Confirmed Transfers Thread 17/18

[Bilo]

A wage cap is the only thing that can save modern football being competitive beyond 2-3 teams per competition imo. American sports is shit in so many ways but the wage cap is working miracles in making their leagues far more competitive. The problem is of course getting every league on board, and even if you manage to get everyone on board in Europe, the MLS and China will become a lot more appealing.

 

[epic73]

Because they don't give a fuck, they'll pay anything.

Applies for us as well.

 

[SALTIRE]

The more the merrier in my opinion mate.

Scotsmen have been involved in 41 trophies for Liverpool as were the last two a few years back when the league cup was won, so we're a good omen matey!

 

[Stevencc]

Scotsmen have been involved in 41 trophies for Liverpool as were the last two a few years back when the league cup was won, so we're a good omen matey!

There have been a number of Scotsmen at the heart of our successes too mate but I can't think of too many I'd want to bring in at the moment!

 

[SALTIRE]

There have been a number of Scotsmen at the heart of our successes too mate but I can't think of too many I'd want to bring in at the moment!

Aye too true that, we're in a real mess and it doesn't look to be improving any time soon.

 

[Benji]

Easy, just another £150m and they've cracked it.

Danilo and Mendy in for a total of about £80m, they're almost there.

 

[silkyman]

Aye, a few overtly nationalist reporters thinking he was world-class means pretty much everyone was on board with it. Of course. I don't even think silkyman thought he was world class, maybe he remembers what the consensus was as a Macclesfield Town supporter.

I always thought he was and is a very, very good goalkeeper, but like most, he did have the odd mistake in him. He's put in some spectacular performances in his time at City. He won the golden glove four out of his last six seasons (and was an own goal on the final day of the season away from it being a joint award the season before last). Some of those performances came in the CL. Not many 'keepers can claim they have saved penalties from Messi, Ibrahimovic, Lampard and Ronaldinho.

Funnily enough, my first ever consensus as a Macclesfield Town supporter, was seeing him in the FA Youth Cup in the early 2000's and he put in a great performance in a (I think) 1-0 win for Shrewsbury. I remember checking the teamsheet to get the lad's name to try and keep an eye out for him.

It's a real shame he is gone. City might not have won the league with him last season, but would have put in a better challenge because he's a very, very good shotstopper. He's also a real link to the past, signed by Stuart Pearce for £500k. I'd love to see him back, and will certainly be watching out for West Ham with him and PabZab on the books.

 

[Renegade]

I always thought he was and is a very, very good goalkeeper, but like most, he did have the odd mistake in him. He's put in some spectacular performances in his time at City. He won the golden glove four out of his last six seasons (and was an own goal on the final day of the season away from it being a joint award the season before last). Some of those performances came in the CL. Not many 'keepers can claim they have saved penalties from Messi, Ibrahimovic, Lampard and Ronaldinho.

Funnily enough, my first ever consensus as a Macclesfield Town supporter, was seeing him in the FA Youth Cup in the early 2000's and he put in a great performance in a (I think) 1-0 win for Shrewsbury. I remember checking the teamsheet to get the lad's name to try and keep an eye out for him.

It's a real shame he is gone. City might not have won the league with him last season, but would have put in a better challenge because he's a very, very good shotstopper. He's also a real link to the past, signed by Stuart Pearce for £500k. I'd love to see him back, and will certainly be watching out for West Ham with him and PabZab on the books.

I agree, I reckon he is probably the best option at goalkeeper outside the Champions League spots. How many goalkeepers in the Premier League are better than him? In my view, only the world class keepers I listed earlier and that's hardly an indictment of his ability. He's still a quality player.

 

[claret50]

I'm quite pleased with our confirmed transfers so far in this window.

Pablo Zabaleta - Man City
Joe Hart - Man City
Anouar El Mhassani - Ajax
Marko Arnautovic - Stoke City
Javier Hernandez - Bayer Leverkusen.

 

[St. Juste]

I always thought he was and is a very, very good goalkeeper, but like most, he did have the odd mistake in him. He's put in some spectacular performances in his time at City. He won the golden glove four out of his last six seasons (and was an own goal on the final day of the season away from it being a joint award the season before last). Some of those performances came in the CL. Not many 'keepers can claim they have saved penalties from Messi, Ibrahimovic, Lampard and Ronaldinho.

Funnily enough, my first ever consensus as a Macclesfield Town supporter, was seeing him in the FA Youth Cup in the early 2000's and he put in a great performance in a (I think) 1-0 win for Shrewsbury. I remember checking the teamsheet to get the lad's name to try and keep an eye out for him.

It's a real shame he is gone. City might not have won the league with him last season, but would have put in a better challenge because he's a very, very good shotstopper. He's also a real link to the past, signed by Stuart Pearce for £500k. I'd love to see him back, and will certainly be watching out for West Ham with him and PabZab on the books.

I agree, I reckon he is probably the best option at goalkeeper outside the Champions League spots. How many goalkeepers in the Premier League are better than him? In my view, only the world class keepers I listed earlier and that's hardly an indictment of his ability. He's still a quality player.

So, given this, why did he get called out by the Torino President for making so many mistakes, let in two bad goals against Scotland and can't find a club that would take him on a free transfer?

The best he is can do is a loan to West Ham - whether or not that is his level we will see in the coming season.

 

[JimJams]

Where do you get the idea that nobody will take him on a free transfer, given he's under contract and so has a price? Have Man City offered to release him?

 

[JimJams]

Also, Torino wanted to keep Hart but can't afford him. And the criticism of Hart by the Torino president was accompanied by the words 'due to speculation over his future' he said that Harts level had dropped. You're being very selective with finding criticism.

 

[Renegade]

So, given this, why did he get called out by the Torino President for making so many mistakes, let in two bad goals against Scotland and can't find a club that would take him on a free transfer?

The best he is can do is a loan to West Ham - whether or not that is his level we will see in the coming season.

He's had one (arguably) poor season in a foreign land, to which he was shipped off at the last minute not knowing the language or the culture. I'll give him a pass on that. Every goalkeeper makes mistakes - see Hart's third replacement at City just last week. Name the better goalkeepers in the Premier League outside of Courtois, Lloris, De Gea and Cech. I don't think you'll have an exhaustive list and it'll be one I'll certainly be able to argue against - it's not like I'm claiming he's world class, just a very good goalkeeper. At a push I can only think of maybe Schmeichel or Heaton and only Kasper has been tested at the highest level.

On what he had produced the previous half decade at Manchester City (4 golden gloves by the age of 28 as silky has already pointed out), he is clearly at least an upper mid-table keeper, which makes sense because he's landed at a club with upper mid-table aspirations. He has a contract with City until 2019 and wouldn't be cheap to buy outright for clubs in that tier. He's on £110k+ per week at City, another reason that clubs haven't come in for him, as JJ pointed out.

 

[Stevencc]

Romero is better if you are including backup keepers.

 

[Renegade]

Nah, he was a back up at Monaco and at the end of his Sampdoria career and now his only exposure is the Europa League. He doesn't really have anything over Hart. Great back up mind.

 

[Stevencc]

Based on his performances for United only (I hadn't seen him before that, admittedly), I'd definitely have him ahead of Hart but he has had limited exposure in the league and the higher levels of European football so I won't argue the point too strongly.

 

[Lance Stoe]

Begovic
Ospina
Foster

Are all better

 

[Renegade]

Begovic, absolute failure when given a chance at Chelsea in Courtois's absence, good mid-table keeper. Foster, failure at Manchester United, good mid-table keeper. Ospina, who knows when the player is a back up and has barely proven themself outside of International football? Ospina firmly in the Romero camp, makes as many gaffes as Hart and saves less because he is a runt (for a goalkeeper). None have a good evidence against Hart.

 

[JimJams]

Schmeicel is better.

 

[St. Juste]

Also, Torino wanted to keep Hart but can't afford him. And the criticism of Hart by the Torino president was accompanied by the words 'due to speculation over his future' he said that Harts level had dropped. You're being very selective with finding criticism.

Lets look at the exact quote "We probably didn’t expect so many mistakes from an England international".

He's had one (arguably) poor season in a foreign land, to which he was shipped off at the last minute not knowing the language or the culture. I'll give him a pass on that. Every goalkeeper makes mistakes - see Hart's third replacement at City just last week. Name the better goalkeepers in the Premier League outside of Courtois, Lloris, De Gea and Cech. I don't think you'll have an exhaustive list and it'll be one I'll certainly be able to argue against - it's not like I'm claiming he's world class, just a very good goalkeeper. At a push I can only think of maybe Schmeichel or Heaton and only Kasper has been tested at the highest level.

On what he had produced the previous half decade at Manchester City (4 golden gloves by the age of 28 as silky has already pointed out), he is clearly at least an upper mid-table keeper, which makes sense because he's landed at a club with upper mid-table aspirations. He has a contract with City until 2019 and wouldn't be cheap to buy outright for clubs in that tier. He's on £110k+ per week at City, another reason that clubs haven't come in for him, as JJ pointed out.

The others have already been mentioned on this thread.

But you're right - teams would not take him on a free. Man City are literally paying part of his wages for Hart go to West Ham - that's indicative on a player who isn't that wanted, and is not justifying his contract. He should be entering his prime but they can't even give him away without paying someone to take him on.

Regarding the Golden Gloves comment, poor players can survive in good or great teams - when Harts number was up no other good or great teams wanted him.

Regarding him being an upper mid table GK - we will see how he gets on at West Ham this season.

But for the claims of one of the best in the Premier League - if that was the case then surely some team, given the enormous finances in the Premier League, could afford his £110k a week wages? All probably could. None want to.

 

[Renegade]

Lets look at the exact quote "We probably didn’t expect so many mistakes from an England international".



The others have already been mentioned on this thread.

But you're right - teams would not take him on a free. Man City are literally paying part of his wages for Hart go to West Ham - that's indicative on a player who isn't that wanted, and is not justifying his contract. He should be entering his prime but they can't even give him away without paying someone to take him on.

Regarding the Golden Gloves comment, poor players can survive in good or great teams - when Harts number was up no other good or great teams wanted him.

Regarding him being an upper mid table GK - we will see how he gets on at West Ham this season.

But for the claims of one of the best in the Premier League - if that was the case then surely some team, given the enormous finances in the Premier League, could afford his £110k a week wages? All probably could. None want to.

We fundamentally disagree on his ability, so not going to bother going around in circles. Your last comment however, have you seen Spurs wages? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...remier-League-club-s-highest-paid-player.html

Only Harry Kane and Hugo Lloris earn £100k. Teams, especially those weaker and poorer than Spurs aren't likely to give that much up for a goalkeeper - traditionally one of the lesser paid positions in football - unless the position is an absolute weakness in their side, which it was in West Ham's case. To other sides, the marginal benefit from taking on a slightly better but far more expensive goalkeeper simply isn't worth it when they can use the funds to improve glaring weaknesses in their squads. Why make Joe Hart the highest earner in your club's history when you can pay a slightly worse but much cheaper Asmir Begovic £60k? Hart is a very good goalkeeper on world-class wages - he's being paid more than Cech and Lloris, which is City's fault, not Hart's. You are being reductive - not everything is black and white, there is room for nuance and externalities.

 

[SALTIRE]

Schmeicel is better.

Hart ousted him at City.

 

[JimJams]

Hart ousted him at City.

He did indeed, but Schmeicel has improved massively. When we bought him from Leeds he was a bit of a flapper. One thing Kaspar has improved in massively is his own confidence, something Hart has never been short on.
You're also talking about 10 years ago when Hart took the number 1 spot. A long time ago.

 

[SALTIRE]

He did indeed, but Schmeicel has improved massively. When we bought him from Leeds he was a bit of a flapper. One thing Kaspar has improved in massively is his own confidence, something Hart has never been short on.

Yeah I know, was just being mischievous. I'd have Schmeichel all day over Hart now, he has come into his peak later on in his development, whilst Hart peaked early and has now fallen off a cliff.

 

[St. Juste]

We fundamentally disagree on his ability, so not going to bother going around in circles. Your last comment however, have you seen Spurs wages? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...remier-League-club-s-highest-paid-player.html

Only Harry Kane and Hugo Lloris earn £100k. Teams, especially those weaker and poorer than Spurs aren't likely to give that much up for a goalkeeper - traditionally one of the lesser paid positions in football - unless the position is an absolute weakness in their side, which it was in West Ham's case. To other sides, the marginal benefit from taking on a slightly better but far more expensive goalkeeper simply isn't worth it when they can use the funds to improve glaring weaknesses in their squads. Why make Joe Hart the highest earner in your club's history when you can pay a slightly worse but much cheaper Asmir Begovic £60k? Hart is a very good goalkeeper on world-class wages - he's being paid more than Cech and Lloris, which is City's fault, not Hart's. You are being reductive - not everything is black and white, there is room for nuance and externalities.

You actually seem to be in agreement with me. All teams could afford to pay Harts wage - none have chosen to do so. If he was that good, or going to make that much of a difference to their side, they would do so.

As it is Man City are literally paying part of his wages so another club can take him on. They would have been doing the exact same as Torino (to probably a greater extent).

That's a pretty damning indictment of any player, he clearly isn't worth the wages he is on and they can't give him away for free.

Regarding his ability - as I said, we will see how he gets on at West Ham.

 

[JimJams]

Again, why do you keep saying they can't give him away for free?

 

[Renegade]

You actually seem to be in agreement with me. All teams could afford to pay Harts wage - none have chosen to do so. If he was that good, or going to make that much of a difference to their side, they would do so.

As it is Man City are literally paying part of his wages so another club can take him on. They would have been doing the exact same as Torino (to probably a greater extent).

That's a pretty damning indictment of any player, he clearly isn't worth the wages he is on and they can't give him away for free.

Regarding his ability - as I said, we will see how he gets on at West Ham.

I'm not in agreement with you about anything other than he was overpaid at City, even his biggest fans can see that. I think he is a better option at goalkeeper than all but five goalkeepers in the Premier League and the lack of demand for his services can be explained by his excessive wages and that he is still under contract at City for another two years. The marginal improvement that you would get with Hart over the other incumbent upper-mid table keepers isn't worth the extra overhead for these clubs, other than West Ham who were glaringly weak at the position. For the other clubs, it's more cost-efficient to stick with what they currently have and using that large wage on improving other areas (weaknesses) in their team. That's not an indictment of Hart's ability, it's an indication of what these clubs have prioritised.

 

[St. Juste]

Again, why do you keep saying they can't give him away for free?

What are you not getting? There isn't a team, on earth, who is willing to cover his wages. They are having to pay a portion of these wages for another side to take him. At the start of the window they were indicating they were only letting him leave permanently, when it became clear nobody would pay for him they had to offer to pay part of his wages to let him leave.

For two seasons in a row!

Ergo, they can't even give him away for free. They have to pay part of his wages for another team to take him.

I'm not in agreement with you about anything other than he was overpaid at City, even his biggest fans can see that. I think he is a better option at goalkeeper than all but five goalkeepers in the Premier League and the lack of demand for his services can be explained by his excessive wages and that he is still under contract at City for another two years. The marginal improvement that you would get with Hart over the other incumbent upper-mid table keepers isn't worth the extra overhead for these clubs, other than West Ham who were glaringly weak at the position. For the other clubs, it's more cost-efficient to stick with what they currently have and using that large wage on improving other areas (weaknesses) in their team. That's not an indictment of Hart's ability, it's an indication of what these clubs have prioritised.

So my statements as follows:

"Every Premier League could afford Harts wages, none have chosen to do so."

"As for Hart being a West Ham standard goalkeeper, or top 5 in the league, we will see this season if that is the case."

Which don't you agree with?

 

[Bilo]

You actually refer to your own posts as "statements". I give up now.

 

[Stevencc]

It'll be "exhibit a" next.