Attacks in Paris + Belgium

[Cheese & Biscuits]

*commenting to follow thread*

You know you can just press 'Watch Thread' at the top, don't you?

 

[blade1889]

You know you can just press 'Watch Thread' at the top, don't you?

Apparently not! Thanks!

 

[Cmon Norn Iron]

This bastard lives in london,should be hung

 

[M Dogg]

I'd pass that over to the police tbh. At the very least he's associated himself with a terrorist organisation.

 

[HertsWolf]

This bastard lives in london,should be hung

I kind of like that he uses Western technology and the ability to speak out against the majority that is so cherished in Western democracy, while ejaculating such arrant shite. He appears not to have noticed that everyone is escaping the caliphate. I'm not sure if this is because the caliphate's not the exciting place it was said to be originally, or whether the TV is better in Europe.

On the plus side, if ISIS win, Facebook will need to be etched onto a goat's arse and trotted around to your friends, because that would be the extent of civilization after an IS victory.

 

[mnb089mnb]

This bastard lives in london,should be hung

Why are you spreading this for?

 

[HertsWolf]

If 500,000 jihadists are on their way to Europe, as promised by Alan el-Miserablebastardi, there is going to a demand for 36 million virgins. (Each jihadist gets 72 virgins in paradise, IIRC).

This is a logistical problem that hasn't been thought through properly. Especially not in Wolverhampton and possibly Birmingham too. Tbh, we were fucked with the nativity in the Back Country because it wasn't possible to get three wise men at short notice and Poundland were out of myrrh. Getting hold of 36 million virgins at short notice in Tipton is not going to be easy.

Is anyone aware of parts of the country that are stockpiling virgins in the event of an IS victory?

 

[M Dogg]

If 500,000 jihadists are on their way to Europe, as promised by Alan el-Miserablebastardi, there is going to a demand for 36 million virgins. (Each jihadist gets 72 virgins in paradise, IIRC).

This is a logistical problem that hasn't been thought through properly. Especially not in Wolverhampton and possibly Birmingham too. Tbh, we were fucked with the nativity in the Back Country because it wasn't possible to get three wise men at short notice and Poundland were out of myrrh. Getting hold of 36 million virgins at short notice in Tipton is not going to be easy.

Is anyone aware of parts of the country that are stockpiling virgins in the event of an IS victory?

They should just go visit my old Uni, none of the girls there wanted to have sex with me. Probably virgins, that's why.

 

[HertsWolf]

They should just go visit my old Uni, none of the girls there wanted to have sex with me. Probably virgins, that's why.

I thought you said they were all f**kin' lesbians!

 

[HertsWolf]

Why are you spreading this for?

So we can mock them? Extremists hate people mocking them.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

"Cancel Christmas and abolish Easter"?

That sounds more like a Harry Redknapp team talk.

And what this Jack has to do with it I've no idea.

 

[Cmon Norn Iron]

Why are you spreading this for?

Uummmm....its disgusting

 

[mnb089mnb]

It could not be more facile. If you have the ability to control the situation then you control it, you don't just let everyone inside flee and hope none of the terrorists escaped with them. You think when the authorities got onto the scene they just patched people up and let them go? Of course they didn't. Everyone trying to leave would have been checked thoroughly. The choice for Syrians (who are a minority of the "refugees") is not one between first world Europe and a fire-fight with ISIS. We have the resources to control borders and set up refugee centres inside Syria, so we should do. We should also go after the traffickers, which would help stop the drownings, which was the original issue, wasn't it? Everyone seems to have forgotten that now that Merkunt has flung the doors open...

Scant evidence, but better than nothing.

Of course, it's facile. I would imagine most of this thread is facile. None of us are experts and the "migrant crisis" and these Paris attacks are very complex issues.

I also doubt very much that everyone leaving would have been checked thoroughly. It would have been almost impossible.

 

[mnb089mnb]

Uummmm....its disgusting

Wouldn't that be a reason not to share it?

Have you verified it? Where's it from?

 

[mnb089mnb]

Also, it's "He should be hanged", not "He should be hung." Use the correct terminology. We're not savages. Well, we might be if we're talking about introducing the death penalty for people who say things we don't like.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Of course, it's facile. I would imagine most of this thread is facile. None of us are experts and the "migrant crisis" and these Paris attacks are very complex issues.

I also doubt very much that everyone leaving would have been checked thoroughly. It would have been almost impossible.

The point is that if you could do it, you would do, which is where the analogy breaks down. I wasn't attacking you for saying it, it just struck me that people praising it as genius were being a bit silly.

 

[mnb089mnb]

The point is that if you could do it, you would do, which is where the analogy breaks down. I wasn't attacking you for saying it, it just struck me that people praising it as genius were being a bit silly.

No. The point is that you said that everyone leaving would have been checked thoroughly. They weren't, were they?

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

No. The point is that you said that everyone leaving would have been checked thoroughly. They weren't, were they?

Were possible? Yeah, I'm sure they were. If not, that's a stupid decision.

 

[Christian Slater]

Unless we can properly look after them and integrate them into society, we shouldn't accept them.

The idea that they are going to willingly go back to Syria which lies in ruin once the war is over is truly laughable, why the fuck would they? Would you?

I think we can look after them, integrating is a more complex issue that entails too many factors to generalise. Ultimately, I don't believe these factors are anywhere near enough justification for refusing asylum and condemning people to death.

 

[Bobbin']

'Algerian arrested' over alleged Paris warning
Posted at14:35


An Algerian asylum seeker has been arrested in Germany after allegedly warning fellow migrants last week of an imminent attack in Paris, a spokesman for the prosecutor has said.

The Associated Press reports that the unidentified 39-year-old man was detained at a refugee shelter in the western German town of Arnsberg, after two Syrian men contacted police on Saturday.

According to Werner Wolff, a spokesman for the Arnsberg prosecutors office, the witnesses were told by the man that Paris would be subjected to "fear and terror".

If only they had contacted police last week.

 

[Dave-Vale]

Interesting to note that the 'mastermind' behind it is a Belgian citizen, as was his brother who was one of the attackers.

 

[HertsWolf]

Were possible? Yeah, I'm sure they were. If not, that's a stupid decision.

There was mad panic. People were shooting automatic rifles at them. People were dying all around.

Yes, they all left in an orderly fashion in alphabetical order.

They never found out all the people in the carriages on 7/7 and they rarely get the chance to question everyone.

 

[HertsWolf]

Of course, it's facile. I would imagine most of this thread is facile. None of us are experts and the "migrant crisis" and these Paris attacks are very complex issues.
I also doubt very much that everyone leaving would have been checked thoroughly. It would have been almost impossible.

Personally, I think a lot of this thread has been interesting and considered. Plenty of ordinary people giving ordinary people's opinions. I don't agree with some of the comments but it has all been interesting reading.

Your original analogy was good and worked nicely as one. Most analogies break down at some stage of analysis. I guess that a lot of people suddenly saw the comparison of people fleeing from terrorism and the logic or illogic of preventing the innocent from coming out. Or in.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

There was mad panic. People were shooting automatic rifles at them. People were dying all around.

Yes, they all left in an orderly fashion in alphabetical order.

They never found out all the people in the carriages on 7/7 and they rarely get the chance to question everyone.

I said "where possible", obviously I'm not talking about stopping and questioning people as they flee from gunmen, but if you have the capacity to check the survivors before letting them go then clearly you should do. It would be mental not to. I don't know that that's exactly what happened here, but I suspect it was, and I know it was in the immediate aftermath of the Iranian embassy siege, for example.

 

[HertsWolf]

I said "were possible", obviously I'm not talking about stopping and questioning people as they flee from gunmen, but if you have the capacity to check the survivors before letting them go then clearly you should do. It would be mental not to. I don't know that that's exactly what happened here, but I suspect it was, and I know it was in the immediate aftermath of the Iranian embassy siege, for example.

The Iranian embassy siege was very different. A very small number of people were in a building surrounded by police from almost the outset. The entire area was controlled by the police. In Paris, people were escaping from lunatics spraying machine gun bullets around. The area was not well controlled and it was known there were shootings almost simultaneously in other locations very close by. It was absolute chaos.

In any crisis situation, getting people out alive and fast is essential to disperse the crowds that could be attacked. Far from being "mental not to check survivors", in a situation where you do not know the numbers or full capability of the attackers you would not filter or slow the exodus for fear of creating another mass (small or large) of people who would be an obvious target for any surviving or nearby terrorists.

If terrorists melt into the night, that's a big problem (and may well be the case in Paris; we don't know yet) but there may be better opportunities to catch them without risking the lives of possibly hundreds of innocents in the chaos.

The French police stormed the club as soon as they arrived (IIRC). I am sure that in different times, the procedure was to 'secure the fenceline' (as at the Iranian embassy) and then negotiate. I suspect that now the belief is that IS terrorists are just going to massacre as many as possible so there's nothing to be gained from waiting a moment longer than necessary.

Although I am not normally one to worry, there are certain situations (big crowds, poor security, not easy to exit in a hurry) where I am more anxious to be than others..notably cross-channel ferries (in particular), some shopping malls, big nightclubs, big station concourses. Worrying times.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

All you're doing is further illustrating why the analogy doesn't work. Besides, I said "where possible" and "if you have the capacity".

 

[HertsWolf]

All you're doing is further illustrating why the analogy doesn't work. Besides, I said "where possible" and "if you have the capacity".

Umm, just because you say so, doesn't actually mean it is so. In fact, I wasn't even considering the analogy, just making some observations. Keep up.

 

[silkyman]

I think you're overthinking it a bit EG.

Should we let people flee and run the risk that one of the people trying to harm them gets through or do we 'lock the door' and leave them in there with the people looking to do them harm.

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

I think you're overthinking it a bit EG.

Should we let people flee and run the risk that one of the people trying to harm them gets through or do we 'lock the door' and leave them in there with the people looking to do them harm.

This is the dilemma, only takes 2-3 to cause a lot of havoc. I don't think it's a case of 'let them come' or 'let none come', but clearly something is going wrong in terms of the vetting and checking of these people. In part because of the pure sense of crisis when all this started, Europe should not forsake its role in helping people who are fleeing violence and war.

Post WW2 there were many German refugees moving across Europe, the Denazification camps proved very succesful in rooting out war criminals and active participants in atrocities. We can surely do better than we are doing at the moment.

 

[Womble98]

I think we can look after them, integrating is a more complex issue that entails too many factors to generalise. Ultimately, I don't believe these factors are anywhere near enough justification for refusing asylum and condemning people to death.

Why polarise it? It isn't a case of us accepting them into the UK or them dying, if it was, I don't think anyone would be able to object. We should instead look after them in Syria, in Lebanon, in Turkey so that they can easily return.
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