Ched Evans to sign for Chesterfield

[Indian Dan]

See, this is the thing that irritates me about this whole thing. What Evans did was seedy in the extreme even if it's determined it wasn't rape, I can comfortably say it's something I'd never do and will never do without a tinge of doubt or sanctimony. To suggest it's a case of 'we all make mistakes and everyone deserves a second chance comeonfellasareyoutellingmeyouwouldnt' is plain wrong.

So nobody under any circumstances deserves a second chance?

 

[Liam_SWFC]

Think it's a lose lose situation for Chesterfield, it's awful PR especially if his rape conviction is given to him again at his retrial. In terms of the footballing side of it he's not played since 2012 and has since done nothing, that's a long time to be away from the pro game. Also I'm not conviced he's actually that good, before that purple patch season for United in League One he was dog shit and their fans didn't rate him one bit. Maybe Danny Wilson can get him firing again, of course if he's proven innocent I wish him the best of luck.

 

[RavenBish]

So nobody under any circumstances deserves a second chance?

Remorse.

Wasn't really my point though, served his punishment either way and imo should be allowed to play football, that was before the ruling. Second chances are part of our justice system cos we're not backward and hang people. To suggest he's a gigantic disgusting shameless c*** isn't a 'holier than thou' attitude though, that's laughable given the incident in question

 

[JoeJoeJoeJoe]

Remorse.

Wasn't really my point though, served his punishment either way and imo should be allowed to play football, that was before the ruling. Second chances are part of our justice system cos we're not backward and hang people. To suggest he's a gigantic disgusting shameless c*** isn't a 'holier than thou' attitude though, that's laughable given the incident in question

Would you have remorse if you believed you were innocent?

 

[Sheffsteel]

The infamous Ched Evans debate eh?

It's such an emotive divisive arguement that can never be won because everyone has different views based on their morality and experiences. Also it's an emotive subject because it's sex and the seedier side of it which carries loads of baggage.

The problem is the world has changed a lot in recent. Some women are now as bad as men regards being sexual predetors. Also some women enjoy threesomes. However the sheltered amongst us can't bring themselves to believe such a thing and therefore women must be being abused by men.

The other issue is alcohol. It's always a dodgy area when it's involved because it's so personal. How can anyone predict with certainty how she was affected from 1 hour to the next? She didn't even know she was raped until after the verdict as she says she can't remember if she consented or not. So if a not guilty verdict is given then at least she'll have the comfort of knowing she wasn't raped.

Anyway I prefer to talk about the football and Ched even splits opinion on that count.

We signed him for 3 years and for the first 2 years he was like a version of Torres at Chelsea. Had a big reputation, could see he had talent but just not quite good enough for the Championship. He seemed a little slow, lacking in sharpness and effort and to be honest was a big big let down and a poor signing.

However in his final season he was pretty good up to Xmas but then after Xmas he was absolutely fantastic, head and shoulders above league 1 standard, he was probably nearer PL standard than Champiosnhip standard and was a regular for the Welsh National side playing well. Probably has been in Euro16 now if he'd not been convicted.

Just before he was sent to prison I remember thinking we've kind of been conned by Ched. We give him a big contract and he's very ordinary for 80% of it, then just when it's time for new contract negotiations surprise surprise for the last 20% of his United career he plays like a world beater (easily best player in league 1). He was playing so well we all expected him to earn a deserved big contract elsewhere and move on but we've been shortchanged by him.

 

[RavenBish]

Would you have remorse if you believed you were innocent?

Ah that old chestnut rears it's head again.

 

[JoeJoeJoeJoe]

Ah that old chestnut rears it's head again.

Not really an old chestnut, more no you wouldn't

 

[TractorBoys]

Good news for the lad. Whether he can still cut it after such a long time out of the game, who knows?

 

[RavenBish]

Not really an old chestnut, more no you wouldn't

Guilt is acknowledging a crime or a harmful action while remorse is regretting the actions and taking steps to undo damage. If you remove the idea that the girl was too drunk to consent, his actions are still deplorable and he should have at least shown some sort of realisation about that.

 

[JoeJoeJoeJoe]

Guilt is acknowledging a crime or a harmful action while remorse is regretting the actions and taking steps to undo damage. If you remove the idea that the girl was too drunk to consent, his actions are still deplorable and he should have at least shown some sort of realisation about that.

I imagine he has done which is why his girlfriend has stood by him the whole time.

 

[NorfolkWomble]

I disagree with Ian_Wrexham that the impact of false rape claims is minimal on those they are made against. They can ruin careers, ruin lives etc. Nigel Evans had it against him a few years ago. There have been a few cases in the US where people were shunned, their college careers ruined etc, only for the girl to later admit that it was false.

I don't understand the "too drunk to consent" argument to be honest. Can someone please explain why she was sober enough to consent to sleep with Clayton McDonald but then not to Ched Evans? Was there a massive time difference between the two events?

 

[Urban]

I disagree with Ian_Wrexham that the impact of false rape claims is minimal on those they are made against. They can ruin careers, ruin lives etc. Nigel Evans had it against him a few years ago. There have been a few cases in the US where people were shunned, their college careers ruined etc, only for the girl to later admit that it was false.

I don't understand the "too drunk to consent" argument to be honest. Can someone please explain why she was sober enough to consent to sleep with Clayton McDonald but then not to Ched Evans? Was there a massive time difference between the two events?

I don't know, I like to thing when pissed people might consent to having sex with just one bloke, not the second whose creepy head pops around the door 20 minutes later. Not all women are raving sex freaks who can't get enough of it, and neither does alcohol turn them into one.

 

[Westbars_Spireite]

I really wish we hadn't but those in charge at the club don't give a fuck either way.
.

 

[NorfolkWomble]

I don't know, I like to thing when pissed people might consent to having sex with just one bloke, not the second whose creepy head pops around the door 20 minutes later. Not all women are raving sex freaks who can't get enough of it, and neither does alcohol turn them into one.

Surely if she was sober enough though to consent at the point of sleeping with the first guy, she wouldn't have suddenly got so much worse? Unless they argued that the actions before they had sex indicated consent? Is that a thing?

I don't see why you feel the need to clarify that at the end there, it goes without saying, but neither of us can know about the motivations of this girl.

 

[PuB]

Maybe she was sober enough to consent with the first guy. Ched Evans then appeared from somewhere and had sex with her anyway, and left through the back door of the hotel.

I'm baffled as to why young men don't understand what consent is.

 

[NorfolkWomble]

How can she not be sober enough to say yes to him and nothing to the next one? 20 mins or so was the time difference?

 

[Aber gas]

So she's drunk, agrees to consensual sex with someone she fancies - fine. She's then presented with an extremely stressfull position where another person wants to have sex with her and she says no/ is too drunk to clearly say no.- not fine
I'm not sure what's confusing tbh

 

[NorfolkWomble]

Isn't that all just pure speculation? No proof that any of that happened.

 

[Aber gas]

Isn't Evans being innocent just pure speculation ?

 

[Aber gas]

Also ( this is just my opinion ) what sort of rapey weirdo try's to have sex with their mate's drunken partner.
Did I miss a meeting?

 

[NorfolkWomble]

It is fucking odd as and 100% something I would never do but not illegal. It isn't pure speculation because his conviction was quashed.

 

[Aber gas]

And then once convicted of said rape orchestrates a campaign of harassment through social media which leaves the victim without anonymity and without the right to reply.
She's on her third identity apparently but let's focus on " whether he can still score goals"

 

[TractorBoys]

All the experts ITT, were you all there?

 

[Freakyteeth]

classic chesterfield scum

 

[spireite]

classic chesterfield scum

 

[NorfolkWomble]

And then once convicted of said rape orchestrates a campaign of harassment through social media which leaves the victim without anonymity and without the right to reply.
She's on her third identity apparently but let's focus on " whether he can still score goals"

View attachment 3603

Did he personally orchestrate it? If so he is an idiot but I'd imagine he thought that this girl knew she was lying and had little sympathy for her.

 

[Robie]

For those struggling to understand consent;

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

I don't understand the "too drunk to consent" argument to be honest. Can someone please explain why she was sober enough to consent to sleep with Clayton McDonald but then not to Ched Evans? Was there a massive time difference between the two events?

I think it's pretty apparent that she wasn't capable of consenting to have sex with Clayton McDonald. She certainly says she wasn't able to consent (and to reiterate, I believe her). The CPS clearly agreed that it was likely. However, they were not able to prove beyond reasonable doubt to a jury.

I guess the jury were swayed by the fact that there was interaction between the two and that created sufficient doubt that Clayton McDonald believed she was capable of consenting to sex.

That doesn't mean "she was sober enough" or "she consented" or that Clayton McDonald was falsely accused; simply that there was sufficient doubt to acquit him in court where there wasn't (necessarily) for Ched Evans.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Ian,
People often use the line how come McDonald was innocent whilst Ched was guilty.

As you've said the 2 cases are very different. A simple question to the accused "what made you think you had consent"?

McDonald could say "she approached me in the street. We chatted for a while, she seemed to fancy me so got a taxi together. She willingly went to the hotel with me and seemed to enjoy the sex." This type of 1 night stand happens up & down the country all the time.

Whereas Ched could only say "I turned up out of the blue and she seemed drunk but a more than willing participant of a three some".
This is so different and doesn't happen that often. Also his behaviour leaving via a fire exit intimates he knew his wrong doing. And the fact his mates were taking photos at the hotel window shows a massive disrespect for the girl suggests it could be premeditated.

However there was no physical evidence that penetration took place, the girl says she can't remember. The only evidence is that Ched and Clayton admiitted sex in the early interviews and neither saw the need to have solicitors present suggesting both believed they had nothing to fear. The night porter listened at the door, didn't hear a struggle and only heard people enjoying sex so he left.

It's a bit of a minefield and I'm glad I'm not on the jury.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Another commin saying I hear is that it must be terrible for Ched if he genuinely believes he's innocent.

However if given a truth serum then in his heart of hearts Ched might believe he didn't rape her

But just because he had no knowledge of a crime occurring doesn't mean a crime may have been committed.