EFL Proposing Salary Caps

[chipmunx]

Sounds like Salford are likely to vote against it too.

it should be the teams in each league next season that get a vote... we would certainly vote yes...

 

[Chris FGR]

Will each division decide for themselves? Or does it need 66% of all 72 clubs to vote for it?

 

[valefan16]

Big clubs will vote against it as Vale have suggested because £1.5 Million means you cant build forward, ours would be around or above that so progressive wise it would stop that even if we had the finance to do it sensibly, whereas smaller clubs will vote for it to level the playing field and pull the big spenders down.

Think each is voting for its own rule and needs 2/3 although are looking at flexibility on it such as U21 players dont count for example or you can exempt players from it under certain circumstances.

I think you should be able to spend within your means but need tighter controls on it to avoid the loopholes that have been used.

 

[Chris FGR]

Clubs spending within their means relies on all owners being sensible a though. Which hasn't worked that well up till now.

I wouldn't mind a tiered wage cap system within leagues based on income but not including sponsorship/donations from owners, so clubs with bigger crowds/income like Bradford, Bolton and Vale would be capped at £2m or whatever and clubs like us, Crawley, Salford and Morecambe capped at £1.25m.

If you can increase your income you can increase your salary cap. If you make losses it gets reduced.

Main priority is to stop clubs making losses. Otherwise the entire lower leagues will be totally fucked.

 

[Conker]

Be interesting to see a tally of who's likely to vote which way. Pretty sure the likes of Macc, Morecambe and Carlisle would vote for a cap? Maybe Southend too?

Whereas the likes of Bradford, Bolton and Mansfield probably wouldn't?

I know JR is in favour of a cap, obviously not the details though.

And the letter sent to the EFL from him suggesting all L2 clubs are, but obviously it’s always more complicated than that.

 

[Conker]

No. Is Radford in favour of it then? Or just acting as spokesman for the league?

I’ve actually edited my post since then, but I’ll try and find the full letter on Stagsnet, here’s a bbc article on it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/52398548

So it was actually sent on behalf of 37 teams in L1/2.

 

[Chris FGR]

I’ve actually edited my post since then, but I’ll try and find the full letter on Stagsnet, here’s a bbc article on it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/52398548

So it was actually sent on behalf of 37 teams in L1/2.

No worries deleted mine thanks for the link.

37/47 clubs in favour at that point then. Wonder how many of those were in each division. Needs a minimum of 16 in each to pass.

 

[valefan16]

The issue is yes its a great "leveller" but big clubs like Bradford, Plymouth, or larger clubs at this level like Vale, Swindon for example may have the income to spend more and need to be trying to get back out the league the top end to avoid financial disaster elsewhere (loss of fans etc) so shackling clubs too much could be detrimental.

On the flip side saying Vale can spend £2 million because of our size and Morecambe can spend £1.2 million is then creating a step level within the division which means if Morecambe say got a windfall from a big sale or cup tie they couldn't close that gap to be more competitive.

They need a better income based control without the loopholes with loans etc.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

Has to be a level playing field or there's literally no point at all in having a salary cap.

 

[Luke Imp]

Has to be a level playing field or there's literally no point at all in having a salary cap.

The problem is, it'll never be a level playing field with one because you'll have clubs who probably can't get to the upper limit and other clubs who could be sustainable above it.

 

[Luke Imp]

Big clubs will vote against it as Vale have suggested because £1.5 Million means you cant build forward, ours would be around or above that so progressive wise it would stop that even if we had the finance to do it sensibly, whereas smaller clubs will vote for it to level the playing field and pull the big spenders down.

Think each is voting for its own rule and needs 2/3 although are looking at flexibility on it such as U21 players dont count for example or you can exempt players from it under certain circumstances.

I think you should be able to spend within your means but need tighter controls on it to avoid the loopholes that have been used.

That'll be interesting because if the voting goes 'wrong' you could end up with L1 having a salary cap of, say, £2.5m and the leagues above and below it having no salary cap.

That'd mean clubs from both ends coming into the league with a period of time needed to fall in line with it and effectively split L1 into 7 teams who aren't under a salary cap and 17 who aren't, which is going to put the former at an advantage.

I'm pretty sure they'd have to vote as a whole on agreed divisional caps rather individual leagues.

 

[LS Bantam]

We’ve been incredibly against it in the local press (https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co...-city-strongly-opposed-salary-cap-league-two/).
Well summed up from our point of view here, https://widthofapost.com/2020/06/22/capped-aspirations/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

[Indian Dan]

Got to say, I never envisaged any cap would apply almost immediately. It’s impossible for, say, Sunderland to shift £12.5m of wages in an instant. Mansfield seem to think that any cap would not be retrospective, hence why they are active now. If that’s not to be the case, they’ve really shot themselves in the foot already.

Why they just can’t police the present arrangement of wages to turnover ratio properly - with instant and no appeal points deductions for exceeding it - I don’t understand.

The dumbing down of football does nobody any favours.

 

[Huntsman94]

Sounds like Salford are likely to vote against it too.

Well I for one am completely and utterly surprised at that!

 

[Huntsman94]

We would be in favour of a salary cap. Our Owners have campaigned for it for a while now.

I also think it would take a season or two for clubs to fully align with it. Or maybe have to have a certain percentage reduction per season, which they have to consistently meet, until they’re in line with the salary cap.

 

[Boz]

I don’t understand why Mark Palios is so keen on the salary cap idea. Player wages are likely to drop due to the COVID situation anyway.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

For the last decade, players in these leagues have been on wages they don't necessarily deserve to be on for the quality of the product. Pre-solidarity payments, you weren't seeing L1/L2 players on £4-5000 a week unless they played for a fallen giant like Leeds, so I find it absurd when teams are paying those daft wages, making no money from player sales or commercial revenue and are still running up massive debts. And they really are daft.

Colchester's owner hit the nail on the head when he said Chairmen feel forced to match wages of bankrolled clubs to retain their best players which is what's causing the modern day crisis in the game. Are Mansfield going for broke this season knowing it could be the last uncapped year so they can quickly readjust to a League One cap if they went up for instance? The wages need to be knocked down a few pegs across the wider English game. It causes short-termism, trigger happy chairmen firing managers, agents to get significantly richer and ludicrous expectations from clubs with 3-4000 fans a game.

Do many clubs even have clear long term philosophies other than spunk all the solidarity payments on player wages and signing on/agents fees and hope for the best these days? Because a lack of direction is English footballs biggest problem right now.

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

For the last decade, players in these leagues have been on wages they don't necessarily deserve to be on for the quality of the product. Pre-solidarity payments, you weren't seeing L1/L2 players on £4-5000 a week unless they played for a fallen giant like Leeds, so I find it absurd when teams are paying those daft wages, making no money from player sales or commercial revenue and are still running up massive debts. And they really are daft.

Colchester's owner hit the nail on the head when he said Chairmen feel forced to match wages of bankrolled clubs to retain their best players which is what's causing the modern day crisis in the game. Are Mansfield going for broke this season knowing it could be the last uncapped year so they can quickly readjust to a League One cap if they went up for instance? The wages need to be knocked down a few pegs across the wider English game. It causes short-termism, trigger happy chairmen firing managers, agents to get significantly richer and ludicrous expectations from clubs with 3-4000 fans a game.

Do many clubs even have clear long term philosophies other than spunk all the solidarity payments on player wages and signing on/agents fees and hope for the best these days? Because a lack of direction is English footballs biggest problem right now.

Im very uneasy with talk of what players "deserve" to be paid and the fact that it seems to be they who you want to carry the can for football clubs not being run properly. This sort of talk and that of the Colchester chairman you reference, lets the owners off the hook far far too easily in my view and fails to hold them account - the salary cap penalises those providing the actual product whilst giving owners an easy out for not investing in there business properly with long term plans.

We should be promoting and encouraging good business sense and custodianship of clubs, not penalising some employees of the clubs, as a short term quick fix to a collective abdication of responsibility on behalf of the owners. Lets face it, the reason that many want it isn't for any altruistic reason of sustainability, its to maintain the status quo and lessen there burden. If they really wanted sustainability they would be putting forward measures that put extra scrutiny on themselves, enforcing the publishing in full of club accounts, enforcing business planning, independent regulation outside of the clubs themselves, and extra scrutiny on ownership as a whole, not the players.

Promote actual good and business sense and long term planning to grow clubs financially, I maintain a hard and fast salary cap doesn't do that. It certainly doesn't do it as a stand alone without wider reforms which don't seem to be forthcoming from anywhere.

 

[Luke Imp]

Voting takes place tomorrow.

 

[valefan16]

Voting takes place tomorrow.

Interesting to see how this goes, our CEO thinks it’s going to be very tight either way.

 

[Luke Imp]

Interesting to see how this goes, our CEO thinks it’s going to be very tight either way.

L1 will be closer because of the bigger extreme of Club size (Sunderland, Ipswich and particularly Portsmouth have been vocal about it) but I think L2 will pass easily and L1 to pass as well, just not with as big a majority.

 

[LS Bantam]

The salary cap is “unlawful and unenforceable” according to the PFA.

 

[valefan16]

L1 will be closer because of the bigger extreme of Club size (Sunderland, Ipswich and particularly Portsmouth have been vocal about it) but I think L2 will pass easily and L1 to pass as well, just not with as big a majority.

Needs 2/3 i think so only needs 9 L2 clubs to reject it?

Vale are likely to judging by our feedback
Bradford, Salford, Bolton, Mansfield, maybe Tranmere you'd expect to reject it, but beyond that its an unknown, of course the smaller clubs will want it as it levels the playing field for them so will probably be decided by mid sized clubs for the league such as Carlisle, Exeter, Colchester.

 

[Conker]

Needs 2/3 i think so only needs 9 L2 clubs to reject it?

Vale are likely to judging by our feedback
Bradford, Salford, Bolton, Mansfield, maybe Tranmere you'd expect to reject it, but beyond that its an unknown, of course the smaller clubs will want it as it levels the playing field for them so will probably be decided by mid sized clubs for the league such as Carlisle, Exeter, Colchester.

I cannot even be arsed anymore

 

[Luke Imp]

Needs 2/3 i think so only needs 9 L2 clubs to reject it?

Vale are likely to judging by our feedback
Bradford, Salford, Bolton, Mansfield, maybe Tranmere you'd expect to reject it, but beyond that its an unknown, of course the smaller clubs will want it as it levels the playing field for them so will probably be decided by mid sized clubs for the league such as Carlisle, Exeter, Colchester.

I'm not sure whether it's a straight majority or a percentage target tbh.

 

[Luke Imp]

The salary cap is “unlawful and unenforceable” according to the PFA.

They keep focusing on individual wages but there's nothing stopping Club's still paying £10k/week. Obviously it messes the full budget up for the Club but that's their choice.

For those interested (I haven't read it!) the PFA's 'Report for Consideration' is here:

https://www.thepfa.com/-/media/Files/PFA---EFL-Salary-Cap-Proposals.pdf?la=en

 

[Luke Imp]

It's slightly concerning that the PFA are unsure on "...of how the regulations will aid future financial sustainability."

 

[Chris FGR]

The PFA are useless c*** anyway, tell them to do one.

 

[Atavistic]

And it's been approved for Leagues 1 and 2.

I get the sustainability argument, but the fact that it hasn't been implemented from top to bottom of English football is awful for the competitiveness of English football. Unless the Championship and the Premier League now follow suit and introduce their own appropriate caps (and there's not a snowball's chance in hell of the Premier League doing that), those two leagues just become closed shops as promoted teams won't have a hope of competing financially while teams relegated to League 1 will just go straight back up with ease.

 

[Chris FGR]

Confirms most teams budgets are set at or below £1.5m then, as judging by the majority of clubs business up till now, most haven't gone for it and brought in big names.

No more big signings coming in for anyone from now on either.