Ched Evans to sign for Chesterfield

[spireite]

It's probably worth noting that, AFAIK, the club have an agreement in place that if the retrial gives a guilty verdict again, the club will 'review' the signing. Seemingly it hinges on him being proved innocent.

 

[SpireiteDan]

Cannot believe the club even entertained this as an idea let alone go and actually fucking do it.

Those at the top have made some unpopular decisions in the last 12 months or so but this is on another scale altogether, the club really doesn't need the shit that comes with this move.

I've called him all sorts of names in the past and now i'm supposed to stand there and cheer if/when he scores goals?

Fuck right off.

 

[spireite]

Cannot believe the club even entertained this as an idea let alone go and actually fucking do it.

Those at the top have made some unpopular decisions in the last 12 months or so but this is on another scale altogether, the club really doesn't need the shit that comes with this move.

I've called him all sorts of names in the past and now i'm supposed to stand there and cheer if/when he scores goals?

Fuck right off.

To be honest mate with the season I'm expecting, Josef Fritzl could bag for us and I'd cheer...

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

Someone was going to sign him, personally I hope he fails.

I just hope them spirite fans who decide they wont go are allowed to do so and not get swamped in that club propaganda b*llocks that makes them look guilty.

 

[spireite]

Someone was going to sign him, personally I hope he fails.

I just hope them spirits fans who decide they wont go are allowed to do so and not get swamped in that club propaganda b*llocks that makes them look guilty.

Well, I am partial to a whisky

 

[Stagat]

To be honest mate with the season I'm expecting, Josef Fritzl could bag for us and I'd cheer...

You reckon you're coming back to the basement division?

 

[SpireiteDan]

You reckon you're coming back to the basement division?

If it was a choice between League 2 and Ched Evans.

League 2 wins by a long, long way.

 

[Renegade]

Hang on, I made no comment about his character or what he did or didn't do. I simply pointed out that as of this moment in the eyes of the law, he is not guilty of any crime(and the original verdict is irrelevant because it was quashed) and he is free to do as he pleases. I was simply pointing out that the inevitable witch hunt by the media and opposition fans is incorrect and that we should let the courts decide one and for all wether he is guilty of rape or not.

When other players do detestable things that may or may not be worthy of jail-time, there's generally a witch hunt. He may be innocent in the eyes of a jury, but thousands of football fans will see someone who clearly took advantage of an inebriated woman, whilst cheating on his girlfriend at the same time. Simply put, the man is a scumbag and no one should want him playing for their club. He is bad PR for the club, will push away sponsors, will get crucified by other fans during away games. There's no need to get caught up in the semantics of his crime, he's still a c*** and will rouse the ire of opposition fans, I have no issue with this witch hunt. It's not a black and white crime, he's in the dark grey and on the precipice of the black.

 

[Wombletom]

Woah did not see that coming. Don't know what to think about this right now. Prevailing thought is 'hopefully he scores'

Wasn't it him 'scoring' in the first place that got him into the mess he's in now.

 

[NorfolkWomble]

A free and innocent man.
A free and innocent man who awaits trial for rape.
A free and innocent man who last time he faced a jury for the crime he is accused of was convicted
A free and innocent man who spent several years orchestrating a harrassment campaign against his victim*
A free and innocent man who has never, at any point, shown any remorse for taking advantage of someone whose ability to consent was clearly compromised regardless of whether he is proven, beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law, to have committed rape.

* Victim/alleged victim idgaf. I believe her

Lets imagine Ian that you are imprisoned for something you maintain you are not guilty for. What do you do? Do you say "Sorry", and admit guilt, ruining any chance of being redeemed or found innocent? I fucking doubt it.

If the court say he is innocent, her ability to consent was not compromised to a large enough degree to make it rape.

Why do you believe her by the way?

Cannot believe the club even entertained this as an idea let alone go and actually fucking do it.

Those at the top have made some unpopular decisions in the last 12 months or so but this is on another scale altogether, the club really doesn't need the shit that comes with this move.

I've called him all sorts of names in the past and now i'm supposed to stand there and cheer if/when he scores goals?

Fuck right off.

When other players do detestable things that may or may not be worthy of jail-time, there's generally a witch hunt. He may be innocent in the eyes of a jury, but thousands of football fans will see someone who clearly took advantage of an inebriated woman, whilst cheating on his girlfriend at the same time. Simply put, the man is a scumbag and no one should want him playing for their club. He is bad PR for the club, will push away sponsors, will get crucified by other fans during away games. There's no need to get caught up in the semantics of his crime, he's still a c*** and will rouse the ire of opposition fans, I have no issue with this witch hunt. It's not a black and white crime, he's in the dark grey and on the precipice of the black.

He's a prick for having cheated on his GF but how many people have done that? How many on this forum?

I don't understand this at all. If he is found not-guilty, it means that in the eyes of the law and therefore in the eyes of 12 people looking at all the facts etc, he is innocent. The women he had sex with was sober enough to consent.

I don't understand why some people have a problem with that.

 

[spireite]

Wasn't it him 'scoring' in the first place that got him into the mess he's in now.

No that was allegedly raping somebody I think

 

[AtaturkOzgutson]

He's a prick for having cheated on his GF but how many people have done that? How many on this forum?

On this forum? Girlfriends?

 

[AtaturkOzgutson]

There's no need to get caught up in the semantics of his crime, he's still a c*** and will rouse the ire of opposition fans, I have no issue with this witch hunt. It's not a black and white crime, he's in the dark grey and on the precipice of the black.

I think the difference between 'consensual sex between adults' and 'rape' is slightly more pronounced than being just 'the semantics'.

 

[Muzzle]

Am curious as to how this news is going down in Chesterfield

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

Lets imagine Ian that you are imprisoned for something you maintain you are not guilty for. What do you do? Do you say "Sorry", and admit guilt, ruining any chance of being redeemed or found innocent? I fucking doubt it.

If the court say he is innocent, her ability to consent was not compromised to a large enough degree to make it rape.

Why do you believe her by the way?

What do courts actually do? They determine whether the CPS (usually) can prove beyond reasonable doubt that a crime was committed. If they find Ched Evans not guilty, it doesn't mean that her ability to consent was not compromised, but that there's reasonable doubt in the CPS's case.

It doesn't mean that "she was sober enough". It doesn't mean "she wasn't raped". It simply means that in the opinion of twelve randoms there's not enough proof for the state to send someone to jail.

Because of how the state treats rape victims; because rape normally occurs in private where the only evidence is the testimony of the victim and the perpetrator (meaning that "reasonable doubt" is hard to achieve"); because of institutionalised misogyny of the police and courts; because of rape-myths believed by jurors; securing a conviction for rape is actually pretty rare. The courts are, all-told, a pretty crap arbiter of whether someone is a rapist or not.

What is a much better arbiter is what women who are survivors of sexual assault or rape are saying. Particularly someone who is brave enough not only to face down a rapist with high-social status in court, but to deal with a five-year campaign of harassment against them.

"Innocent until proven guilty" for Ched Evans means "liar until proven not a liar" for his victim. For standing up to her rapist, she faces a constant trial-by-media, trial-by-internet-forum, trial-by-shrill-twitter-lynch-mob. The smallest gesture of solidarity we should be able to muster, for her and for other women who may never see their abusers brought to justice is to believe them.

 

[spireite]

Am curious as to how this news is going down in Chesterfield

The majority are not happy with the signing.

 

[Renegade]

He's a prick for having cheated on his GF but how many people have done that? How many on this forum?

I don't understand this at all. If he is found not-guilty, it means that in the eyes of the law and therefore in the eyes of 12 people looking at all the facts etc, he is innocent. The women he had sex with was sober enough to consent.

I don't understand why some people have a problem with that.

As a prosecutor, you need to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Ched Evans raped this woman. If there is enough doubt in the jury, then he gets away with the conviction. This does not clear him from the criticism he will get from football fans and regular citizens across the UK, it just makes him innocent of this very specific definition of a sex crime. He has previously been convicted of rape by another jury - surely this is enough to tell you there are at least some grounds that he had his way with this woman? In something that can be construed as close to rape?

That should be enough for you not to want him to play for your club alone. You're very strict when it comes to the letter of the law, it's all black and white to you. You can be technically innocent of rape whilst on the verge of being a violent sex offender. Why would anyone want this man to play for their club?

EDIT: what Ian said.

 

[JJ1532]

What do courts actually do? They determine whether the CPS (usually) can prove beyond reasonable doubt that a crime was committed. If they find Ched Evans not guilty, it doesn't mean that her ability to consent was not compromised, but that there's reasonable doubt in the CPS's case.

It doesn't mean that "she was sober enough". It doesn't mean "she wasn't raped". It simply means that in the opinion of twelve randoms there's not enough proof for the state to send someone to jail.

Because of how the state treats rape victims; because rape normally occurs in private where the only evidence is the testimony of the victim and the perpetrator (meaning that "reasonable doubt" is hard to achieve"); because of institutionalised misogyny of the police and courts; because of rape-myths believed by jurors; securing a conviction for rape is actually pretty rare. The courts are, all-told, a pretty crap arbiter of whether someone is a rapist or not.

What is a much better arbiter is what women who are survivors of sexual assault or rape are saying. Particularly someone who is brave enough not only to face down a rapist with high-social status in court, but to deal with a five-year campaign of harassment against them.

"Innocent until proven guilty" for Ched Evans means "liar until proven not a liar" for his victim. For standing up to her rapist, she faces a constant trial-by-media, trial-by-internet-forum, trial-by-shrill-twitter-lynch-mob. The smallest gesture of solidarity we should be able to muster, for her and for other women who may never see their abusers brought to justice is to believe them.

So basically, you've made your mind up already. He is a rapist, end of story. Even if he's cleared, its only a sign that the justice system is flawed when it comes to these sorts of cases. That seems fair.

 

[RavenBish]

Probably true though

 

[Muzzle]

Well, the thing about the case was the girl was obviously falling down drunk (as CCTV footage showed before Evans and two other men approached her), it all boils down to that word of consent, and I think this is where the issue lies.

 

[NorfolkWomble]

What about people whose lives are destroyed by false rape claims Ian? Your attitude seems to be largely a case of fuck them.

 

[NorfolkWomble]

The courts might be a crap arbiter of whether someone is a rapist or not but they are the best arbiter we have, and a damn sight better than the court of public opinion.

 

[RavenBish]

Bottom line is Chesterfield have still signed a bloke on trial for rape (the ruling on his conviction is not a comment on his guilt or innocence) who hasn't played in 4 years, it's an odd decision however you look at it...Unless he bangs in 20 goals but even that comes at a cost. A dull draining cost (see Lee Hughes and the weekly sideshow)

 

[Indian Dan]

Can I be the first to say I don't give a fuck about Ched Evans or who he plays for.

He, and Chesterfield, both know they will get stick - warranted or not - and if they are prepared to accept it that's up to them.

I just get fed up of all holier-than-thou internet numpties

 

[SamScfc]

They could have at least waited til the season starts so it doesn't affect season ticket sales.

I've got my business head on here rather than focus on the main picture.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

What about people whose lives are destroyed by false rape claims Ian? Your attitude seems to be largely a case of fuck them.

False rape accusations are very rare but they do happen (though not more frequently than false accusations of other crimes).

I'm sure it's pretty upsetting to be falsely accused of anything, especially rape, but the extent to which they "destroy" lives is debatable. Most false accusations which name a perpetrator fall apart with minimal scrutiny (often before arrests are made). Virtually none actually reach court.

And again, for many of the same reasons that rape convictions are so hard to secure, being accused of rape is rarely as socially damaging to a man as accusing someone of rape is to a woman. It's frequently the case that the perpetrator's friends rally round the perpetrator, write off the victim as a "crazy bitch" or similar. I've seen it happen.

Even if Ched Evans is re convicted, his girlfriend, his family and his friends are still going to believe his side of the story. Clubs are going to pay him to play football. His life is far from destroyed. Meanwhile his victim is on her third new identity to avoid the harassment of Ched Evans loyalists.

 

[SpireiteDan]

They could have at least waited til the season starts so it doesn't affect season ticket sales.

I've got my business head on here rather than focus on the main picture.

The early bird offer ended before the end of last season (another two fingers up at the fans as we would have paid the same price for a ticket in League 2....and they're far from cheap even at League 1 standard). 99% of people who intended to have season tickets have already bought them (me included).

So don't worry, the club have already taken our money well in advance of shitting on us.

 

[RavenBish]

I just get fed up of all holier-than-thou internet numpties

See, this is the thing that irritates me about this whole thing. What Evans did was seedy in the extreme even if it's determined it wasn't rape, I can comfortably say it's something I'd never do and will never do without a tinge of doubt or sanctimony. To suggest it's a case of 'we all make mistakes and everyone deserves a second chance comeonfellasareyoutellingmeyouwouldnt' is plain wrong.

 

[NorfolkWomble]

If he gets convicted I can't see him playing for a club again

 

[Monkey Tennis]

There's a lot of hypocrisy with this situation - most people were up in arms when Sunderland continued to pick a player facing trial for a sex offence. This is no different.
There's a few posts on here suggesting he's likely to get off - no he isn't! Do you know how the justice system works? It's completely 50/50 at this stage, only Crown Prosecution think there's a good chance of conviction and his lawyers think there's a decent chance of new evidence getting him off. His conviction wasn't quashed because the judges thought he was innocent, it was quashed because new evidence wasn't considered first time round and might alter a jury's thinking.

Who would want their club to sign a player from another club if he was currently suspended and facing trial for a sex offence? Absolutely none.
This is exactly the same, only he has no club to be suspended from.

Just a tacky move by Chesterfield to gamble on making a bit of cash in the event of him being found innocent. Might cost them a fair bit in the long run if people stop going/advertisers pull out.