the Migrant Crisis

[Aber gas]

It's slang or shorthand I spose. What a weird thing to post.

 

[mnb089mnb]

You guys do know fascist's doesn't have an h in it?

Have you been out on the piss again?

 

[Womble98]

Have you been out on the piss again?

I'm at uni, what do you expect?

 

[Benito]

A coach-load of fascists brutally attacked a bus of terrified Russian schoolkids in Maidstone because they thought they were anti-fascists.

You can't think of Dover as a demonstration in the conventional sense (even by far-right standards) - it was an attempt by the National Front to demonstrate their resurgance - a show of power.

There have been previous demonstrations in Dover that haven't been effectively opposed - and yesterday was trying to illustrate to the soft-fash that the far-right was once again a force to be reckoned with - and could once again control the streets of a town.

If it hadn't been militantly opposed, the fash would have run around smashing up kebab shops and curry houses, beating up anyone they could get close to. This still happened to an extent in Dover yesterday - the fascist turnout was so large that gangs of roaming fash were attacking anyone they could well away from the main demo. Had we not lost about a third of the total militant turnout in Maidstone, maybe the we could have countered that more effectively.

I thought your lot were all busy attacking french citizens and helping the illegal entry of the hoardes of migrants and refugees from Calais into Britain.

 

[Aber gas]

I thought your lot were all busy attacking french citzens and helping the illegal entry of the hoardes of migrants and refugees from Calais into Britain.

Yeah but we have to have some downtime..

 

[Benito]

The biggest racist at Dover was Dianne Abbott anyway.

 

[Womble98]

I don't understand the philosophy of pro-refugee protestors. Do people not realise this isn't a one of crisis caused by the Syrian civil war? There are migrants coming from states across Asia, across Africa. This is crisis doesn't end once Syrja is stable. Once the borders are opened more and more will keep coming. Our only option is to put our efforts into improving living conditions in these countries.

 

[Aber gas]

The biggest racist at Dover was Dianne Abbott anyway.

Not sure about that.. We will have to have a weigh off

 

[liu]

I don't understand the philosophy of pro-refugee protestors. Do people not realise this isn't a one of crisis caused by the Syrian civil war? There are migrants coming from states across Asia, across Africa. This is crisis doesn't end once Syrja is stable. Once the borders are opened more and more will keep coming. Our only option is to put our efforts into improving living conditions in these countries.

The world cannot afford to have 7 billion people living on UK's life standard.
So, your only option may be to let everybody in until the point when UK is no longer attractive to those flee from wars.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

I don't understand the philosophy of pro-refugee protestors. Do people not realise this isn't a one of crisis caused by the Syrian civil war? There are migrants coming from states across Asia, across Africa. This is crisis doesn't end once Syrja is stable. Once the borders are opened more and more will keep coming. Our only option is to put our efforts into improving living conditions in these countries.

I think pro-refugee protesters are motivated by the UK government's indifference to the thousands of migrants camped in appalling conditions in Dunkirk and Calais, the Greek islands, and refugee camps in Turkey and Jordan.

The issue can be as distilled as simply as that - people are dying due to a humanitarian catastrophe that our government could, but chooses not to, end.

On a macro level, I don't think borders are sustainable or desirable and it's becoming increasingly - they are a sticking plaster to avoid wider economic injustice from affecting British people/Europeans and it's clear that we're rapidly approaching a tipping point where we can't pretend that the economic injustice doesn't exist or won't affect us.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

The world cannot afford to have 7 billion people living on UK's life standard.
So, your only option may be to let everybody in until the point when UK is no longer attractive to those flee from wars.

see, i used to think that, but there have been amazing progresses around the world. places like brazil and china, although incredibly unequal societies, have seen startling improvements. mainly in the cities i'll concede, but although the global disparity between the very rich and the very poor has increased, i'd argue more people have it okish now than at any time in history. or at least since global capitalism became a thing. i mean look at the millenium development goals, more progress there than regression

 

[Womble98]

The migrant in the camp in Calais were offered accommodation in a refugee camp but refused it because they would have to claim asylum in France. If they were truly desperate why don't they accept asylum there? Most likely because they have no valid claim to it.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

or maybe they don't speak french

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

I think it's more likely that they just see Britain as a softer touch. Can't blame them for looking for an easier life, but we shouldn't confuse them with "refugees fleeing for their lives" any more either. If you can flee as far West as France and still turn down asylum then I think it's fair to say that you're now an economic migrant.

 

[Benito]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ners-stood-woman-harassing-Munich-subway.html

Another day another story of how wonderful this multicultural utopia is. Is there any wonder the far right is growing in Germany.

 

[liu]

see, i used to think that, but there have been amazing progresses around the world. places like brazil and china, although incredibly unequal societies, have seen startling improvements. mainly in the cities i'll concede, but although the global disparity between the very rich and the very poor has increased, i'd argue more people have it okish now than at any time in history. or at least since global capitalism became a thing. i mean look at the millenium development goals, more progress there than regression

I can see your point. And I can confirm that there has been a huge improvement in China. But that doesn't change that there are still many Chinese abandon their life in China and try to reach Europe or the US illegally then claim asylum.
The Chinese who do that are never the poorest in China. They are mainly poorer people from richer provinces who at least have tens of thousand CNY on their hand. If they work hard in China, they can at least be okish like other people who works. They choose to leave for developed countries mainly because unskilled jobs are better paid there and the welfare there is also better.
So, if UK open the border and offer better welfare than most countries in the world, this situation will continue.

 

[DarkSithLord]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35549478

Good move?

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

jesus, turkey home to 2.5 million now. that's just a bit less than the population of wales

 

[Womble98]

Been doing a little bit of reading about UAF. Azad Ali vice chair, an islamic extremist who praises the work of jihadist and nutter Anwar al Alwaki. Supports preachers who call for gays to be stoned, and sees Jews as descended from pigs. They marched alongside extremists calling for Sharia Law in Britain.

Aber gas , and Ian_Wrexham , how the fuck can you support them?

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

Been doing a little bit of reading about UAF. Azad Ali vice chair, an islamic extremist who praises the work of jihadist and nutter Anwar al Alwaki. Supports preachers who call for gays to be stoned, and sees Jews as descended from pigs. They marched alongside extremists calling for Sharia Law in Britain.

Aber gas , and Ian_Wrexham , how the fuck can you support them?

I don't support UAF and don't organise with them.

It's important to understand what UAF is and what their role is these days in antifascism.

UAF is an SWP front organisation. Prior to 2013, they were the main organiser of non-militant anti-fascist blocs - usually through their alliances with trade unions. During that period, there was a lot of criticism of their principles and tactics - specifically, their focus on prioritising large, UAF branded rallies featuring "community leaders" over physical resistance and their desire to create United Fronts that were actually alienating to a lot of the antifascist left (alliances with conservative Muslim groups, for example, or with self-styled self-hating Jew and racist Jazz Saxophonist Gilad Atzmon). Some of these groups/individuals have more in common with fascists than they should with the left.

Their methods - rigid as they were - often strayed from crap into wildly counterproductive. They countered an "anti-grooming" EDL demo in Rotherham by sharing platforms with council leaders who'd presided over an institution that had failed to act to safeguard vulnerable kids.

Since the internal crisis of the SWP in 2013 (read: the SWP's institutional support for a rapist within the party), UAF has been largely marginalised. Their action at Dover was roughly limited to bussing in a tiny number of SWP types, the obligatory handing out of hundreds of UAF-branded placards, and then publishing a write-up that took full credit for everything that happened. Primarily, it exists to launder the reputation of the SWP.

The mobilisation in Dover was a joint effort between the Kent Anti-Racism Network (KARN), who organised locally, and the Anti-Fascist Network (AFN) who did a national organisation. AFN is a national network of (mostly) non-hierarchical, autonomous antifascist groups. None of whom have much to do with UAF.

 

[Aber gas]

Been doing a little bit of reading about UAF. Azad Ali vice chair, an islamic extremist who praises the work of jihadist and nutter Anwar al Alwaki. Supports preachers who call for gays to be stoned, and sees Jews as descended from pigs. They marched alongside extremists calling for Sharia Law in Britain.

Aber gas , and Ian_Wrexham , how the fuck can you support them?

Fuck all to do with me mush and what Ian said.

 

[Womble98]

Fair enough, I hadn't realise there was a split in the anti-fascist groups, had thought UAF was representative of them all. Clearly not.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

redtops play up the reputation of the uaf, makes it easier to demonise the opposition if it's one raving group of loonies

 

[Aber gas]

I don't support UAF and don't organise with them.

It's important to understand what UAF is and what their role is these days in antifascism.

UAF is an SWP front organisation. Prior to 2013, they were the main organiser of non-militant anti-fascist blocs - usually through their alliances with trade unions. During that period, there was a lot of criticism of their principles and tactics - specifically, their focus on prioritising large, UAF branded rallies featuring "community leaders" over physical resistance and their desire to create United Fronts that were actually alienating to a lot of the antifascist left (alliances with conservative Muslim groups, for example, or with self-styled self-hating Jew and racist Jazz Saxophonist Gilad Atzmon). Some of these groups/individuals have more in common with fascists than they should with the left.

Their methods - rigid as they were - often strayed from crap into wildly counterproductive. They countered an "anti-grooming" EDL demo in Rotherham by sharing platforms with council leaders who'd presided over an institution that had failed to act to safeguard vulnerable kids.

Since the internal crisis of the SWP in 2013 (read: the SWP's institutional support for a rapist within the party), UAF has been largely marginalised. Their action at Dover was roughly limited to bussing in a tiny number of SWP types, the obligatory handing out of hundreds of UAF-branded placards, and then publishing a write-up that took full credit for everything that happened. Primarily, it exists to launder the reputation of the SWP.

The mobilisation in Dover was a joint effort between the Kent Anti-Racism Network (KARN), who organised locally, and the Anti-Fascist Network (AFN) who did a national organisation. AFN is a national network of (mostly) non-hierarchical, autonomous antifascist groups. None of whom have much to do with UAF.

They are also massive hypocrites, I was at a demo in Bristol some years ago which involved UAF. They were doing their normal thing of continuously castigating every other group for violence ( direct action) and generally making it known that they were running the show. That was until some of their main speakers were attacked by combat 18/ infidels. Suddenly we weren't so bad
I also find their members hero worship of characters like Galloway nauseating.

 

[Techno Natch]

Yeah UAF are a bunch of clowns. I am glad they are slowly fading.

 

[spireite]

Open door policy looking better and better every day Germany...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35667858

 

[silkyman]

Should have bombed them on the boats, eh?

 

[spireite]

Should have bombed them on the boats, eh?

wow orate adolf!

 

[Alty]

Should have bombed them on the boats, eh?

Wouldnt go quite that far. Just making clear that not everyone who could make their way to Germany would be granted asylum and allowed to settle would have been sufficient.

Over 100,000 unaccounted for...Christ.

 

[spireite]

If you're going to accept a huge amount of asylum seekers, at least process them properly and keep a track of them. It helps nobody to 'lose' 130,000 people. It doesn't help Germany and it certainly doesn't help the migrants. Absolutely bonkers. That's all I was saying 'silkyman', before you came steaming in with your bombing talk!