Attacks in Paris + Belgium

[spireite]

Wow okay. Just think who this group includes. I have many friends here and can think of footballers/sportsmen/politicians who you'd start keeping tabs on and god knows what else.

Are they typically from poor/difficult backgrounds though, would you say? it would be sensible to narrow it down as much as possible based on those attacks already committed probably

 

[Tilbury]

Are they typically from poor/difficult backgrounds though, would you say? it would be sensible to narrow it down as much as possible based on those attacks already committed probably

A lot are/were. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_Muslims#Sport
You can tell Amir Khan he's not allowed to move freely any more.

 

[silkyman]

Are they typically from poor/difficult backgrounds though, would you say? it would be sensible to narrow it down as much as possible based on those attacks already committed probably

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings#Profiles

A teaching mentor, a guy who worked in his mum and dads chippie. The only non British born was Jamaican.

Lots of targets there.

 

[Womble98]

Home grown terrorism is the result of allowing large groups of people to immigrate without integrating. Molenbeek where some of the Paris attackers came from is indicative of this. Something like 90% immigrants, 40% unemployment. Having a strict migration policy stops homegrown terror.

The lack of integration is part the fault of the government's which underfunded public services in these areas but the fault mainly rests with the immigrants who do not want to integrate.

 

[silkyman]

Funny that silkyman is the only one who has said anything about skin colour or race.

As long as we allow Saudi Arabia to export and finance its hateful Wahhabism in our countries this will happen over and over again. Foreign funding of religious institutions should be banned.

No I'm not. I doubt anyone talking about immigrants in this thread are talking about Australians. I'm just being a bit more blunt to show it up for what it is.

 

[silkyman]

Home grown terrorism is the result of allowing large groups of people to immigrate without integrating. Molenbeek where some of the Paris attackers came from is indicative of this. Something like 90% immigrants, 40% unemployment. Having a strict migration policy stops homegrown terror.

The lack of integration is part the fault of the government's which underfunded public services in these areas but the fault mainly rests with the immigrants who do not want to integrate.

A bit late now. If they were born here you need to be having a migration policy a generation ago designed to prevent issues for today. Stop migrants because their kids might one day but into a political and religious belief that isn't yet prevalent.

 

[spireite]

A lot are/were. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_Muslims#Sport
You can tell Amir Khan he's not allowed to move freely any more.

Not really very helpful to exaggerate so much

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings#Profiles

A teaching mentor, a guy who worked in his mum and dads chippie. The only non British born was Jamaican.

Lots of targets there.

A learning teaching mentor at 30? A bloke working in his mums chippy? Did they all regularly attend mosques known to be linked to objectional teachings and anti-western agenda? They'd all the on the watch

 

[Aber gas]

Home grown terrorism is the result of allowing large groups of people to immigrate without integrating. Molenbeek where some of the Paris attackers came from is indicative of this. Something like 90% immigrants, 40% unemployment. Having a strict migration policy stops homegrown terror.

The lack of integration is part the fault of the government's which underfunded public services in these areas but the fault mainly rests with the immigrants who do not want to integrate.

At what point do people cease to be immigrants ?

 

[Womble98]

No I'm not. I doubt anyone talking about immigrants in this thread are talking about Australians. I'm just being a bit more blunt to show it up for what it is.

Well it isn't Australians blowing us up is it........ Lets face it for what it is, Muslim extremists who are almost all from Arab and Middle-Eastern backgrounds blowing themselves up in the countries that have allowed them in. Expressing outrage at this isn't saying "get rid of the darkies", its saying we need to stop this, and it is this group doing this, and therefore action against this part of society is sanctionable.

 

[spireite]

At what point do people cease to be immigrants ?

When they integrate, like fish and chips, go to football, stop reading that silly book and get a few dope tats. I think that would be a fair measuring stick

 

[Aber gas]

A bit late now. If they were born here you need to be having a migration policy a generation ago designed to prevent issues for today. Stop migrants because their kids might one day but into a political and religious belief that isn't yet prevalent.

It doesn't make a lot of sense when you really think about it

 

[Tilbury]

Not really very helpful to exaggerate so much

You said 'most definitely' in response to British people who fit your category. I'm not exaggerating, just taking everything you say literally. Hopefully it'll challenge you to understand that not every Muslim of Asian descent is going to be a threat, or in need of surveillance on their movements.

 

[Aber gas]

When they integrate, like fish and chips, go to football, stop reading that silly book and get a few dope tats. I think that would be a fair measuring stick

Well my grandfather despised fish and chips, inexplicably contininued to read the Old Testament and I wouldn't call his tatts "dope. Put me on a list!

 

[spireite]

You said 'most definitely' in response to British people who fit your category. I'm not exaggerating, just taking everything you say literally. Hopefully it'll challenge you to understand that not every Muslim of Asian descent is going to be a threat, or in need of surveillance on their movements.

I never said they were to be fair, I advocated profiling as narrowly as feasibly possible, if you don't start at least trying to identiffy potential threats... well.... I hope you're happy to see one of these every month or so. Something has to be done and we have to start somewhere. I almost guarantee national security agencies are doing exactly what I've said and have been doing for years. Granted attacks are still happening, but we have no way of knowing how many have been stopped.

 

[Saddlerrad]

Just a quick reminder - any racism is an instant ban from the site - with this being the prior warning.

Constructive discussion and debate is muchly welcomed.

Please report any obvious racism, including innuendo.

Thanks.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

just a reminder that none of the paris terrorists were syrian

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

Home grown terrorism is the result of allowing large groups of people to immigrate without integrating. Molenbeek where some of the Paris attackers came from is indicative of this. Something like 90% immigrants, 40% unemployment. Having a strict migration policy stops homegrown terror.

citation needed

 

[Womble98]

citation needed

Which bit for?

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

i do wonder the reasons behind homegrown terrorism, it has gotta be more than just them refusing to integrate as muslims are just one small part of all the many waves of immigration this country has been subjected to/blessed with. could be argued that muslim terrorism is just a unique result of a lack of integration but i dunno. global jihadism has became so widespread its difficult to find a country with a large number of muslims to have not suffered muslim terrorism to compare and contrast with

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

Which bit for?

Every one of those three statements please.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

i do wonder the reasons behind homegrown terrorism, it has gotta be more than just them refusing to integrate as muslims are just one small part of all the many waves of immigration this country has been subjected to/blessed with. could be argued that muslim terrorism is just a unique result of a lack of integration but i dunno. global jihadism has became so widespread its difficult to find a country with a large number of muslims to have not suffered muslim terrorism to compare and contrast with

Loads of IRA members were born and grew up in England. You probably wouldn't have said that they were driven to Irish republicanism by a lack of integration, but rather that the UK government was in some way against them, their families and the communities they consider themselves to belong to.

Perhaps it's easier to empathise with the sense of alienation felt by a lot of Irish people in the UK in the twentieth century (what with both historical distance and geographical closeness) that drove a tiny minority into joining republican paramilitaries, than it is to grasp potentially similar alienation felt by some muslim people in 21st century Europe.

(obviously absolute support/solidarity for anyone civillians hurt by any form of terrorism - whether state, paramilitary or jihadi violence)

 

[Womble98]

Home grown terrorism is the result of allowing large groups of people to immigrate without integrating . Molenbeek where some of the Paris attackers came from is indicative of this (1). Something like 90% immigrants, 40% unemployment (2). Having a strict migration policy stops homegrown terror.

citation needed

(1) It has been the centre of recent Jihadist plots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sint-Jans-Molenbeek#Muslim_community
(2) 39.3% of it's residents are Morrocan muslims. I couldn't find exact data on the number of immigrants in total but it's lower district is described as predominantly made up of immigrants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sint-Jans-Molenbeek#Muslim_community
As for unemployment, this guardian article states in the 40% http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...eek-jihadi-isis-belgian-paris-attacks-belgium

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

i don't think irish terrorism and muslim terrorism are that comparable. irish and palestinian sure, islamist terrorism is more comparable to communist i'd argue. the first are seeking to rectify one particular ill the second i trying to change the world. i'm not sure a sense of alienation explains it either, becoming more and more convinced it is entirely to do with events overseas impacting on and shaping the perception towards muslims here and in turn shaping a minority of muslims relationship with the west. kinda bouncing off each other

 

[Womble98]

i do wonder the reasons behind homegrown terrorism, it has gotta be more than just them refusing to integrate as muslims are just one small part of all the many waves of immigration this country has been subjected to/blessed with. could be argued that muslim terrorism is just a unique result of a lack of integration but i dunno. global jihadism has became so widespread its difficult to find a country with a large number of muslims to have not suffered muslim terrorism to compare and contrast with

Loads of IRA members were born and grew up in England. You probably wouldn't have said that they were driven to Irish republicanism by a lack of integration, but rather that the UK government was in some way against them, their families and the communities they consider themselves to belong to.

Perhaps it's easier to empathise with the sense of alienation felt by a lot of Irish people in the UK in the twentieth century (what with both historical distance and geographical closeness) that drove a tiny minority into joining republican paramilitaries, than it is to grasp potentially similar alienation felt by some muslim people in 21st century Europe.

(obviously absolute support/solidarity for anyone civillians hurt by any form of terrorism - whether state, paramilitary or jihadi violence)

I don't understand why neither of you take into account Islamic ideology as a key motive for terror attacks. You don't martyr yourself shouting "Allah Akbar" unless you believe that you are doing God's will. This isn't some kind of scare tactic or attempt to frame innocent Muslims, they are very much Muslim also and they are doing what they are doing because there is a sizeable minority which shares their view.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

we've had this conversation before, people have killed themselves in service of non-religious goals

 

[Womble98]

we've had this conversation before, people have killed themselves in service of non-religious goals

But they didn't shout God is great or declare themselves a shahid who was going to paradise did they?

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

But they didn't shout God is great or declare themselves a shahid who was going to paradise did they?

no they probably shouted glory to the motherland or i love marx because they weren't muslim and weren't dying to further a muslim cause. by definition really because we are comparing islamist terror to other forms

 

[Womble98]

http://www.therazor.org/oldroot/Summer02/sbombinterview.htm

 

[silkyman]

Well it isn't Australians blowing us up is it........ Lets face it for what it is, Muslim extremists who are almost all from Arab and Middle-Eastern backgrounds blowing themselves up in the countries that have allowed them in. Expressing outrage at this isn't saying "get rid of the darkies", its saying we need to stop this, and it is this group doing this, and therefore action against this part of society is sanctionable.

Exactly. So it's not just 'me' making it about race.

 

[Womble98]

Exactly. So it's not just 'me' making it about race.

No one else had mentioned race before you. It is course implicitly there: it is implicitly already about race/religion, but your "kick out all the black people" schtick is just the same over and over, fingers in ears.