Attacks in Paris + Belgium

[TheMinsterman]

Right that's fucking it. There's children been killed here ffs.

It's time to FIGHT BACK against these fucking ISIS terrorists, Nazi Germany wasn't defeated with hastags and flowers.

No it was defeated with millions of casualties on both sides, countless civilians killed, people forced to the front to die en masse.

ISIS and the Nazi's are two completely separate ball games, one was an actual state for one.

 

[Aber gas]

I'd also like to point out that our lads weren't equipped with hashtags back then and while there may well have been flowers they were only available in black and white.

 

[Max]

Right that's fucking it. There's children been killed here ffs.

It's time to FIGHT BACK against these fucking ISIS terrorists, Nazi Germany wasn't defeated with hastags and flowers.

So ... what do you suggest?

 

[Stevencc]

Those that fought in WW2 (on our side) did so with the intention of 1) making sure we didn't have to learn German (fick dass) and 2) ensuring that we could use the F word and the C word (specifically) without ever worrying about it being horribly twisted into something else entirely.

It's interesting to keep this in mind when considering the current climate of the forum with regards to CENSORSHIP.

Very interesting.

 

[Ciderhead]

Those that fought in WW2 (on our side) did so with the intention of 1) making sure we didn't have to learn German (fick dass) and 2) ensuring that we could use the F word and the C word (specifically) without ever worrying about it being horribly twisted into something else entirely.

It's interesting to keep this in mind when considering the current climate of the forum with regards to CENSORSHIP.

Very interesting.

There are plus points. The discovery of the phrase "clusterSHAG" for one. Definitely going to be added to my regular lexicon

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking 16m16 minutes ago
A man and a woman are arrested in Nice in connection with Bastille Day lorry attack, sources say

 

[Carver]

So ... what do you suggest?

Nato should send it's army into Syria and Iraq to get rid of ISIS's leaders who are hiding there, airstrikes can only do so much.

Once they're rid of then the radicalising of people via the internet will hopefully stop in western countries like France etc.

 

[Alty]

Nato should send it's army into Syria and Iraq to get rid of ISIS's leaders who are hiding there, airstrikes can only do so much.

Once they're rid of then the radicalising of people via the internet will hopefully stop in western countries like France etc.

Bit naive is that. There'd certainly be unintended consequences.

At the risk of giving my detractors on here more ammunition, I think there was something in Michael Portillo's recent comments about colonialism (as opposed to imperialism) having some benign consequences, but we (by which primarily we mean the US) continually refuse to accept this and learn the lessons. If you are convinced a country (in this case an unrecognised state, but you get my point) is a grave danger to its own people and its neighbours, you're probably better committing for the long term and actually administering the country in a sort of paternalistic way. It'll gradually ensure stability and improved living standards.

Going in hard, getting the bad guys out of power and installing a Karzai or Maliki who are seen as puppets just doesn't work. Same in Libya. Using firepower alone does not stabilise these places in the long term.

Depressingly I fear we may be best off just staying out of 90% of conflicts because there are bad people on all sides.

 

[Ciderhead]

Nato should send it's army into Syria and Iraq to get rid of ISIS's leaders who are hiding there, airstrikes can only do so much.

Once they're rid of then the radicalising of people via the internet will hopefully stop in western countries like France etc.

It's not as simple as one leader or one group. You can't bomb an ideology.

You kill Al-Baghdadi, other senior figures, yeah you might wipe out IS. But they're just the latest facade. Another group will spring up in their wake, as they did with Al-Qaeda before them, likely even more extreme.

You go in with another invasion: US, Western troops on the ground; you just enhance their narrative of the West vs Islam, another crusade attempting to wipe out their religion, their way of life. That will inspire far more followers, far greater radicalisation of people over the internet leading to more attacks not less.

And a large amount of these attacks won't be centrally organised by IS. They'll be splintered cells or home-grown, influenced by the message IS puts out but lone wolf attacks at heart.

It's essentially got to be a propaganda war, really. Sending the message that these people do not represent Islam, that the West isn't fundamentally opposed to Islam. Prevention over cure. Deradicalising before people can be radicalised. Presenting a united front in the muslim world of all the nations in the region, Sunni and Shia alike. Obviously not that simple in practice, though

Of course you'd like to see IS wiped out, Al-Baghdadi and other senior figures dead. But that isn't a solution in itself. It's like the killing of Osama Bin Laden: meaningless really, just a morale boost for US citizens. And if you achieve it by large scale Western forces on the ground invading middle-eastern territory, that will only exacerbate the problem.

 

[Carver]

Why do they attack the West? We never done nothing to them.

 

[Luke_1884]

Nato should send it's army into Syria and Iraq to get rid of ISIS's leaders who are hiding there, airstrikes can only do so much.

You'd be surprised.

The gameplan at the moment, especially in Iraq, is very successful. Iraq is more straight forward with the Iraqi army advancing quite a bit recently (see Fallujah) and with the Iraqi Kurds up north waiting to advance.
Syria is not so simple due to the massive power vacuum's being left from the Assad/Rebels conflict. Add Russia to the equation and the Syrian Kurds in the north along with ISIS and you have one pretty messed up region.
When ISIS lose Mosul they are expected to drop back in Syria, probably Al Raqqah, pretty quickly. That's when challenges will become apparent to the Western forces.

 

[Stevencc]

Why do they attack the West? We never done nothing to them.

When they attack the west they aren't attacking individual westerners or even governments they are attacking an entire society that they deem as being completely incompatible with the worldview they've interpreted from a holy book.

The majority of suicide attacks seem to occur in the middle east itself though, someone else will be better off explaining why.

 

[Carver]

When they attack the west they aren't attacking individual westerners or even governments they are attacking an entire society that they deem as being completely incompatible with the worldview they've interpreted from a holy book.

The majority of suicide attacks seem to occur in the middle east itself though, someone else will be better off explaining why.

So it's the worldview that is the problem? How do we sort that out?

 

[Pagnell]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36832909

An axe attack on a German train by a 17 year old Afghan refugee. A miracle no one was killed but, with some people in a critical condition, there is nothing to say that will remain the case. F***ing madness.

 

[Craig]

Saw it last night but didn't want to post in here as there was no clear link but now turns out an IS flag was found in his apartment.

 

[silkyman]

The Twitter racists like Katie Hopkins are fapping themselves raw because finally one of these attacks was perpetrated by a recent migrant, not a local boy.

 

[NorfolkWomble]

You'd be surprised.

The gameplan at the moment, especially in Iraq, is very successful. Iraq is more straight forward with the Iraqi army advancing quite a bit recently (see Fallujah) and with the Iraqi Kurds up north waiting to advance.
Syria is not so simple due to the massive power vacuum's being left from the Assad/Rebels conflict. Add Russia to the equation and the Syrian Kurds in the north along with ISIS and you have one pretty messed up region.
When ISIS lose Mosul they are expected to drop back in Syria, probably Al Raqqah, pretty quickly. That's when challenges will become apparent to the Western forces.

Pretty much spot on. Syria conflict looks like it will drag on and on, whereas Iraq are making some gains. What happens when Assad/Kurds are left will be interesting. Will Assad allow the Kurds to have their own region? Doubtful.

 

[.V.]

Has there been any concrete evidence to suggest the Nice attack was fundamentalist Islamic terrorism? Most things I've read suggest he was far from devout.

 

[NorfolkWomble]

Has there been any concrete evidence to suggest the Nice attack was fundamentalist Islamic terrorism? Most things I've read suggest he was far from devout.

His motive was Islamic fundamentalism, he wasn't a particularly devout Muslim but that doesn't mean the reason for his attack was not fundamentalist Islam. Four Lions kinda sums this up, the devout brother is the one who is arrested whereas the less devout one goes and blows himself up.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36832909

An axe attack on a German train by a 17 year old Afghan refugee. A miracle no one was killed but, with some people in a critical condition, there is nothing to say that will remain the case. F***ing madness.

It's a proper head case that somebody could successfully flee from trouble in Afghanistan into Germany, and then be so angry with his new home so as to do something like that. Unless it was premeditated and was the reason for 'fleeing', but he was 17 and younger when he moved, I struggle to believe someone that young could plan something like that.

Mind boggling.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

If you've been indoctrinated from birth to believe that killing the enemies of Islam will result in you being taken to paradise to experience total bliss for eternity then it's not that surprising that a minority will actually go through with it.

 

[silkyman]

And now Munich...

 

[G-Dragon]

And now Munich...

No one saw that coming...
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36870874

 

[G-Dragon]

 

[Super_horns]

Are we just lucky or have very good intelligence to counter any potential threats because we seem to have avoided such terror attacks (presuming this is the case here) in recent years thankfully

Touch wood that stays the same of course.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

The police in Germany are reporting there are "several deaths". I don't think it's been confirmed to be a terrorist attack yet though.

Are we just lucky or have very good intelligence to counter any potential threats because we seem to have avoided such terror attacks (presuming this is the case here) in recent years thankfully

Touch wood that stays the same of course.

That, and it's much easier to move weapons into and around continental Europe.

 

[MJA]

Are we just lucky or have very good intelligence to counter any potential threats because we seem to have avoided such terror attacks (presuming this is the case here) in recent years thankfully

Touch wood that stays the same of course.

I am sure the UK is seen as highly a target as the US by these nutcases so surely the fact that we have not been attacked must be in someway down to our intelligence agencies winning the fight currently. I also wonder whether us being an island with strict checks on imports is affecting their ability to bring across the necessary weapons to cause the sort of destruction we are seeing in mainland Europe.

I genuinely believe that there are dangerous people and so called 'terror cells' already operating amongst us and all we can do is hope that those out there protecting us are on top of things at all times

 

[Stevencc]

Are we just lucky or have very good intelligence to counter any potential threats because we seem to have avoided such terror attacks (presuming this is the case here) in recent years thankfully

Touch wood that stays the same of course.

I do wonder about this. We must either be a) very well prepared or b) not that a big a fish in terms of making a big statement with an attack right now.

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

Scary times, it's only a matter of time before we see paramilitary organisations to 'protect the community' surface across Europe.

 

[Alty]

Scary times, it's only a matter of time before we see paramilitary organisations to 'protect the community' surface across Europe.

You'd need multiple attacks in one city before people were willing to risk imprisonment for that, surely?