Welcome Derby County to League 1

[Tom_CUFC]

Football needs a complete overhaul from top to bottom but of course those at the top have absolutely no interest in doing so. The ESL debacle has been swept under the carpet consigned to history with no consequences, and the top PL clubs will continue to squeeze every penny they can from every possible source without any worry for the consequences to the rest of the sport. At least half of the PL who may be oblivious to it now will be susceptible to these sort of problems once they get relegated, gambling to make it back on parachute payments, failing and being stuck with large contracts with no relegation clauses. Cutting your cloth and dropping a few divisions is never seen as the solution and the spending will continue in a frenetic attempt to turn the ship around but at that point it's hit the iceberg and is on the way down. Fans suffer (although I have less sympathy than I used to as so many are oblivious to it when the times are good), people at the lower rung lose their jobs, small local creditors lose out, but those at the top get their bonuses and the players still get the obscene amounts that they're on. As mentioned above, the turnover to wages ratios at all levels of professional football are completely barmy, and unsustainable for all but a few at the top (and even those are built on debt for most, look at what's happening to Barcelona now...).

Action was needed 15 years ago, it's too late now, the PL and the top 6-10 teams are too far gone and have far too much power for there ever to be the right resolution for English football. There will be many casualties over the next decade and it could be any of us, it will probably be a couple currently in the top flight, and whilst I think we're past the point where that much can be done anymore what frustrates me more is the complete ambivalence to it by the majority of football supporters at our level. Those who were screaming about the ESL 5 months ago still tune into the Premier League at the weekend, still go to the B team trophy (our two attendances have been depressingly high this season when we were one of the better boycotters pre-COVID) and still ultimately support actions by their football club that are financially irresponsible, yet will cry wolf when it's their club out with the buckets in a few years time.

Of course the fit and proper test is another matter. Oldham is a "fit and proper" issue not one driven necessarily by the wealth at the top of the game, Reading probably a combination of the two, Derby from what I can tell is really the former with Morris seemingly being of good intentions when he got in but trying to spend his way out of a problem and never knowing when to stop.

There are a myriad of other problems within the game but the vast majority of them ultimately come back to the greed at the top, but what else can be done now to fix it? It's too late and the many will be controlled by the few forever more I fear, as long as they're around anyway.

 

[Luke Imp]

I was saying on our forum yesterday, I don't understand this 'negotiating with the EFL' bollocks. This is the crime, this is the penalty, and this is when it'll be applied. If it's towards the end of a season and a points deduction won't make a difference, delay it so they start the following season on minus points.

Derby stringing the process out until they were safely into this season was expected and it was allowed to happen.

R.e. the owners, it's too easy to run debt up at a Club and the owner(s) walk away. These owners should be held far more accountable than they are, for example being financially responsible for contracts made under their stewardship above a certain amount i.e. if a Club whose sustainable playing budget is calculated at £1m a year and the owners comes in and doubles it, he should be personally responsible for that increase until it's brought back to that level, not until he's had enough and walks away from it.

The above isn't too similar to what Peter Swann did at Gainsborough Trinity a few years back. He bankrolled them way beyond what they could afford but when he left for Scunthorpe, he left enough in the bank to cover all the playing contracts that remained from his time there so it gave them a year to re-adjust their budgets, let their high earner contracts expire or sell them etc.

 

[WhiteRussian]

As someone said, fit and proper is all very well but if there is only one person in to purchase a club, and he doesn't pass the EFL standards do they say no and let the club fold or say yes, in the hope it will turn out OK. They are going to be screwed whichever way they decide.

 

[masi51]

As someone said, fit and proper is all very well but if there is only one person in to purchase a club, and he doesn't pass the EFL standards do they say no and let the club fold or say yes, in the hope it will turn out OK. They are going to be screwed whichever way they decide.

Wigan off the top of my head are the only club, who have had potential owners fail the fit and proper test and they look like they have benefited with there present owners.

We got screwed over and the EFL passed a person who was banned from being a director. He then put the club in turmoil for three years and nearly put us out of business when clearly the was other investors who wanted to buy Bolton.

So i would say if they fail the test DONT let them buy a club. Unfortunatly it may end with that club going out of business but letting a bent owner take over a club will not stop that.

And the sooner government changes the law where football creditors receive all of there money the better.

 

[Laker]

It could be easy to regulate football club finances but it does need either buy-in from the clubs or the leagues/FA to just force it upon them. Neither will happen sadly.

I mentioned this before but this isn’t a dissimilar situation to the FCA regulatory capital rules governing investment managers. Companies who manage other people’s money literally have to pass a risk-based test each month on their accounts and make several monthly/quarterly/annual submissions. There has to be evidence that they can last out the next three months (but this could be extended to 12 months or longer for football). Losses have to be covered by owners capital (not loans). Independent auditors check the submissions, the FCA can take away licenses from firms who fail to stick to the rules. It’s so bloody easy but the clubs, the leagues and the FA won’t do anything about it. So it’ll continue to get worse and more clubs will go to the wall.

 

[Agombar stool]

I read earlier that Fleetwood Town owner Andy Pilley is currently in court over fraud and money laundering charges.

Fleetwood have posted losses of 20 million quid and they owe 21 million to companies owned by Pilley. For some reason I always thought they were one of the well run clubs in the football league. Evidently not!

 

[PuB]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1440681467135205376

As mentioned above

 

[SMH]

Doesn't Pilley own an energy company? The way that industry is going, I'd be worried if I were a Fleetwood fan.

 

[Agombar stool]

Doesn't Pilley own an energy company? The way that industry is going, I'd be worried if I were a Fleetwood fan.

He does, BES Energy I think they are called. That's why he is in court accused of various misdemeanours as owner of that firm. But yes, he probably has plenty more to be concerned about going by the current issues in the energy sector.

 

[PuB]

The way the energy sector is at the moment it also makes you wonder about Dale Vince at Forest Green too.

 

[Agombar stool]

The way the energy sector is at the moment it also makes you wonder about Dale Vince at Forest Green too.

Apparently he's hedged 90% of the company or something so I think he's been very sensible and is unlikely to be at risk.

 

[Imp in Branston]

And all the companies like Sky and BT Sports were/are always fawning over the likes of Fleetwood/Salford/FGR about what amazing clubs they all are.

 

[Bartonyellow]

And all the companies like Sky and BT Sports were/are always fawning over the likes of Fleetwood/Salford/FGR about what amazing clubs they all are.

I’ve noticed Salford’s attendances are plummeting. 1400 home fans the other week. Seems the bubble has burst for the hangers on as they have not had promotion every season.

 

[Si Robin]

Their first season attendances would have been massively inflated anyway by ground hoppers and those going to the their team's first match at Salford.

 

[Railway Blue]

I think Mel Morris has the best intentions for derby, he’s a fan who has spent huge amounts of his own fortune chasing the dream and very nearly done it in getting to the play off final but unfortunately that chasing has now come at a cost and it’s only right they face the consequences that’s coming their way.

I think it would have made more sense for them to have accepted the deduction last season and be relegated then start fresh this season but instead the fans will have put up with another year of struggle, fingers crossed we’ll stay up so we can play them next season.

KTF

Yes it's easy to demonise Mel Morris, but I read that he has put in £200m of his own cash so the problem was already there and his money failed to fix it.

 

[SF_]

I find these 'projects' at Fleetwood, Salford & Fylde odd. Clubs like us, Shitpool, Blackburn & Burnley have always struggled for crowds with United & Liverpool on our doorstep. So what hope do they have? Completely unsustainable.

 

[Bartonyellow]

I find these 'projects' at Fleetwood, Salford & Fylde odd. Clubs like us, Shitpool, Blackburn & Burnley have always struggled for crowds with United & Liverpool on our doorstep. So what hope do they have? Completely unsustainable.

If you wanted to project surely there are still some great old clubs out there with big potential.
Plymouth springs to mind. Huge catchment area. Bristol Rovers perhaps too.
For non league Worcester used to have a big fan base and is a large city.
why pick forest green in the middle of a village ? Or fylde ? And Salford for fucks sake. If I had the dough I’d buy a club with history and a decent fan base. Something to build on.

 

[Bartonyellow]

Yes it's easy to demonise Mel Morris, but I read that he has put in £200m of his own cash so the problem was already there and his money failed to fix it.

If lampard had been more adventurous in the final it could be villa in admin. Such small margins in football.

 

[masi51]

I find these 'projects' at Fleetwood, Salford & Fylde odd. Clubs like us, Shitpool, Blackburn & Burnley have always struggled for crowds with United & Liverpool on our doorstep. So what hope do they have? Completely unsustainable.

Never understood why you lot struggle with crowds....Your borders only have one league team [Blackburn]
Nothing north of you on the M6, you can go right out to near Blackpool/Southport on the coast. Massive land catchment area

 

[SF_]

Never understood why you lot struggle with crowds....Your borders only have one league team [Blackburn]
Nothing north of you on the M6, you can go right out to near Blackpool/Southport on the coast. Massive land catchment area

Probably because we've done absolutely fuck all since 1961.

Plus loads of fairweather fans defected to Blackburn in the 90s, you'll see every Premier League football shirt imaginable in Preston - Newcastle, West Ham, Spurs, Villa, all sorts.

I'm surprised our crowds have been pretty consistent to be honest, look at Blackburn's, just a decade outside of the Prem.

 

[masi51]

Probably because we've done absolutely fuck all since 1961.

Plus loads of fairweather fans defected to Blackburn in the 90s, you'll see every Premier League football shirt imaginable in Preston - Newcastle, West Ham, Spurs, Villa, all sorts.

I'm surprised our crowds have been pretty consistent to be honest, look at Blackburn's, just a decade outside of the Prem.

Blackburn will never ever have decent crowds just a town in a hole with moor land surrounding most of its borders.
I have been to Preston and i have seen the number of mainly Liverpool and Man Utd tops on display.
A sad sight

 

[Modernist]

Hardly confirmed as it stands 3 wins and they might be out the bottom 3.

 

[Si Robin]

If you wanted to project surely there are still some great old clubs out there with big potential.
Plymouth springs to mind. Huge catchment area. Bristol Rovers perhaps too.
For non league Worcester used to have a big fan base and is a large city.
why pick forest green in the middle of a village ? Or fylde ? And Salford for fucks sake. If I had the dough I’d buy a club with history and a decent fan base. Something to build on.

I can't comment on Worcester, but the logical reason is that they've picked clubs with the lowest likelihood of resistance to their projects.

Vince has changed FGR's colours, badge and will soon be moving them out of Nailsworth completely. Their fanbase at the time of less than 1,000 fans were happy just to be saved from going under. A number have gone, but as long as they keep making Ecotricity staff attend games and sending shirts to Yr 3 kids in the Stroud area, they'll have enough to look ok.

Salford is as close to Man Utd as a club could get without the same issues. I know Bury went belly up, but had the Nevilles, et al, bought them and tried to change the badge and colours to red with white and black trim, then it simply wouldn't have been waved through. Instead, they got over Salford's 80 fans without a care in the World.

 

[PuB]

Derby given a further 9 point deduction

 

[Indian Dan]

Hopefully Reading get docked a belly full too. Plastic fuckers.

 

[TractorBoys]

This is a very good day for the EFL in terms of protecting integrity. It's tough on Derby fans but this has to be the punishment for sides stepping out of line and they only have their corrupt owners to blame.

 

[eric read]

Hopefully Reading get docked a belly full too. Plastic fuckers.

Completely agree. They must be due some sort of penalty for having wages at something like 200% of income for the last few years? They should face an automatic sanction just for signing Andy Carroll!

Back in the Elm Park days they could barely get 3,000 through the door and we never really saw them as proper rivals.

 

[Indian Dan]

Tbh, there’s a tiny bit of jealousy in my remark. Got the stadium had spells in the PL. Would either of us turn it down if we managed it.

Strangely, there is something warm and fluffy about just being a decent lower league club.

 

[eric read]

Tbh, there’s a tiny bit of jealousy in my remark. Got the stadium had spells in the PL. Would either of us turn it down if we managed it.

Strangely, there is something warm and fluffy about just being a decent lower league club.

Wouldn't turn it down Dan, but I think either of our clubs would bring a bit more authenticity to the journey.

 

[Devon_Lad]

T'is cute little 'ol Oldham and Swinny wishing point deductions and the likes on their biggest neighbour. It reminds me of Plymouth pretending Portsmouth are their rivals when in reality, Reading probably don't even know either of you are playing professional and full time footy.