West London towerblock Fire

[Blitzballer]

working in construction myself, this shit does not spread like that. You have fire curtains, fire check partitions and doors certified for a least 30 mins. From the sound of it the whole thing went up in under 15 mins. Reckon some directors at a company are going to be fucked for manslaughter

 

[PuB]

Absolutely my thoughts Blitz. Nothing like this should be able to happen in one of the richest countries in the world. Someone has skimped massively somewhere.

 

[Cornish Piskie]

We have a communal fire alarm. It's loud, goes off very easily and triggers all of the other alarms in the building, too. We also have heavy fire doors.

It is annoying, but I am ultimately glad for it.

Sprinklers would be better and are recommended by Fire Prevention Officials.

But they're expensive.

 

[Aber gas]

http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/ne...-safe-last-year-conservatives-rejected/14/06/

Here's a list of individuals that voted against better housing regulation.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.in...es-fit-for-human-habitation-a6809691.html?amp

 

[Jockney]

Sprinklers would be better and are recommended by Fire Prevention Officials.

But they're expensive.

I don't know how sprinklers work. Are they sensitive to small amount of smoke? Where are they usually installed – only hallways?

 

[Krazy8]

I don't know how sprinklers work. Are they sensitive to small amount of smoke? Where are they usually installed – only hallways?

I think they're set off by the heat not the smoke, stops them being activated unnecessarily (burned toast, cigarettes etc).

 

[T.A]

Yeah I remember being in Halls back in 2011 - jeez that's a while ago. Anyway anytime someone set it off in any block the whole building would have to evacuate. Surely common sense to do this in all multi-storey buildings. A catalogue of errors or blatant corners being cut and hopefully we find out and people are prosecuted.

 

[Gilly?]

Here's a list of individuals that voted against better housing regulation.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tories-vote-down-law-requiring-landlords-make-their-homes-fit-for-human-habitation-a6809691.html?amp

Victoria Atkins is our local MP and she's a fucking wanker. Karl McCartney is the Lincoln Cuntservative MP too, hes also a fucking wanker.

Got loads of folk on my Twitter saying it's disgraceful how Corbyn is point scoring over all this, seemingly forgetting he's campaigned for better social housing for God knows how many years.

 

[Aber gas]

Corbyn calls for empty homes to be made available for the people made homeless by the fire. A sensible start.

 

[shane]

working in construction myself, this shit does not spread like that. You have fire curtains, fire check partitions and doors certified for a least 30 mins. From the sound of it the whole thing went up in under 15 mins. Reckon some directors at a company are going to be fucked for manslaughter

I was thinking the same. Every development the company I work for are involved in (mainly in the Camden and Westminster boroughs) involves a hell of a lot of time going back and forth over fire regulations. Thats for new build and refurbishments. Though its for the private market and not on this scale so not sure its comparable. It fucking should be though.

 

[Abertawe]

When it first went up I thought it might have been someone trying to make shatter or something because the speed indicated some kind of flammable accelerant. The cladding is burning material but it's surely it's not combustible enough to just go up in minutes like it did. There are fleeting references to exposed gas pipes which goes tandem with the initial eye witness accounts of the flames shooting up a particular part of the tower.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

The slow drip feed on information - on casualties, on causes - is like being punched in the gut every hour. I'm so full of rage and hate for the people whose indifference to the lives of working class people has caused this, and seeing them manoeuvre to shift the blame away from their own callousness is disgusting.

I hope one day soon we can burn them and burn capitalism.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

I guess this is how people older than me feel or felt about Hillsborough, the New Cross Fire, Aberfan or Gresford. Those folk memories that form a wellspring for a deep-seated loathing of the ruling classes. That point of reference of how little those people responsible for your safety care about your lives when there's money to be made.

The Times is reporting that cladding the entire building in fire-retardant material would have cost an extra £5k. These people have been murdered for pennies.

 

[Renegade]

The Times is reporting that cladding the entire building in fire-retardant material would have cost an extra £5k. These people have been murdered for pennies.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

Guardian report of the same - the cladding was £2 per square metre cheaper than the fire-retardant version.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-grenfell-tower-identified-as-omnis-exteriors

 

[AFCB_Mark]

Times that 5k for every block in the country that has been cladded in recent years and will now need to be reviewed and fixed - from Corbyn's own Islington constituency to the few similar looking blocks in Poole near me, and right the way around the country. Surveying and fixing this is certainly going to add up for someone. Local authorities via tax payers ultimately I suppose. If it can be ensured it never happens again, then at least a tiny tiny bit of good might come from this mess.

We all live and work in spaces that with more money would be safer, but building regs when followed are supposed to ensure a safe baseline. But it's not accurate to say that just 5k would have stopped this, because that has to be replicated out across the entire stock of similar housing, otherwise it'd just have happened elsewhere.

 

[Blitzballer]

Saying some of the victims will never be identified

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

Protesters have stormed the council offices trying to get answers.

If there aren't riots this weekend, I'd be astonished.

 

[Blitzballer]

new death toll figure is 70

 

[Techno Natch]

Times that 5k for every block in the country that has been cladded in recent years and will now need to be reviewed and fixed - from Corbyn's own Islington constituency to the few similar looking blocks in Poole near me, and right the way around the country. Surveying and fixing this is certainly going to add up for someone. Local authorities via tax payers ultimately I suppose. If it can be ensured it never happens again, then at least a tiny tiny bit of good might come from this mess.

We all live and work in spaces that with more money would be safer, but building regs when followed are supposed to ensure a safe baseline. But it's not accurate to say that just 5k would have stopped this, because that has to be replicated out across the entire stock of similar housing, otherwise it'd just have happened elsewhere.

Several of my clients have been contacted about fire safety since this happened. You can guarantee there have been some very nervous housing providers going through records this week.

 

[Aber gas]

Protesters have stormed the council offices trying to get answers.

If there aren't riots this weekend, I'd be astonished.

Anxious about this. Stay safe mate.

 

[Murphy]

Sort of feels like London is a on a knife edge at the moment.

 

[Jockney]

Was meant to be there this evening. Hospital appointment for my dad has kept me in Hackney. I'll be up there tomorrow.

Solidarity with residents. Solidarity with occupiers, both resident and non-resident. Stay safe, stay strong.

 

[Blitzballer]

new death toll figure is 70

Sorry, the 70 are missing / presumed dead

 

[Martino Quackavelli]

I'm a bit confused around the furore r.e. names and number of the dead. Surely it's best to play it safe and only say someone is dead when they are 100% confirmed dead than rush it? They've announced 30 dead and confirmed around 3 names publicly, presumably more in private to the families. They haven't said there are only 30 dead they have said there are 70 or so missing and some of them will definitely be deceased. It just feels like the right way to do this, especially when the upper floors are so hard to get to right now.

 

[nousername]

Understandable that people are very angry, but it's way too early to point the finger at the cladding (or anything else for that matter). Let the investigators do their job and reach a conclusion.

Whatever was installed in the design of the refurbishment should have been specified (and installed) as per current fire regulations, signed off by a fire engineer, local council officers, meet manufacturer warranties, etc., etc.

I'm not completely familiar with the UK process, having not worked there for a long time, but in short it's very difficult (not impossible of course) for a contractor or employer to design and build something (particularly on a Local Government project) that violates those sorts of standards and regulations.

Will be interested to see the outcome of the investigation.

* FWIW I'm currently working on a high rise residential development in UAE.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

This is pretty damning (read the whole thing)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4614534/fears-cut-price-cladding-ignored-Grenfell.html

The panels which transformed Grenfell Tower from a safe tower block into a deathtrap were made by the US company Arconic.

Called Reynobond PE, they are made from aluminium and polyethylene, which is also used to make plastic bags and bottles.

Documents obtained by The Mail on Sunday from Arconic clearly show that its cladding products containing polyethylene (PE) should not be used on buildings over a height of 10 metres.

Arconic said: 'It is crucial to choose the adapted products in order to avoid the fire spreading to the whole building. Especially when it comes to facades and roofs, the fire can spread extremely rapidly.

'It is especially crucial for public establishments. Buildings are also classified according to their height, which will define which materials are safer to use. Another important rule when it comes to the height of buildings concerns the accessibility of the fire brigade – as soon as the building is higher than the firefighters' ladders, it has to be conceived [sic] with an incombustible material.'

The company provides its customers with a height guidance table. While PE can be used up to 10 metres, products which are fire retardant should be used on buildings up to 30 metres. Above that height – the limit of American fire ladders – Arconic strictly advises cladding panels containing non-combustible substances.

The KCTMO chose the safety consultants that put in the cheapest bid to carry out the work. The unnamed bidder was also chosen because they were happy to challenge the London Fire Brigade over its safety rules.

Minutes from a KCTMO board meeting in November 2016 also reveal that safety reviews on nearby blocks were delayed due to a shortage of firefighters.

There are now growing fears of a repeat of the Grenfell Tower tragedy elsewhere because thousands of tower blocks have not been subjected to adequate safety testing.

A Freedom of Information request submitted to Southampton City Council last year revealed that it had carried out fire risk assessments on just 200 of its 1,023 blocks of flats.

Another FoI request disclosed that in Tower Hamlets, East London, most of the local authority's safety checks on public buildings, including tower blocks, were out of date – only 203 of 845 assessments remained valid.

 

[nousername]

One person in the office thinks it's an insurance job.

 

[HertsWolf]

The significance of this one fire is such that some news reports on the radio just call it The Fire. Those of us old enough probably already classify it alongside disasters like the Herald of Free Enterprise, Lockerbie, Aberfan, Hillsborough, Bradford, Piper Alpha. Events for which you know that people were culpable yet it's all brushed into a pile called "learning" and those who failed those who perished quietly disappear with their pension. And a gold watch. If anyone goes to prison, it'll be some hapless clerk or engineer at the lowest level. No decision-maker will be held to account. It's why the young hate politicians.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

The re-housing effort is under way as 70 apartments in a luxury block, where prices usually start at £1.5m, have been procured by the government.
#dayofrage