the middle east Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dr Mantis Toboggan
  • Start date Start date

mnb089mnb

Ian
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
1,891
Reaction score
1,947
Points
113
Location
Bet365
Supports
Coral.co.uk & Ladbrokes.com
Twitter
@taylorswift13
Are we saying that this attack was orchestrated and British Muslims knew it was going to happen?

And Radio Merseyside and Sky are reporting it.

But it hasn't made it online yet?
 

silkyman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Messages
4,099
Reaction score
1,068
Points
113
Supports
Macclesfield Town/Manchester City. It's complicated.
Cameron has promised a 'full spectrum' response.

I don't think a marathon Manic Miner session will cut the mustard here, Dave..
 

johnnytodd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2015
Messages
5,273
Reaction score
1,042
Points
113
Location
Cheshire
Supports
Everton
Are we saying that this attack was orchestrated and British Muslims knew it was going to happen?

And Radio Merseyside and Sky are reporting it.

But it hasn't made it online yet?
yes its online, its on this phone in between 12.30 - 1.30 i'm told, basically some man rings in to ask why nothing has been reported about what i heard on the news.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02trfcv
 

johnnytodd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2015
Messages
5,273
Reaction score
1,042
Points
113
Location
Cheshire
Supports
Everton
Are we saying that this attack was orchestrated and British Muslims knew it was going to happen?

And Radio Merseyside and Sky are reporting it.

But it hasn't made it online yet?
that link works its 1h24 mins into the show
 

Dave-Vale

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
1,612
Reaction score
497
Points
83
Supports
Port Vale
It's probably just the same nutters from 10 years ago, except now they've moved franchise from Al-Qaeda to Islamic State...

From what I've read even ISIS are too extreme for Al-Qaeda and they're no longer get backed by them.
 

BigDaveCUFC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
3,680
Reaction score
699
Points
113
Supports
Curzon Ashton....and Carlisle
I've said before and i'll say again...time to get the troops right into the country and finish it off.

I fully blame the 'pull the troops out' brigade for the full ISIS mess, people blame going into Iraq, but for me it was still the right thing to do, the problem is we left that country far far far too early.
 

Modernist

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
622
Reaction score
268
Points
63
Supports
Freedom
I've said before and i'll say again...time to get the troops right into the country and finish it off.

I fully blame the 'pull the troops out' brigade for the full ISIS mess, people blame going into Iraq, but for me it was still the right thing to do, the problem is we left that country far far far too early.
That is just what ISIS want.
 

Womble98

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
880
Reaction score
265
Points
63
Supports
AFC Wimbledon and Sporting Leyland
Think logically about this. The deaths of these people are tragic, and we should mourn them and show full respect to them. But the actual threat that IS poses to this country is so minimal. Over a year since they came to prominence really, with promises that our citizens would be murdered in the street. Lee Rigby is the sole incident on British soil. They have failed in every other attempt, or just haven't had attempts.

Our involvement should be limited to assiting the Kurds and the Iranians with air strikes, intel, and arms.


I have also heard the same story that Johnny said about a man being warned to stay away.
 
  • Like
Reactions: .V.

AFCB_Mark

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
3,514
Reaction score
1,063
Points
113
Supports
A single unitary authority for urban Dorset
I've said before and i'll say again...time to get the troops right into the country and finish it off.

I fully blame the 'pull the troops out' brigade for the full ISIS mess, people blame going into Iraq, but for me it was still the right thing to do, the problem is we left that country far far far too early.

That would be an utterly horrendous thing to do, it'd pull the whole thing into the Islam v 'The West' thing that ISIS want to fuel, in order to further their claims of legitimacy in the Islamic world, by shouting 'look we told you so, they're invading again and they're invading our state'.

ISIS can only be stopped by Islam itself. Although it's deeper than that, as not even Shia Islam can intervene too far because that also plays to the Shia v Sunni divide that ISIS want to fuel. Ultimately ISIS can only be stopped by Sunnis themselves.
 

johnnytodd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2015
Messages
5,273
Reaction score
1,042
Points
113
Location
Cheshire
Supports
Everton
approximately 1000 illegal immigrants have entered the UK since the Tunisia massacre alone ( government estimates)

it's just a matter of time until there is a massacre in the UK
 

Modernist

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
622
Reaction score
268
Points
63
Supports
Freedom
approximately 1000 illegal immigrants have entered the UK since the Tunisia massacre alone ( government estimates)

it's just a matter of time until there is a massacre in the UK
You can say that about any country in the world, and it doesnt take illegal immigrants either, infact its less likely to be illegal immigrants and more likely to be home grown, but if you want to put the worlds ills on immigrants then carry on with your misguided view.
 

BigDaveCUFC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
3,680
Reaction score
699
Points
113
Supports
Curzon Ashton....and Carlisle
I have to disagree with you guys who say going in is exactly what ISIS want us to do.............it won't at all generate a 'them and us'

clearly you lot do not realize the even larger bigger threat which comes from allowing them time to develop.

In the places they currently own the schools will be developing hundreds maybe thousands of new radicals all of whom will be out to cause much larger problems in 5-6 years time, it'll be then people finally act.

going in would at least stop them having a focus and allowing the media to give them massed publicity all the time, they'd be wiped out as an effective force within a week.
 

johnnytodd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2015
Messages
5,273
Reaction score
1,042
Points
113
Location
Cheshire
Supports
Everton
You can say that about any country in the world, and it doesnt take illegal immigrants either, infact its less likely to be illegal immigrants and more likely to be home grown, but if you want to put the worlds ills on immigrants then carry on with your misguided view.
Whats misguided? people are entering the country from these collapsed states EVERY minute and your telling me ISIS has not had the idea to send Jihadists to the home of people they hate and want to kill, they will have plenty of welcoming people too......guaranteed massacre on the cards.

It wont be the politicians who get slaughtered it will be the men women and children who have done fuck all.
 

Red

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
2,536
Reaction score
1,110
Points
113
Location
Chesterfield
Supports
Opposing the pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre!!!!
I have to disagree with you guys who say going in is exactly what ISIS want us to do.............it won't at all generate a 'them and us'

clearly you lot do not realize the even larger bigger threat which comes from allowing them time to develop.

In the places they currently own the schools will be developing hundreds maybe thousands of new radicals all of whom will be out to cause much larger problems in 5-6 years time, it'll be then people finally act.

going in would at least stop them having a focus and allowing the media to give them massed publicity all the time, they'd be wiped out as an effective force within a week.
I'm not sure why you supported the war in Iraq that was proven to be predicated on a lie. The problem is Dave is that the British public don't want another war. Out of the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and a potential war with ISIS I'd say the latter would have been most justifiable, but getting involved in the other two has rendered the chance of war with ISIS much, much slimmer.
 

Ebeneezer Goode

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
3,657
Reaction score
1,541
Points
113
Supports
England
You can't eradicate a disease by bombing the symptoms. Iraq is a country but not a nation. It's artificial, it doesn't make sense, and we shouldn't be trying to hold it together.
 
A

Alty

Guest
You can't eradicate a disease by bombing the symptoms. Iraq is a country but not a nation. It's artificial, it doesn't make sense, and we shouldn't be trying to hold it together.
There's a misguided view that nationlism is inherently bad which helps to support the ill-conceived notion that stability and the status quo go hand in hand. If Kurdistan (or a version thereof), a Shia state and a Sunni one makes more sense than a country called Iraq, then that's probably better for everyone's happiness and for regional stability long-term.
 

SUTSS

Survivor Champion 2015
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
3,067
Reaction score
1,027
Points
113
Supports
Norwich City
You can't eradicate a disease by bombing the symptoms. Iraq is a country but not a nation. It's artificial, it doesn't make sense, and we shouldn't be trying to hold it together.

That doesn't necessarily lead to instability though surely? There are plenty of countries in the world that are made up of several nations.

Although I agree with the overall point you're making. The Middle East and Africa are full of countries whose borders have been drawn by foreign politicians with no regard to history and culture and this is a huge factor in the instability.
 

Gladders

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
3,826
Reaction score
1,438
Points
113
Location
Marlow
Supports
Grimsby Town
Twitter
@Gladders1980
Only a matter of time before troops end up getting sent in, most likely not long after the US elections. Air strikes aren't enough especially as ISIS are just moving into cities and using civilians as shields.
 

Dave-Vale

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
1,612
Reaction score
497
Points
83
Supports
Port Vale
If Jeb Bush gets in he can be the 3rd Bush family member to wage war on the Middle East.

I very much doubt that ISIS would be thriving as they are if we had never invaded Iraq/Afghanistan.

I'm not an advocate of war, simply because there are going to be civilian casualties in the thousands. That said, ISIS are more of a reason to send troops in and start air strikes than any reason given for the previous invasion of Iraq.

What is it about the people from that part of the world and their inability to resolve shit without resorting to war and violence?
 

Dave-Vale

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
1,612
Reaction score
497
Points
83
Supports
Port Vale
Resolving shit with war and violence is what you're advocating though?

I KNEW somebody would say that.

I simply stated that they're giving the west more of a reason to send troops in than Saddam Hussein ever did.

I never said, or even implied that was what I wanted to happen.

That is what will eventually happen though.
 

BigDaveCUFC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
3,680
Reaction score
699
Points
113
Supports
Curzon Ashton....and Carlisle
Sitting back isn't always the answer......sometimes you have to act.

I still 100% back the Iraq war as it was the right thing to do................he was a horrendous person and removing him wasn't a bad thing anyway (but yes the US reasons in the end were bad)

the problem is people seem to think once you remove the dictator countries should magically transform into some whimsical wonderland. it could take year and years.

we ditched Iraq far too early, if we'd stayed we'd not have this now.
 

SUTSS

Survivor Champion 2015
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
3,067
Reaction score
1,027
Points
113
Supports
Norwich City
I agree with Dave to an extent. I think our big failure in Iraq was having no plan about what happens next. The sectarian divides in the country were well established so it shouldn't have come as a surprise to any of the invading countries that this sort of thing could happen. Soldiers aren't nation builders and it was stupid to think that we could stabilise a country with the military alone.

I think we're in a lose/lose situation with ISIS. We go in with military force and risk further entrenching the 'West v Islam' narrative that is an effective recruiting tool. We don't go in with military force and we risk ISIS become stronger and genuinely threatening Europe. I think if there is going to be any military action then it has to be with Islamic countries at our side.

Also, if we genuinely want to defeat them we need to be investing in renewable and nuclear energy like no tomorrow so that we can end our relationship with the Saudis.
 

BigDaveCUFC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
3,680
Reaction score
699
Points
113
Supports
Curzon Ashton....and Carlisle
Well the good thing is ISIS are digging their own grave by deciding to attack every other terrorist force at the same time and thus removing the 'them vs us' argument.

already attacking Al Qaeda and now attacking Hamas.....it at least means that frankly they won't get support if others attacked.

the big thing is it needs supported from most areas.....US-Russia-China-Middle East.

I think ISIS have done enough for it to be supported by all 4 areas.
 

Stagat

#stagat
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
2,319
Reaction score
2,022
Points
113
Supports
Mansfield
the big thing is it needs supported from most areas.....US-Russia-China-Middle East.

I think ISIS have done enough for it to be supported by all 4 areas.

Admittedly based on nowt but what I reckon, but if you're on about sending in ground troops... then I can't see China getting involved. Not unless IS directly brings them into it, and I don't reckon IS would be daft enough to do that.

China have nothing to lose by not getting involved in the way that countries closer to home have because nobody really expects them to. They can (and I reckon will) happily sit thousands of miles away safe in the opinion it's nowt really to do with them.
 

.V.

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
1,738
Reaction score
552
Points
113
Supports
Bristol City
If we do decide to go in and remove ISIS, I do hope our post war planning is significantly better than it was 12 years ago.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Red

Red

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
2,536
Reaction score
1,110
Points
113
Location
Chesterfield
Supports
Opposing the pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre!!!!
Right, this might sound daft but what do ISIS and isil stand for? I get that the is part obviously stands for Islamic state. I thought the is and il bits stood for in Syria and in Libya respectively, but today I heard Cameron say 'isil in Syria '
 

mnb089mnb

Ian
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
1,891
Reaction score
1,947
Points
113
Location
Bet365
Supports
Coral.co.uk & Ladbrokes.com
Twitter
@taylorswift13
I KNEW somebody would say that.

I simply stated that they're giving the west more of a reason to send troops in than Saddam Hussein ever did.

I never said, or even implied that was what I wanted to happen.

That is what will eventually happen though.

"What is it about the people from that part of the world and their inability to resolve shit without resorting to war and violence?"

But this is what the US and UK do in this part of the world, isn't it?
 

SUTSS

Survivor Champion 2015
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
3,067
Reaction score
1,027
Points
113
Supports
Norwich City
The L is for Levant surely?
 

Forum statistics

Threads
16,573
Messages
1,227,149
Members
8,512
Latest member
you dont know

Latest posts

SITE SPONSORS

W88 W88 trang chu KUBET Thailand
Fun88 12Bet Get top UK casino bonuses for British players in casinos not on GamStop
The best ₤1 minimum deposit casinos UK not on GamStop Find the best new no deposit casino get bonus and play legendary slots Best UK online casinos list 2022
No-Verification.Casino Casinos that accept PayPal Top online casinos
sure.bet miglioriadm.net: siti scommesse non aams
Need help with your academic papers? Customwritings offers high-quality professionals to write essays that deserve an A!
Top