the more and more likely we have another conservative government. The fact that an opposition is doing so poorly when the government is doing so much shit says it all.

 

[Aber gas]

No chance of being elected you say ?http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35003152

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

He's a danger to national security because he is a fucking idiot who continues to grab onto power despite the fact that he has no chance in hell of being elected. The longer he holds on, the more and more likely we have another conservative government. The fact that an opposition is doing so poorly when the government is doing so much shit says it all.

u are confusing being a 'fucking idiot' with having principles. easy to do when u are the former and lack the latter

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

The two are hardly mutually exclusive.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

i far from agree with many of his policies but calling him an idiot is ignorant. he's done exactly what we knew he'd do and what we wanted him to do, which was to refuse to play the game of politics and stick by his personal beliefs. personal beliefs which are mostly in line with a huge segment of the country's population. people want peace and an end to austerity. people want a socialist party that at least attempts democratic socialism, and people are bored of corporate shills quipping away about austerity and playing it safe and the game of politics. corbyn and farage are kind of the anti-politicians, and calling them 'idiots' for doing precisely what we wanted them to do reflects more on those slinging the barbs than them as people and potential leaders. i will translate that into binary if u like, robot