Attacks in Paris + Belgium

[silkyman]

No. They are all fucking bollocks with fuck all base in reality.

 

[Womble98]

https://twitter.com/Ehzan/status/713755724892008452

Anti-Ahmadiyya group congratulates Muslims for the murder of Asad Shah. This is a group with offices and educational facilitates in the UK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khatme_Nubuwwat_Academy

English translation is "According to Reports claimant of False Prophethood Preacher Asad Shah has been killed".

How the fuck is this group allowed to continue without having its leadership arrested for inciting religious hatred? They are literally celebrating the death of this man.

 

[silkyman]

Yay. Religion

 

[silkyman]

That is fucking shocking though. They arrested the 'PR' dick the other day. That should clearly be an offence.

 

[Womble98]

The silence of the left and of those of you who describe themselves as progressive is frankly damning. If this had been the other way around you would have been so loud in your condemnation, if a British white man had stabbed a Muslim to dead you would be screaming from the roof tops about racial and religious hatred, about the oppression of the Muslim people of Britain, and about the west's evil.

A man in 21st century Britain, 2016, has been murdered because of his religious views. Where is your outrage that this has happened?

It doesn't exist, because you are spineless at the core.

 

[silkyman]

Pardon?

 

[Womble98]

Pardon?

That isn't directed at you, it is directed at the likes of Aber gas and Ian_Wrexham who are on here to comment whenever we have done something, whenever there is racial hatred, whenever something happens which suits their agenda, yet when it doesn't, they along with the majority of those who hold the same view points are silent.

 

[mnb089mnb]

That isn't directed at you, it is directed at the likes of Aber gas and Ian_Wrexham who are on here to comment whenever we have done something, whenever there is racial hatred, whenever something happens which suits their agenda, yet when it doesn't, they along with the majority of those who hold the same view points are silent.

There are hundreds of left wing SJWs and rad fems who haven't signed up to 1FF to condemn the killing.

Says it all IMO.

 

[Womble98]

There are hundreds of left wing SJWs and rad fems who haven't signed up to 1FF to condemn the killing.

Says it all IMO.

Or who have been silent on twitter, and on social media. I follow more than enough. If they gave a damn they would have posted the usual statement they make whenever there is a racial hate crime.

 

[Aber gas]

That isn't directed at you, it is directed at the likes of Aber gas and Ian_Wrexham who are on here to comment whenever we have done something, whenever there is racial hatred, whenever something happens which suits their agenda, yet when it doesn't, they along with the majority of those who hold the same view points are silent.

I'm not sure what you want me to say. I don't defend religious extremists and never have. Who do mean when you say "we"?

 

[Womble98]

I'm not sure what you want me to say. I don't defend religious extremists and never have. Who do mean when you say "we"?

My anger is probably misplaced at people on here, but I don't think you can deny that the left as a whole has a problem with failing to condemn and actively turning a blind eye to certain acts of violence/hatred yet trumpeting others (perpetrated by a dominant group).

As for "we", I mean the West generally.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

The silence of the left and of those of you who describe themselves as progressive is frankly damning. If this had been the other way around you would have been so loud in your condemnation, if a British white man had stabbed a Muslim to dead you would be screaming from the roof tops about racial and religious hatred, about the oppression of the Muslim people of Britain, and about the west's evil.

A man in 21st century Britain, 2016, has been murdered because of his religious views. Where is your outrage that this has happened?

It doesn't exist, because you are spineless at the core.

That is a very weird post. I mean, yeah, I've not gone on here angrily denouncing his killers, but nor did I go on here to denounce the Belgian bombers, Adam Johnson - or indeed the killers of Jalal Uddin; a man who was murdered little over a month ago in Rochdale because of his religious views (while we're doing a will-you-condemnathon, can I see the receipts for your "outrage" at that? ta).

I dunno, I guess I find that sort of public-facing outrage about something that everyone agrees is bad to be quite performative and rarely particularly useful. I don't know that much about Ahmadiyya - I think this week was the first time I became aware of it. So I'm not that sure what level of violence Ahmadis face in the UK. So yeah, this story is tremendously sad and if there are organisations peddling sectarian hatred in the UK, they should be shut down.

If your demands for "outrage" essentially amounts to a call to demonise Muslims generally because of an awful sectarian murder (and honestly, I'm having trouble reading them in any other way) then, quite apart from anything else, sparking an Islamophobic backlash is going to make Ahmadis (and other Muslims) less safe, not more.

 

[Womble98]

That is a very weird post. I mean, yeah, I've not gone on here angrily denouncing his killers, but nor did I go on here to denounce the Belgian bombers, Adam Johnson - or indeed the killers of Jalal Uddin; a man who was murdered little over a month ago in Rochdale because of his religious views (while we're doing a will-you-condemnathon, can I see the receipts for your "outrage" at that? ta).

I dunno, I guess I find that sort of public-facing outrage about something that everyone agrees is bad to be quite performative and rarely particularly useful. I don't know that much about Ahmadiyya - I think this week was the first time I became aware of it. So I'm not that sure what level of violence Ahmadis face in the UK. So yeah, this story is tremendously sad and if there are organisations peddling sectarian hatred in the UK, they should be shut down.

If your demands for "outrage" essentially amount to a call to demonise Muslims generally because of an awful sectarian murder (and honestly, I'm having trouble reading them in any other way) then, quite apart from anything else, sparking an Islamophobic backlash is going to make Ahmadis (and other Muslims) less safe, not more.

Jalal Uddin isn't a case I was aware of, and there doesn't seem to be much publication of what exactly happened.

As I previously said, my outrage at posters on here was more directed at the wider "left" who many of you would identify with. Ahmadi's face tremendous amounts of hate in the UK. In the 2010 elections, one candidate was prevented from speaking in Tooting because he was an Ahmadi. Abroad, they are massacred.

My calls for outrage aren't a call to demonise Muslims, they are a call for everyone, the left and the right, Muslim's and non Muslims, Christians, Jews, whoever, to stand up and say that the murder of someone due to their religious beliefs is not acceptable, and anyone who advocates that hate based on religious belief needs to be shunned, with it made clear that their hatred will not be tolerated.

 

[Womble98]

https://twitter.com/bitterarab/status/714114849714872320

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Pretty confident that nobody on here condones murder...

maybe time to go to bed?

 

[Womble98]

Pretty confident that nobody on here condones murder...

maybe time to go to bed?

That isn't what I said. When you stand up and condemn violence on one side but ignore violence on the other, you are doing something wrong. It is the same with the Israel/Palestine conflict. Those who ignore Israeli violence and condemn Palestinian violence and vice versa are morally bankrupt.

 

[blade1889]

I dont understand the argument here...

I'm pretty sure no one here would condone or not condemn what these people have done. People do oppose when these hate crimes are linked to everyone of the murderers religion. The two are very different...

 

[Womble98]

I dont understand the argument here...

I'm pretty sure no one here would condone or not condemn what these people have done. People do oppose when these hate crimes are linked to everyone of the murderers religion. The two are very different...

The tweet I posted sums up one of the main problems. If it had been a non-Muslim who had done it, the vocal outcry would be massive. People are willing to accept it a lot more when it is inter-Muslim violence. That is a problem is it not?

 

[blade1889]

The tweet I posted sums up one of the main problems. If it had been a non-Muslim who had done it, the vocal outcry would be massive. People are willing to accept it a lot more when it is inter-Muslim violence. That is a problem is it not?

Your tweet is about muslim outcry (condemning non-Muslim crimes more than those committed by Muslims) not 'lefty' outcry so I dont think it sums up 'lefties' accepting Muslim crimes more than non-muslim at all.

I have to be honest all I have seen is condemning of murder from all sides (bar a few other Islamic extremists). I also have no knowledge of non-Muslims committing similar acts in Europe to measure outcry responses against. I suspect it would be equal but without the 'lefties' having to also argue that the acts aren't representative of all Muslims at the same time...which I think you seem to be confusing with excusing the terrorism.

 

[An Ancient Oak Tree]

What would you like them to do? Maybe it's not so much about acceptance, but about understanding. Most of the population don't know their Sunnis from their Sunny D, so internecine violence isn't something they can offer much of a debate upon. With regards to Muslims not speaking up, I wouldn't know, for I haven't been following the case too well. I will say though that I feel it unlikely to be reported (see the oft-repeated 'oh no Muslims ever condem this atrocity they must be with the enemy' headline)

 

[Womble98]

Your tweet is about muslim outcry not 'lefty' outcry so I dont think it sums up 'lefties' accepting Muslim crimes more than non-muslim at all.

I have to be honest all I have seen is condemning of murder from all sides (bar a few other Islamic extremists). I also have no knowledge of non-Muslims committing similar acts in Europe to measure outcry responses against. I suspect it would be equal but without the 'lefties' having to also argue that the acts aren't representative of all Muslims at the same time.

Look at Israel/Palestine. Each Palestine death gets huge coverage. Read about it, look at news articles and crucially news headlines. Many where Palestinians were the attackers were titled "Palestinian shot dead". There have been something like 40 Israeli deaths since October, and upwards of 60 attacks. The left (and the right, but in this case the left) is extremely selective in which cases of oppression/injustice it focuses on. When its suits their agenda it either ignores or promotes them.

What would you like them to do? Maybe it's not so much about acceptance, but about understanding. Most of the population don't know their Sunnis from their Sunny D, so internecine violence isn't something they can offer much of a debate upon. With regards to Muslims not speaking up, I wouldn't know, for I haven't been following the case too well. I will say though that I feel it unlikely to be reported (see the oft-repeated 'oh no Muslims ever condem this atrocity they must be with the enemy' headline)

I'm not asking random man in his van to start banging on about it. But voices in the media, political figures, religious and secular leaders and anyone whose word has any weight should work together to promote free expression of ideas (as long as they do not incite violence).
British democracy would be far stronger if we did something like that.

Nice to have another voice in this thread, welcome to the forum.

 

[TheMinsterman]

I'd like to formally declare that I condemn the intra-Muslim murder of this individual in Scotland and the subsequent support it received from people intent on their obliteration.

Yours sincerely,
TM

 

[Womble98]

I'd like to formally declare that I condemn the intra-Muslim murder of this individual in Scotland and the subsequent support it received from people intent on their obliteration.

Yours sincerely,
TM

If you had read my earlier posts you would've seen that I wasn't meaning to demand all 1ff forum users condemn it. I was referring to the left as a more general group.

 

[An Ancient Oak Tree]

I'd like to formally declare that I condemn the intra-Muslim murder of this individual in Scotland and the subsequent support it received from people intent on their obliteration.

Yours sincerely,
TM

But, you aren't a Muslim (I assume). I do feel the whole condemning element must start at home, really. So, as a black man, I condemn the attacks in Nigeria the other day. As a Muslim I also condemn the attacks in Belgian not so long ago. And, finally, as a bouncy castle, I condemn the tragic death of a child yesterday. I do think that, as white men (which I do believe the majority of this forum are, no?) you should apologise for the evils of imperialism and global capital.

 

[Womble98]

But, you aren't a Muslim (I assume). I do feel the whole condemning element must start at home, really. So, as a black man, I condemn the attacks in Nigeria the other day. As a Muslim I also condemn the attacks in Belgian not so long ago. And, finally, as a bouncy castle, I condemn the tragic death of a child yesterday. I do think that, as white men (which I do believe the majority of this forum are, no?) you should apologise for the evils of imperialism and global capital.

I didn't say anything about apologising for it. If we as a country, regardless of race, regardless of religion or political affiliation stood up for the right for people to freely express themselves, the UK would be a better place. I don't think you disagree with that, right?

 

[Jockney]

Look at Israel/Palestine. Each Palestine death gets huge coverage. Read about it, look at news articles and crucially news headlines. Many where Palestinians were the attackers were titled "Palestinian shot dead". There have been something like 40 Israeli deaths since October, and upwards of 60 attacks. The left (and the right, but in this case the left) is extremely selective in which cases of oppression/injustice it focuses on. When its suits their agenda it either ignores or promotes them.

These false equivalences are infuriating. State-sanctioned murder and a culture of oppression backed by the most powerful nations of earth is going to elicit more anger from the left. It should elicit more anger from everyone. Israel is the aggressor.

I'm not asking random man in his van to start banging on about it. But voices in the media, political figures, religious and secular leaders and anyone whose word has any weight should work together to promote free expression of ideas (as long as they do not incite violence).
British democracy would be far stronger if we did something like that.

Nice to have another voice in this thread, welcome to the forum.

It seems like you have been doing just that on this thread for the last two pages.

Are you having some sort of breakdown?

 

[sl1k]

Death to the non-lefty infidels

 

[An Ancient Oak Tree]

I didn't say anything about apologising for it. If we as a country, regardless of race, regardless of religion or political affiliation stood up for the right for people to freely express themselves, the UK would be a better place. I don't think you disagree with that, right?

I think it's a man of plenty, a man who has the world. A man. A white man in a rich country, who claims language is a leveler and free and equal and objective. Words keep the black man down as surely as the whip did then, and the dollar does now.

 

[TheMinsterman]

But, you aren't a Muslim (I assume). I do feel the whole condemning element must start at home, really. So, as a black man, I condemn the attacks in Nigeria the other day. As a Muslim I also condemn the attacks in Belgian not so long ago. And, finally, as a bouncy castle, I condemn the tragic death of a child yesterday. I do think that, as white men (which I do believe the majority of this forum are, no?) you should apologise for the evils of imperialism and global capital.

I personally identify as an attack helicopter so I probably have a few apologies to make...

 

[Womble98]

These false equivalences are infuriating. State-sanctioned murder and a culture of oppression backed by the most powerful nations of earth is going to elicit more anger from the left. It should elicit more anger from everyone. Israel is the aggressor.



It seems like you have been doing just that on this thread for the last two pages.

Are you having some sort of breakdown?

If you want peace you need to equally apply the law to both sides. As I say for the 5th? time, my earlier posts were misguided, and were more targeted at the left generally than posters here.

Death to the non-lefty infidels

Death to no one. Just a united agreement that everyone should be free to speak as long as they do not call for violence.

I think it's a man of plenty, a man who has the world. A man. A white man in a rich country, who claims language is a leveler and free and equal and objective. Words keep the black man down as surely as the whip did then, and the dollar does now.

Maybe when education isn't fairly distributed, but if we were to educate everyone equally regardless of colour, regardless of class, language and words would be the greatest leveller of all. It was ideas emerging from the Enlightenment that brought about the abolition of slavery, the emancipation of women, the political emancipation of people throughout Europe.