the middle east Thread

[pontoonlew]

The one in France appears to be an angry worker with some link to IS. the guy beheaded was one of the guys boss.

 

[Mustard]

Without wanting to be trite, the attack in France can only be described as a pitiful failure. Essentially they murdered one man and then tried to blow up a gas works, didn't succeed and were killed and arrested. The Tunisia events are chilling, incredibly cynical attack but one to be expected more. Certainly would advise against going to this area of the world as it stands. I think military action is inevitable against IS at some point, likewise I think punitive measures across Europe will be increased.

It's a massive shame, Tunisia is looking like one the the success stories of the Arab spring with a democratic, stable government but the two terrorist attacks on the tourism industry will rock their economy for years. So long as their economy is financed by western money these attacks will continue.

 

[spireite]

It's a massive shame, Tunisia is looking like one the the success stories of the Arab spring with a democratic, stable government but the two terrorist attacks on the tourism industry will rock their economy for years. So long as their economy is financed by western money these attacks will continue.

You tend to think that if ISIS are going to destabilize and start to have a presence in Tunisia, they need to stop their tourism. I think tourism is worth like 10% of Tunisia's GDP. Mr Young Tunisian man who has a steady job in the tourism industry and is able to support himself is not as good a target for ISIS as Mr Young Tunisian man who is wholly disillusioned, destitute and can't see a future for himself. It's cynical and a 'long game' but not too hard to imagine.

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

Sooner or later Iran has to be brought into the fold, the relations have been thawing gradually but still some way to go. Iran is as much a target of Sunni violence as any 'western' nation. The despicable Saudi regime continues to hold the balance of power and the closest relations with the West, despite spawning most of the finance for the likes of IS, they're happy to see the slaughters continue, especially of the Shia and rid the Middle East of Iranian influence completely. Iran is preferable to Saudi Arabia in every way.

 

[Freakyteeth]

Iran are already in the fold, the Quds Revolutionary Guard are in the south east of Iraq fucking ISIS' shit up

The key player is going to be anti Kurd pro sunni secretly pro ISIS Turkey.

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

Not really, it's a tacit alliance but I mean more formally. The West's ridiculous stance, after topping a democracy there, when they overthrew their puppet regime has allowed a powerful nation to pass us by. Instead they prefer the Saudis and Israelis.

 

[Womble98]

If we want to defeat IS we need to, as TheArtfulDodger said, bring Iran into the fold.

Iran is vehemently opposed to the form of Islam that IS preach. In contrast, Saudi Arabia is responsible for its spread and rise. It is quite frankly bizarre that we refuse to work with Iran. Whilst it is by no means morally correct, it is on a nother level to the Saudis, and is becoming slowly more and more progressive, evidenced by the current leader. By contrast SA seems to be going the other way.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

We'd be better off trying to negotiate with ISIS. It's very doubtful that an organization run by former Ba'athists really cares about all this Islamist crap. Split Iraq into Sunni, Shia and Kurdish states and be done with it.

 

[Womble98]

We'd be better off trying to negotiate with ISIS. It's very doubtful that an organization run by former Ba'athists really cares about all this Islamist crap. Split Iraq into Sunni, Shia and Kurdish states and be done with it.

Um...what? That is just such utter bollocks.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Um...what? That is just such utter bollocks.

Which bit? I'm sure plenty of the footsoliders care about it, and it's certainly what they use as a selling point, but the leadership? Debatable. It's chock full of ex-Iraqi military from when the US disbanded their army. They're flashing their looted swag when they're not ranting about Western decadence.

 

[Womble98]

Which bit? I'm sure plenty of the footsoliders care about it, and it's certainly what they use as a selling point, but the leadership? Debatable. It's chock full of ex-Iraqi military from when the US disbanded their army. They're flashing their looted swag when they're not ranting about Western decadence.

Sure, you can argue that they are hypocritical but to dismiss their motives as not being this "islamist crap" is so naive. Why else would they wage war on so many fronts? They clearly aren't setting their families or themselves up for a long life of prosperity. If it was instead some kind of insurgency focused mainly on power, ignoring the islamist stuff, they would not have set everyone against them.

 

[pontoonlew]

Victims names are being released slowly, one of them being a young kid who a tribute for appeared on my Twitter. I clicked on his Twitter to see a fucking BBC journalist has just started following him.

No words for the media scum.

 

[Jockney]

Victims names are being released slowly, one of them being a young kid who a tribute for appeared on my Twitter. I clicked on his Twitter to see a fucking BBC journalist has just started following him.

No words for the media scum.

How does that make them scum?

 

[pontoonlew]

How does that make them scum?

Why on earth would you start following a dead teenager on Twitter in the name of a story?

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

Iran is boss.

 

[Dave-Vale]

The Middle East is such a cluster fuck.

There's a snippet from a newspaper article that explains the situation in a short paragraph about the relationships between the countries there and the rest of the world... Can anybody direct me to it? or try to explain it?

 

[Jockney]

Why on earth would you start following a dead teenager on Twitter in the name of a story?

I'm failing to even see the moral implications never mind the ethical ones. The journo will be following the fella presumably so he can glean screenshots of tributes to the kid. If anything they're doing his family a service.

 

[pontoonlew]

I'm failing to even see the moral implications never mind the ethical ones. The journo will be following the fella presumably so he can glean screenshots of tributes to the kid. If anything they're doing his family a service.

He can quite easily do that without following the guy. Poor taste imo.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

He can quite easily do that without following the guy. Poor taste imo.

I don't think anyone has a clue what you mean. What's wrong with following him?

 

[mnb089mnb]

Victims names are being released slowly, one of them being a young kid who a tribute for appeared on my Twitter. I clicked on his Twitter to see a fucking BBC journalist has just started following him.

No words for the media scum.

Clicking on his twitter - fine.
Following him - scum.

Social media etiquette is fucking hard.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

iran ain't the answer. sunni arabs in iraq were marginalised and oppressed by a puppetised iraqi shia government. it's what led many into following isis. since iran took over shia death squads have been perpetrating pretty horrendous human rights abuses against sunni iraqis. fighting crimes against humanity with crimes against humanity don't sound too smart

and lol at the assertion we can negotiate with isis

 

[Womble98]

iran ain't the answer. sunni arabs in iraq were marginalised and oppressed by a puppetised iraqi shia government. it's what led many into following isis. since iran took over shia death squads have been perpetrating pretty horrendous human rights abuses against sunni iraqis. fighting crimes against humanity with crimes against humanity don't sound too smart

and lol at the assertion we can negotiate with isis

Have you got any source for these Shia death squads? It is the first I have heard of them.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

and lol at the assertion we can negotiate with isis

Why not? They're just people. I'm sure we negotiate with all kinds of groups behind the scenes. Easy to ride around with AKs praising your sky god until you actually have to keeps the lights on and the water running.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

Have you got any source for these Shia death squads? It is the first I have heard of them.

http://www.hrw.org/news/2015/02/02/iraq-isis-militias-feed-cycle-abuses

isis won't negotiate with us as a matter of ideology, and we shouldn't either as a matter of ideology. isis need to be exterminated

the iraqi forces arrayed against isis are

a) human rights abusers
b) apathetic
c) ethnic seperatists

the iraqi army ain't as incompetent as made out. they just really ain't too bothered about saving sunni areas. if isis were to push into the shia south then we'd see them holding their ground but they don't give a shit about sunni iraq. doesn't help that most of the good generals who cut their teeth under saddam against iran were purged by the u.s. any guesses where the experienced, hardened, SUNNI commanders went once the u.s. got rid?

btw electricity and water are free in the islamic state so they have that going for them at least ahaha

 

[johnnytodd]

on a side note i watched and heard some fella on SKY news yesterday say he got an email from his son to avoid the beach ( in Tunisia ) just before that man shot everyone...........i've not seen anyone pick up on this in the news since? how did his son know what was going to happen? whats more he was a British muslim i think.

sad sad world we live in anyway

 

[mnb089mnb]

on a side note i watched and heard some fella on SKY news yesterday say he got an email from his son to avoid the beach ( in Tunisia ) just before that man shot everyone...........i've not seen anyone pick up on this in the news since? how did his son know what was going to happen? whats more he was a British muslim i think.

I searched for this story online. Found a link to David Icke's website. Also, an e-mail seems an odd form of communication to warn someone. A phone-call (or at the very least, a text) would seem more appropriate.

 

[Red]

on a side note i watched and heard some fella on SKY news yesterday say he got an email from his son to avoid the beach ( in Tunisia ) just before that man shot everyone...........i've not seen anyone pick up on this in the news since? how did his son know what was going to happen? whats more he was a British muslim i think.

sad sad world we live in anyway

ISIS don't seem to be remotely bothered about slaying Muslims, so I don't understand the relevance of that. I also don't think they're the type of people who would ever be willing to negotiate.

 

[nousername]

It's probably just the same nutters from 10 years ago, except now they've moved franchise from Al-Qaeda to Islamic State...

 

[johnnytodd]

I searched for this story online. Found a link to David Icke's website. Also, an e-mail seems an odd form of communication to warn someone. A phone-call (or at the very least, a text) would seem more appropriate.

it was also reported on RADIO MERSEYSIDE yesterday so i wasn't imagining it

 

[johnnytodd]

ISIS don't seem to be remotely bothered about slaying Muslims, so I don't understand the relevance of that. I also don't think they're the type of people who would ever be willing to negotiate.

hence the word side note