the middle east Thread

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

saudi arabia have never funded daesh. private citizens in the saudi state might well have though. it's important to note that there was a schism, al nusra and daesh were once in the same but had a violent split, almost losing raqqa. saudi fund al-nusra, not daesh. daesh have attacked saudi positions, think they killed a general on the border with iraq

 

[SUTSS]

I'm all on board with a political solution to ISIS but no one seems to be able to present a plausible way of doing this. Has anyone actually got one?

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

i got nothing

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Back Assad, then pressure him into reform.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

haha yeah that'll work. i can't imagine more of a horrific betrayal of the people of syria than backing assad

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

He's going to win anyway, it might as well be on our terms.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

He's going to win anyway, it might as well be on our terms.

there's not a chance in hell assad will win lol

 

[Stagat]

It will be hard for Islam extremists in China to link with ISIS, but not impossible, and it certainly doesn't mean that ISIS can't have an influence on those people. Most extremists are not reasonable people. Islam extremism has been more visible in recent years than before in our country. The reason is very complicated.

By the way, their biggest conern is far from protecting their own ethnicity. From what I see and hear, most of their concerns are exact the same concerns that Han people live in the less developed part of China have. But, as soon as somebody says he's persecuted by CCP, he gains the support from the West. This is a well used tactic by those extremists in China.

Good to get your input, Liu, seeing as China has been brought up in the other thread.

To clarify, when I said their biggest concern, it was meant in the context of reasons for the minority of a Chinese minority who would want to commit a terrorist act to do so. I'm sure their biggest everyday concerns are putting food on the table etc, same as you, me, and the Han people in the less developed parts of China, as you say.

But I still think an incident borne of their own feeling of injustice is far more likely than one inspired by ISIS. I might be wrong. I'm hoping, of course, that neither happen anyway.

Out of interest mate, if something ISIS-inspired were to happen on Chinese soil, by Chinese citizens, how do you think it would even be reported to you guys? Your evening news is often like this, isn't it?

Item 1: look at all this terrorism in Paris

Item 2: look at these Chinese policemen keeping everyone safe here

Or is that just a cliche? In theory, if something did happen as mentioned, would they try to keep any mention of ISIS out of the general Chinese public domain, do you think? Play it down as a purely homegrown thing?

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

it's ethnic first, religion second amonst the xinjiang extremists

 

[liu]

Good to get your input, Liu, seeing as China has been brought up in the other thread.

To clarify, when I said their biggest concern, it was meant in the context of reasons for the minority of a Chinese minority who would want to commit a terrorist act to do so. I'm sure their biggest everyday concerns are putting food on the table etc, same as you, me, and the Han people in the less developed parts of China, as you say.

But I still think an incident borne of their own feeling of injustice is far more likely than one inspired by ISIS. I might be wrong. I'm hoping, of course, that neither happen anyway.

Out of interest mate, if something ISIS-inspired were to happen on Chinese soil, by Chinese citizens, how do you think it would even be reported to you guys? Your evening news is often like this, isn't it?

Item 1: look at all this terrorism in Paris

Item 2: look at these Chinese policemen keeping everyone safe here

Or is that just a cliche? In theory, if something did happen as mentioned, would they try to keep any mention of ISIS out of the general Chinese public domain, do you think? Play it down as a purely homegrown thing?

To answer your question, Chinese government do believe that domestic terrorism is linked with those abroad. Since some terrorist attacks in recent years, CCP's attitude towards Islamic extremism has change a bit. They seem to realize that it's becoming a worldwide problem that China can't escape. They wouldn't play down the influence of ISIS if they believe they are playing a part.
You are right about the evening news though. The "we are enjoying our life while other countries are in a mess" way of reporting the news haven't changed much.

 

[liu]

it's ethnic first, religion second amonst the xinjiang extremists

You are partly right. Because of all the muslim minorities in Xinjiang, only some of the Uyghurs are causing problems.
I've read something interesting about it. Among all minorities there, Uyghurs are those who are living better and like most people in China, have improved their economic condition during the past thirty years. But, because of something such as language problem, it's still hard for them to work in big cities in eastern China. Thus, the main award of their improving condition is more free time.
Too much free time in a life that is still not wealthy can be dangerous. More people turned to their religion to make their lives more meaningful. Those radical preachers certainly sound more attractive than those who are moderate among people want to change their boring life. In this way, Xinjiang has becoming more unsettled. More Uyghur people start to dress like Saudis and abandoned their traditional colorful clothes. Some others tried to link themselves with Turkey, even though they share nothing historically, just that the word Turkey happened to relate to those lived in middle Asia a long time ago (who are neither today's Turkey people nor Uyghurs.)

 

[DarkSithLord]

BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking 24m24 minutes ago
Warplane apparently shot down by Turkish jets in Syria was Russian, officials in Moscow say http://bbc.in/1Npk3n4

 

[Stagat]

Well that's not good news. Although Russia can't say they haven't been warned by Turkey of this very thing happening, can they?

Edit:

"Syrian activists have been quoted as saying that one of the pilots of the Russian Su-24 has been captured. He is said to be being held in the mountainous Utayrah area in Turkmen Mount, Qatar-based Al-Jazeera Arabic TV reports."

 

[mowgli]

BBC News are reporting that lone of the pilots has been killed,this will get get Putin even more pumped up for war.

 

[ArmchairDiehard]

Agreed - Putin will be spitting blood.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

Shot down by Turkey it's reported.
Well that makes things complicated. As if they weren't enough already.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

we all gonna die

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

y'all see the flight data?

the su24 can cruise at supersonic so we talking a 10 second incursion or so. guess turkey has a right to defend their borders, but possibly killing a dude or two for 10 seconds doesn't seem worth it

fuck russia, fuck turkey, fuck daesh, fuck assad and fuck al qaeda. they all suck

 

[Mustard]

If the Russian jet had been warned as Turkey say then they are definitely at fault, even if it is a small infringement on Turkish air space. Russia has been pulling this shit for years, it's not surprising something has finally come of it. Even in the past week there's been reports of Russian sub activity off Britain, and not long ago a similar incident happened near Stockholm.

Nothing will come of it though. This is a country that literally shot down a passenger airline and invaded Ukraine. I expect a lot of political tutting.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

The Russians are always testing NATO responses. You have to draw a line somewhere. The border seems apt.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

"stab in the back by the accomplices of terrorists", Vladimir Putin says

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

well the second part of that statement is indisputable really

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

fsa shot down a ruskie heli too apparently. not a good day for the air force

 

[mnb089mnb]

well the second part of that statement is indisputable really

"Vladimir Putin says"?

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

alright, smartass

 

[liu]

ISIS sure will be happy to see this. If things were like what Turkey said, they certainly had the right to do it. But They should have handled it better. After all Russians were not bombing them.

 

[Blitzballer]

Ww3 beckons

 

[spireite]

Oh fucking hell Turkey, what have you done

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

putin will be far more concerned with the crimean situ than this plane imo. this is more of an opportunity than a challenge

 

[spireite]

Shooting down parachuting pilots is a war-crime iirc, as that's apparently what happened. Very naughty