Attacks in Paris + Belgium

[Abertawe]

do u have, like, any damning evidence of this? or is this just another lefty 'the jews and america: eternal puppeteers' shtick, cause they're getting boring

Read up. Isil come out of the wilderness and are able to take down commercial planes all on their own, legit. They make their own weps, def not given em.

The Pentagon admitted on Wednesday that one of the airdrops of weapons intended for Kurds in the besieged Syrian town of Kobani almost certainly ended up in the hands of the Islamic State (Isis) fighters. The Pentagon blamed the wind

LOL

Can only do food for thought dude.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

Read up. Isil come out of the wilderness and are able to take down commercial planes all on their own, legit. They make their own weps, def not given em.

LOL

Can only do food for thought dude.

so daesh intercept an air drop, and u think that means they're funding them? i guess if the u.s. gives arms to the kurds, daesh kills the kurds and takes their weapons, then that is also u.s. support for daesh? flimsy, very flimsy. what about israel too? how have they been arming daesh?

they haven't came out of nowhere either. they split from one of al qaeda's more sophisticated factions. al qaeda in iraq had enormous power and resources. they captured cities during the occupation

ahaha the second vid is great. this is all a joke yeah?

edit: make their own weapons? haha no. i have read up on them though, a great deal. u know where they came from, i trust? AQI. AQI had a great deal of weapons, it's how they captured and held territory during the occupation. AQI operated in syria as al-nusra, which received funding (nusra still do) from the gulf states. add to that the weaponry from the purged sunni army of the saddam era and the weaponry from the maligned sunni tribes and u have a lot of weapons without need for conspiracy theories. guns aren't the issue really, there are a lot of guns floating around. the shia iraqi folded when daesh rolled in, cause none of em wanted to die for the sunnis. that left a lot of heavy weaponry in daesh hands. after that daesh just took city after city despite being consistently outnumbered due to fear tacticts and the intelligence of haji bakr, a (now dead) former spook in saddam's security services. it's partly the lack of bakr that's led to daesh's reversal of fortunes

 

[Abertawe]

Because al Qaeda were in Iraq prior to the invasion. Lost it right there. Good night.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

thought i explained it pretty well myself

no state has funded daesh in any meaningful way. people have funded their parent organisation, AQI, and their sort of sister organisation, al nusra. after that they had their own sources of funding, wealthy wahabbi individuals, artifacts, oil. most of their weaponry is plundered from the battlefield tho

 

[HertsWolf]

Far from being absurd, it's exactly what we are doing. We're vetting all of the people we accept into the UK while they wait in refugee camps in safe countries bordering Syria. There is no "let them in or leave them in Syria" scenario at play here, that's a ridiculous false dichotomy, as I have already said.

As is often the case with you, you have changed the discussion. The analogy was about leaving a building or leaving a country. But never mind, your ability to kill debate and conversations with words like "mental", "absurd" and withering comments has meant that many will take their interesting discussion elsewhere. Well done Gradgrind! You are right again! I think I make that EG 433, rest of us Nil.

 

[HertsWolf]

Hahahaha. Wow.

For goodness' sake, when will you learn that EG is always right?
Especially when he's being "illustrative".

 

[Christian Slater]

Why polarise it? It isn't a case of us accepting them into the UK or them dying, if it was, I don't think anyone would be able to object. We should instead look after them in Syria, in Lebanon, in Turkey so that they can easily return.
-'#

I'm not attempting to suggest it's as clear cut as them dying, but it's true that many will without sanctuary. I'm also not referring exclusively to the UK as being responsible for granting asylum.

We can't keep them safe in the countries you suggested because they aren't safe places to be, simply.

 

[spireite]

To lighten things a little, is anyone a little jealous of France and her great National Anthem?

If the same event had happened in the UK could you imagine people walking away singing GSTQ?

God our national anthem is fucking dreary. That's why noone ever wants us to win anything at the Olympics. It takes half an hour for the flag to get up the fucking pole.

I'd prefer it to be 'Rule, Britannia'

 

[Harrier94]

Here's an article from The Onion back in 2003

http://www.theonion.com/multiblogpost/this-war-will-destabilize-the-entire-mideast-regio-11534

I know The Onion is a parody news website but this seems to have come true

 

[smat]

The War on Terror is going well, then.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

looks like it hit a snag round the 04 mark

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

This is worth a read - an explanation of why the flow of refugees from Syria damages ISIS and their motivations for the Paris attack.

Basically idiots like Ebeneezer Goode are exactly the sort of Europeans ISIS want.

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/targeting-europes-refugees-is-not-the-answer

the migrant flow is anathema to ISIS, undermining the group's message that its self-styled caliphate is a refuge. If it were a refuge, then hundreds of thousands of people would surely be settling in its lands instead of risking their lives on miserable journeys to Europe. The hostile reaction to refugees, therefore, only bolsters ISIS's contentions.

it is true that ISIS could exploit the crisis to insert operatives into Europe. At the same time, however, one must remember that the group already has thousands of members with European Union passports and has very good document forgers. Therefore, the sole reason for nesting additional operatives in the refugee flows would be to spark a backlash against Syrian and other refugees as well as the native Muslim populations of Europe. Even if this happens, the few jihadist operatives that slip through should not be used to tar the other 99 percent.

 

[Veggie Legs]

To lighten things a little, is anyone a little jealous of France and her great National Anthem?

If the same event had happened in the UK could you imagine people walking away singing GSTQ?

Yes, very much so. If I was going to Wembley tonight I expect I'd enjoy singing that more than GSTQ.

I don't really have anything to add to this discussion that hasn't already been said, but I always find reading these kind of debates fascinating. I'd be interested to know what people think will/should happen in terms of UK security as a result but that might be better off in another thread.

 

[Conker]

This is worth a read - an explanation of why the flow of refugees from Syria damages ISIS and their motivations for the Paris attack.

Basically idiots like Ebeneezer Goode are exactly the sort of Europeans ISIS want.

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/targeting-europes-refugees-is-not-the-answer

Everytime I see you post it's calling somebody a idiot or something along those lines. Calm down.

 

[Aber gas]

Everytime I see you post it's calling somebody a idiot or something along those lines. Calm down.

And you should see of the abuse targeting Ian. He's being calm by using idiot. I know that I wouldn't be keeping that calm.

 

[G-Dragon]

Just curious, how many here would welcome refugees to live in their home?

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

Just curious, how many here would welcome refugees to live in their home?

i would

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

Everytime I see you post it's calling somebody a idiot or something along those lines. Calm down.

Yeah, that wasn't fair. What I meant is reacting to this by demanding greater border security is deeply stupid and counter-productive.

 

[TomPNE94]

Just curious, how many here would welcome refugees to live in their home?

I would. (Although it's not my home, not my decision)

 

[Techno Natch]

Just curious, how many here would welcome refugees to live in their home?

I would. We've had a couple of homeless people stay here already.

Would you?

 

[Womble98]

Only if they could speak English so I could communicate with them.

 

[spireite]

Just curious, how many here would welcome refugees to live in their home?

Nah. What if they're terrorists?

 

[mowgli]

No we like our space,plus we live in a 1 bedroom flat.

 

[T.A]

Nah. What if they're terrorists?

They'll have money so they'll be able to pay rent.

 

[spireite]

They'll have money so they'll be able to pay rent.

Every cloud!

 

[Blitzballer]

How many has Angela Merkel and Dave Cameron personally taken in?

 

[mowgli]

How many has Angela Merkel and Dave Cameron personally taken in?

Merkel will soon be asking us for asylum as she's been turned on by the German electorate.

 

[blade1889]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/112510

Yeah I've signed it. And what?

 

[Bobbin']

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/112510

Yeah I've signed it. And what?

How pointless, due to the amount of signatures on the other petition, this matter has to be 'discussed' anyway. What's the point in petioning for the same discussion?

 

[.V.]

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.com/2015/11/close-borders-petition.html?m=1