the Migrant Crisis

[silkyman]

I don't think an ID card has anywhere near the same connotations. I suspect most people have some id on them most of the time. I've got a drivers licence in my pocket along with other cards for getting access to my money etc. I don't have to wear something that has to be actively hidden if you don't want some knuckledragger abusing you in the street.

That's also the difference between this situation and something like a festival (or the one I had given to me when I went to Jodrell Bank at the weekend).

There were similar arguments during the 'rise' of UKIP and there's the same thing about some of Trump's rhetoric. Some of the arguments, and some of the techniques were/are similar to those used in the early days of National Socialism. But you can't mention it. Because telling someone that some of the messages that Nigel Farage was shouting before the election were a little bit similar to some of the stuff Hitler said in the 30s means that you are accusing every UKIP supporter of wanting to implement the 'Final Solution'

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

immigrants have id cards already don't they? short-termers do at least, all my students who are here 6 months to a year have a nice, shiny card saying so

 

[Aber gas]

They weren't given wristbands to show everyone they were asylum seekers, it was to show the people caring for them that they were eligible for that care. No different to going to a festival and getting s wristband. There is an obsession with noting anything which seems remotely like what the Nazis did.

You think it's the same as getting a wristband from a festival ? Wow

 

[Aber gas]

A interesting and positive article from someone I wouldn't normally agree with and I certainly don't agree with it all of what he says but it's good to know not everyone in government has lost their compassion.http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...efugees-camps-it-needs-do-more-ones-who-reach

 

[Alty]

You think it's the same as getting a wristband from a festival ? Wow

It is. It confirms the person is entitled to something. I'm happy to accept that cards may have been a better option. Presumably wrist bands are cheaper which is why they were chosen. But what do you think is going on here? Was the state hoping people would physically attacks these asylum seekers if they were highly visible? If so, why?

 

[Aber gas]

It is. It confirms the person is entitled to something. I'm happy to accept that cards may have been a better option. Presumably wrist bands are cheaper which is why they were chosen. But what do you think is going on here? Was the state hoping people would physically attacks these asylum seekers if they were highly visible? If so, why?

I don't think any thought went into it at all. Same as the red door fiasco. Even I don't think the state deliberately set out to get people attacked but through lack of thought that is what has happened.
I don't really understand why they need further identification if they already have Id. You are a civil servant working in immigration ( apologies if I'm mistaken) can you shed any light on why the bands were necessary?

 

[Alty]

I don't think any thought went into it at all. Same as the red door fiasco. Even I don't think the state deliberately set out to get people attacked but through lack of thought that is what has happened.
I don't really understand why they need further identification if they already have Id. You are a civil servant working in immigration ( apologies if I'm mistaken) can you shed any light on why the bands were necessary?

I haven't worked in immigration for a while so I don't know precisely why wrist bands were chosen. Perhaps cost. Perhaps there was a lack of confidence in the biometric data provided for use on cards. Perhaps the authorities were worried about some kind of fraud.

I think it's very unfair to blame the state regarding the door or the wrist band issues. The people we should really take issue with are the low lives who'd intimidate or physically attack another human being for the terrible crime of having an asylum claim under consideration. Once caught these nutters should be facing long stints inside.

 

[Aber gas]

I haven't worked in immigration for a while so I don't know precisely why wrist bands were chosen. Perhaps cost. Perhaps there was a lack of confidence in the biometric data provided for use on cards. Perhaps the authorities were worried about some kind of fraud.

I think it's very unfair to blame the state regarding the door or the wrist band issues. The people we should really take issue with are the low lives who'd intimidate or physically attack another human being for the terrible crime of having an asylum claim under consideration. Once caught these nutters should be facing long stints inside.

I don't disagree but I think the wristbands and doors issue has caused more hassle and grief for people than was necessary.

 

[silkyman]

Who cares. They're all just a 'bunch of migrants' anyway, according to Dave.

Calling people fleeing war 'a bunch of migrants' on Holocaust Memorial Day.... Good work.

 

[Aber gas]

Stay classy Dave.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

He really is a bit of a prick, isn't he?

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Outrageous that a group of migrants might be referred to as a bunch. Won't somebody think of the children holocaust?!

 

[silkyman]

Better to stick with 'swarm' yeah?

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

If you'd prefer.

 

[silkyman]

It depends on whether you want to belittle the situation or demonize them, I suppose.

Helps stop people talking about tax and google and that, though.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

And who's fault's that? It was a totally innocuous statement. The Falklands mention was far more objectionable.

 

[Aber gas]

Really interesting article on the refugee crisis and shutting down debate.http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...gees-history-rhyming-holocaust-echoes-of-past

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Polish state TV seemingly reporting that the German authorities deleted all CCTV footage of the attacks in Cologne.

 

[Alty]

Why? Its something the nazi's did.

The old adage of those who forget history are condemned to repeat it is becoming meaningless, because you can't compare anything to the Nazis until they've actually started wiping out sections of the population. When it would be a little too late.

It was the same with the stuff about wristbands. Just pointing out that forcing people to wear visible identifying marks to show the world that they are part of a certain group is 'a thing the Nazi's did'. It doesn't mean that the people who made that decision are five minutes away from a night of the long knives. But that doesn't mean people shouldn't point out that it was a thing that happened.

Pointing out it was something the Nazis did is pretty disingenuous if you don't believe we're heading for something truly horrifying. Nazi officers loved their wives and kids. But there's nothing to be gained from pointing that out to average family men, is there?

 

[mnb089mnb]

They weren't given wristbands to show everyone they were asylum seekers, it was to show the people caring for them that they were eligible for that care. No different to going to a festival and getting s wristband. There is an obsession with noting anything which seems remotely like what the Nazis did.

Spent a few hours at Reading festival and wished I was at the Russian front instead.

Comparing yourself to the Nazis is a simple test to see if you're the bad guys or not, I guess.

 

[Techno Natch]

They weren't given wristbands to show everyone they were asylum seekers, it was to show the people caring for them that they were eligible for that care. No different to going to a festival and getting s wristband. There is an obsession with noting anything which seems remotely like what the Nazis did.

I'm sorry but it's completely different. In times of heightened tensions towards asylum seekers forcing them to wear something that identifies them to everyone is stupid. Same reason we shouldn't brand anyone.

You having wristband on you for some festival probably hasn't resulted in you being targeted for abuse and violence.

I don't think for a minute that was the intention of the authorities but if anyone actually thought about what they were doing then this wouldn't happen.

As for Cameron's comments it was just his routine of chatting shit to score cheap points while forgetting he is talking about actual human beings. How he can still bang on about wanting to help working people is beyond me after he was so determined to cut working tax credits.

The Calais stuff is a perfect of someone needing to take control of a situation as it cannot go on as it is.

The right and anti-fa are doing my head in too. The right want to blow every incident out of proportion and anti-fa seem to ignore all signs that allowing everyone in uncontrolled is a disaster waiting to happen. I normally back everything they do but you need to be realistic.

 

[Womble98]

I agree for sure it could have been done much better, and could lead to things like you described.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Those spoiler HEADLINES above look like they were PENNED by a certain 1FF member.

Probs only if Eb Gd had me me at gunpoint, slaving over articles for his right-wing propaganda machine. Otherwise I would be penning headlines like

UPSTANDING asylum seekers nurse the FLUFFIEST KITTENS back to health

 

[Benito]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...women-baited-heckled-weekend-city-centre.html

Corbyn worshipper comparing the Cologne mass rape and sex assaults as no different to a saturday night in Birmingham.

 

[SUTSS]

I don't think you can legitimately call Jess Phillips a 'Corbyn worshipper'

 

[Womble98]

Jess Phillips isn't a corbyn fan but she is a moron.

 

[Benito]

Ive noticed that now Corbyn is leader of the party all the militant left have risen to the surface.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

well tbf the left now have a leader who is on the left so they would be getting a bit more vocal. it's a win for them

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

I can only assume that she hasn't read some of the accounts. Some really harrowing stuff. We're not just talking about some arses being grabbed or catcalls here. And the "two women murdered a week" comment was an odd one, given that all it really does it demonstrate that women are at less risk than men are.

 

[Hooped Wizard]

Phillips is your typical Rad fem... absolutely fucking barmy.