there's an election

[blade1889]

it's difficult to think of anything MORE establishment than the flippin' Conservative Party

why do people even like May? She's genuinely GHASTLY. I can only imagine they don't really know ANYTHING MUCH ABOUT HER. Strong and stable MY ARSE

Quite agree, but at the moment they're standing for hard Brexit, with Brussels being the establishment they (and a lot of the population) are standing against...how on earth they have managed to paint themselves as anti-establishment is quite amazing, good tactics/PR by the Tories or Corbyn not doing a good enough job? I suspect Farage being a reasonable orator against fairly weak opposition has had a lot to do with it, he's successfully painted Brussels as the demon and the establishment to stand against, as opposed to Westminster.

 

[blade1889]

It's a difficult balance between debunking these sometimes ludicrous "articles" and opinion pieces and being patronising. Personally I believe that the hand has been overplayed by the BBC and the press. The stories are so ludicrous and the bias so obvious that people are being turned off by it. Perhaps the damage has been done but as Tony Benn probably sorta said ours is a perpetual struggle so toughen the fuck up and get on with It.

Guess it depends on the circles you're getting the views from, I look at my uni friends and you're absolutely right, they aren't as interested about what the BBC publish as, say, The Guardian. But they were always Green and Labour supporters.

Back home my mums partner is a former miner, never in a million years would he vote Tory. But suddenly he's complimenting Theresa May and her leadership...he's certainly not being won back round to Labour and is listening to the BBC and will flip as soon as anyone tries to challenge his views, especially if it comes across as "I know better, so just trust me..."

 

[smat]

Do you not think casting people who 'believe' these stories (in parenthesis' to not get into an argument over whether they are true or false) as brainwashed is part of the problem? It comes across as very patronising without wanting to take counter views into account, if I were to be one of the 'brainwashed' the opposition telling me I was such would only seek to push me in the opposite direction...build a bigger divide between their views and mine to irreconcilable levels. This is a big problem when the 'brainwashed' already feel as though their views are being disregarded and are thus leaning towards anything anti-establishment they can, which, rightly or wrongly, is currently the Tories and their hard Brexit.

I don't think anyone's hoping to change minds on 1FF, but nevertheless I'm fed up with this sort of shit. Anyone with concerns about May's approach to Brexit are now being described as saboteurs and traitors, but it's on me to nod sympathetically when someone slags off refugees? Fuck that.

 

[BeesKnees]

I dislike Corbyn and think he's utterly incompetent and I voted Conservative in the last general election but even I am too uncomfortable with this potential BluKip majority to vote anything other than Labour in June.

I'm warming to him. I won't be voting Labour but I'm not sure I've seen a politician campaign so openly and comfortable with the public.
The contrast to May who has everything so controlled and restricted is startling.

I also rate Keir Starmer higher than David Davis. If I wanted someone to negotiate on my behalf I'd rather have the former director of public prosecution than a politician.

 

[silkyman]

But yay fox hunting, eh?

What an incredibly odd thing to come out with. There is probably not one single person in the country who is pro-hunting who isn't already a died in the wool Tory or Kipper (which will mean Tory at this election.) It will literally win 0 new votes. But there will be people who are anti-hunting who will be put off by that.

For all the talk of incompetent Corbyn, May is an absolute car crash.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

But yay fox hunting, eh?

What an incredibly odd thing to come out with. There is probably not one single person in the country who is pro-hunting who isn't already a died in the wool Tory or Kipper (which will mean Tory at this election.) It will literally win 0 new votes. But there will be people who are anti-hunting who will be put off by that.

For all the talk of incompetent Corbyn, May is an absolute car crash.

It's encouraging how much she seems to be trying to screw this election, compared to Corbyn who seems to be winning people over by the day. Unfortunately, I see this election coming too soon for him to have won over enough people. Perhaps if it were being held in July I'd be optimistic.

 

[Jockney]

Labour manifesto leaked

Railway and Royal Mail nationalisation.

Tuition fees to be scrapped, maintenance grants to be reintroduced.

100,000 new council houses a year

Quite a few other notable pledges as well.

Exciting.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

According to the Beeb:

According to the draft, Labour would:

• Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament
• Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration
• Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes
• Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act
• Scrap the public sector pay cap
• Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts
• Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS
• Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year
• Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers

Tories have responded in typical Tory fashion...

"This is a total shambles. Jeremy Corbyn's plans to unleash chaos on Britain have been revealed.

"The commitments in this dossier will rack up tens of billions of extra borrowing for our families and will put Brexit negotiations at risk. Jobs will be lost, families will be hit and our economic security damaged for a generation if Jeremy Corbyn and the coalition of chaos are ever let anywhere near the keys to Downing Street."

Link

 

[BeesKnees]

According to the Beeb:

According to the draft, Labour would:

• Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament
• Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration
• Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes
• Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act
• Scrap the public sector pay cap
• Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts
• Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS
• Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year
• Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers

Tories have responded in typical Tory fashion...

"This is a total shambles. Jeremy Corbyn's plans to unleash chaos on Britain have been revealed.

"The commitments in this dossier will rack up tens of billions of extra borrowing for our families and will put Brexit negotiations at risk. Jobs will be lost, families will be hit and our economic security damaged for a generation if Jeremy Corbyn and the coalition of chaos are ever let anywhere near the keys to Downing Street."

Link

We have 700 billion extra borrowing during austerity and bugger all to show for it. Labour seem to have swallowed the keynesian economic handbook on economic stimulus.

Clear cut policy difference. Conservative continue austerity and borrow 250 bn over 5 years to cover deficit due to low growth and low tax take.
Labour borrow the 250 bn up front an not have a deficit thanks to higher growth and therefore higher tax take.

 

[markwwfc1992]

Fox hunting is barbaric. She can go fuck herself with that one

Agree, is disgraceful to bring this prehistoric 'sport' back into practice. Not sure why she is saying it now either, surely it wont do her campaign any favours...

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

Agree, is disgraceful to bring this prehistoric 'sport' back into practice. Not sure why she is saying it now either, surely it wont do her campaign any favours...

Because the tories are 100% sure they will win this election.

therefore they are using this moment to create an 'honest manifesto' one which has their genuine wants rather than fill it with a few 'vote winners' They are mostly using this election to wipe off anything mentioned 2 years ago they frankly don't want to do.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

Interestingly - Welsh Labour have branded the leaked manifesto as English-only and are distancing themselves from it.

 

[Aber gas]

Interestingly - Welsh Labour have branded the leaked manifesto as English-only and are distancing themselves from it.

I despair of Carwyn. It's him not Corbyn costing votes in Wales.

 

[The Eyes of Self Actual]

Interestingly - Welsh Labour have branded the leaked manifesto as English-only and are distancing themselves from it.

Labour guaranteed to continue their death spiral.

And well earned too. You don't fall into oblivion without having a strong record of letting everyone down and making society a worse place for all.

 

[Captain Scumbag]

I never feel comfortable agreeing with silkyman, but May is awful on the campaign trail (not a terrible thing in my view) and the hunting thing is daft as fuck. Leaving aside all the ethical concerns about animal cruelty, it’s just terrible politics. It’s never going to broaden the party’s support, and what’s the end goal? To remove a law that posh twats usually ignore anyway. The idiot who convinced her it was a good idea should be shot (preferably by someone on horseback).

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

I never feel comfortable agreeing with silkyman, but May is awful on the campaign trail (not a terrible thing in my view) and the hunting thing is daft as fuck. Leaving aside all the ethical concerns about animal cruelty, it’s just terrible politics. It’s never going to broaden the party’s support, and what’s the end goal? To remove a law that posh twats usually ignore anyway. The idiot who convinced her it was a good idea should be shot (preferably by someone on horseback).

tbh, Theresa May's biggest enemy at the moment is complacency. The narrative so far is that Jeremy Corbyn is doomed and May a nailed on cert.

But even if a plurality of the public prefer May and the Tories to Corbyn and Labour, there's very little to make them enthusiastic about voting for May and her ultra-conservative election campaign. There's echoes of the US presidential election - with one side offering bold changes and the other offering credibility.

It feels like an attempt to motivate her base to get out and campaign by hinting at a more radically conservative agenda.

 

[Renegade]

Labour guaranteed to continue their death spiral.

And well earned too. You don't fall into oblivion without having a strong record of letting everyone down and making society a worse place for all.

It’s a shame we only have one party to vote for, but that’s democracy UK style!

 

[Modernist]

Guess it depends on the circles you're getting the views from, I look at my uni friends and you're absolutely right, they aren't as interested about what the BBC publish as, say, The Guardian. But they were always Green and Labour supporters.

Back home my mums partner is a former miner, never in a million years would he vote Tory. But suddenly he's complimenting Theresa May and her leadership...he's certainly not being won back round to Labour and is listening to the BBC and will flip as soon as anyone tries to challenge his views, especially if it comes across as "I know better, so just trust me..."

What exactly does he compliment her on? She hasn't done a thing yet. We seem a nation very easily swayed by popular opinion, if enough media say Mrs May is a good leader them for some reason she is to the majority. You only have to listen to the opinions of people on the street they spout off some sheep like generalisation but when asked for detail or more depth they simply don't give a coherent response.

I always defended the voters in this country and thought that most people were educated and informed enough to make a balanced argument and choose a party after careful consideration. Now it seems whatever the daily mail say or general opinion between groups on facebook is enough to make peoples mind up...it's very worrying.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

What exactly does he compliment her on? She hasn't done a thing yet. We seem a nation very easily swayed by popular opinion, if enough media say Mrs May is a good leader them for some reason she is to the majority. You only have to listen to the opinions of people on the street they spout off some sheep like generalisation but when asked for detail or more depth they simply don't give a coherent response.

I always defended the voters in this country and thought that most people were educated and informed enough to make a balanced argument and choose a party after careful consideration. Now it seems whatever the daily mail say or general opinion between groups on facebook is enough to make peoples mind up...it's very worrying.

The Daily Mail and The Sun will decide the outcome of this election sadly.

 

[Aber gas]

What exactly does he compliment her on? She hasn't done a thing yet. We seem a nation very easily swayed by popular opinion, if enough media say Mrs May is a good leader them for some reason she is to the majority. You only have to listen to the opinions of people on the street they spout off some sheep like generalisation but when asked for detail or more depth they simply don't give a coherent response.

I always defended the voters in this country and thought that most people were educated and informed enough to make a balanced argument and choose a party after careful consideration. Now it seems whatever the daily mail say or general opinion between groups on facebook is enough to make peoples mind up...it's very worrying.

It's to be expected. As soon as Corbyn was elected we knew this was coming. They did it to Milliband and it's multiplied for Corbs. I used to get angry about it but really what's the point? In order for a truly progressive candidate to get elected it has to be done despite traditional media. So yes we point out the ludicrous coverage, challenge it but also carry on with the message.
Corbyn just needs to carry on doing what he's doing, rallies, meeting people and sending his best people out to bat. Rayner, Gardiner, long and Lewis. There is no point wishing the media was different because cosy chats on the one show just ain't gonna happen.
Forza Corbyn.

 

[Jockney]

Sixty-four percent of households own their own home. Interest rates are at an all-time low. These people aren't stupid, they're just mostly comfortable and predictably self-interested (not a moral judgement, it's just true). To the sections of the working class who are voting against their own interests, the rejection of the Labour Party under any guise is perfectly understandable given that much of the New Labour old guard still lurk either within the PLP or on the periphery.

And then there's the fact that almost the entirety of the political and media establishment have for decades whipped up a fervour of xenophobia and racism over immigration, but we have that debate on here every week...

 

[Jockney]

Also, calling people stupid is a really shit way to win people around (and is able-ist: WOKE GOLD STAR MEMBER HERE). Martino Knockavelli is always calling me stupid and honestly all it does is make me double down on proffering my opinion on absolutely everything.

 

[Gashead]

demonising every tory leader has a bit of a diluting effect that does nothing but help them imo. People said the same shit about Cameron and he's far less offensive than May. I also don't think the NHS will all be privatised and schools will implode either but you read that shit on Twitter every day. It definitely helps someone sneak in and do some batshit stuff occasionally because people who vote conservative probably zone out from all the noise created daily by internet memes and your 1 million vice/buzzfeed journos (?) who get hysterical about everything.

I'm still pretending to have a social conscience and voting labour as it stands - my borough have binned the long-term Labour candidate and replaced him with Mr Socialist it seems though which given the area's demographic seems ill-advised - I also think Soubry's one of the least offensive Tory MPs out there (again, imo).

With all due respect, the stuff about the NHS is backed up by the treatment of patients (customers?) by Virgin Care (this was on BBC News last night, I'm not on Twitter) who are struggling to run children's services in Wiltshire.

I think people have it in their heads that the NHS being privatised will be announced or something. As funding decreases, more of this private company crap will clog up the system. Some of it not that bad, some of it very bad.

While I agree with the social media bubble thing being relevant, stuff about the NHS isn't particularly in my view.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

Sixty-four percent of households own their own home. Interest rates are at an all-time low. These people aren't stupid, they're just mostly comfortable and predictably self-interested (not a moral judgement, it's just true). To the sections of the working class who are voting against their own interests, the rejection of the Labour Party under any guise is perfectly understandable given that much of the New Labour old guard still lurk either within the PLP or on the periphery.

And then there's the fact that almost the entirety of the political and media establishment have for decades whipped up a fervour of xenophobia and racism over immigration, but we have that debate on here every week...

There's the total lack of any sort of underlying structure for a coherent left politics too. Some people think that Corbyn can offer a left-platform and people will vote for it. But they won't. Not cos they're stupid, but because they're not that engaged, and you quite quickly run into the unrelenting hostility of the media and political classes. Like, even if he won, how's he meant to actually implement anything when the full force of the institutions of the state is thrown at him?

But this is a problem that every social democrat and socialist has run across, and one Corbyn could and should have predicted. And largely they worked around it by building their own power bases based on mass movements that can act as a weight for the institutions that will line up behind the status quo.

Corbyn's singly failed to do any of this. Partly this is because major trade unions and labour councils are mostly run by right-wing scabs. Partly it's because Momentum has been paralyzed by infighting between its various Trotskyist factions.

 

[Abertawe]

But this is a problem that every social democrat and socialist has run across, and one Corbyn could and should have predicted. And largely they worked around it by building their own power bases based on mass movements that can act as a weight for the institutions that will line up behind the status quo.

Such as?

 

[Martino Knockavelli]

Also, calling people stupid is a really shit way to win people around (and is able-ist: WOKE GOLD STAR MEMBER HERE). Martino Knockavelli is always calling me stupid and honestly all it does is make me double down on proffering my opinion on absolutely everything.

tfw you're blamed for the collapse of democracy

 

[JaseTheVillain]

Theresa May has made a speech.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=659966507526759

 

[silkyman]

I see Question Time had opening questions from Tory councillors posing as members of the public last week. Those lefty bastards at the BBC aren't half giving team May a soft ride.

 

[Aber gas]

Polling high for Labour.

 

[Techno Natch]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/i-cant-live-100-month-10427367

Well done to this lady. Pip assessments are administered in completely the wrong way and the MP who was saying she can help can Fuck off too as it's their government who are putting disabled people through this.