EFL Trophy rules changed again....quietly!

[ThisTinpotLeague]

Also the bumping of this gives another opportunity to hope that Swindon fans join me in staying away from the game tomorrow. This is a repeat of last year's fixture and that makes it a great opportunity for a statement.

It's a particular stinger for me because the winning streak is now ruined. If we win, then some will try and claim it's 7. I won't. If we lose then Swindon will say it's over.

If this was a friendly, I'd make the journey and be all up for a derby. However this is much, much worse and the rumours about the oppositions finger-count really pale in comparison.

 

[Indian Dan]

It's only the fans who have downgraded the competition. To all intents and purposes it's the Johnstones Paint Trophy.

Personally, I only count league games. The others are just fluff.

 

[ThisTinpotLeague]

It's only the fans who have downgraded the competition. To all intents and purposes it's the Johnstones Paint Trophy.

Only the fans? Why is football played?

 

[blademan89]

Are people still boycotting the games against fellow league 1 and 2 clubs. I refused to go and watch us play Leicesters reserves but what about walsall and grimsby or is it an all round boycott for the lot?

 

[Habbinalan]

Harvey's a deluded fool http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37544161

That about does it for me.

With the assurance that B Teams were out of any EFL re-jig, I was considering heading down the Abbey to see some of our youngsters (Foy, Horne and Thomas in particular) get a run out alongside Leon Legge and Brad Halliday (both will be suspended on saturday).

However, if there's a hint of a chance that Harvey will see my presence as part of a justification for his idiocy, I'll just have to be washing my hair tomorrow night.

 

[ThisTinpotLeague]

Are people still boycotting the games against fellow league 1 and 2 clubs. I refused to go and watch us play Leicesters reserves but what about walsall and grimsby or is it an all round boycott for the lot?

Think you've got to make up your own mind.

Personally, I fear that a high attendance will be used to defend the format no matter whether B teams are involved or not. Furthermore, I hate that my club voted for it and I want to make the message clear.

It seems like a lot of people involved in our supporters group ie the noisy element of our support will also be staying away. Expectation on our forum is that we will send a few hundred but the league game will be a rapid sell out, so it is relative.

 

[blademan89]

Think you've got to make up your own mind.

Personally, I fear that a high attendance will be used to defend the format no matter whether B teams are involved or not. Furthermore, I hate that my club voted for it and I want to make the message clear.

It seems like a lot of people involved in our supporters group ie the noisy element of our support will also be staying away. Expectation on our forum is that we will send a few hundred but the league game will be a rapid sell out, so it is relative.

Think we got 3.5k against Leicester I was hugely disappointed with how many went to that I was really hoping for a 1k crowd. In a way I hope we get a fair few more tommorrow against a fellow league one side which will sort of prove how much people are against the b sides. But on the other hand a full competition boycott is probably the right thing so no one turning up is the only way to make a point. People will always still go though.

 

[ThisTinpotLeague]

Think we got 3.5k against Leicester I was hugely disappointed with how many went to that I was really hoping for a 1k crowd. In a way I hope we get a fair few more tommorrow against a fellow league one side which will sort of prove how much people are against the b sides. But on the other hand a full competition boycott is probably the right thing so no one turning up is the only way to make a point. People will always still go though.

Absolutely. You'll never get an attendance of zero unless the clubs lock their gates. That doesn't mean your voice can't be heard.

I am truly confused by the sense of weary obligation and duty that some supporters give off. Going to football is a choice. It should be enjoyable and your club should respect your contribution. That's especially true at our level, where each season ticket really does count. The idea that supporters can't change anything or that our clubs are unstoppable corporate powerhouses has no real grounding and isn't replicated elsewhere.

Your point about a higher attendance for a game between two proper clubs is fair enough. I certainly won't fall out with people over the choice they make.

All I'll say is that I could certainly imagine a situation where those in charge say "x thousand people attended games in the group stage" and make no reference to the B team/real team split. Indeed, I believe someone just posted a link to Harvey doing precisely that. Alternatively, he might say "team X and Y got a crowd of 10k. There's plenty of support and we could make it work if we got the bigger B teams involved". Then we repeat the effort.

I feel passionately about this and I want it ended fast, so I'll stay away altogether.

 

[Big Bird]

Very tempted by tomorrow but won't be going.

 

[eric read]

Not tempted, and not going.

Only game against the scum I think I've ever missed.

 

[Agombar stool]

Not tempted, and not going.

Only game against the scum I think I've ever missed.

Fair play Eric.

 

[Indian Dan]

I'm teetering on the edge and ready to get my '1 in a row' T-shirt

 

[Camdenite]

We've sold 112 tickets for Posh tomorrow night. Probably an attendance of 150 or so from us. The fact it's Posh will have tempted a few, especially the ones from up Bedford way (it's almost halfway between the two grounds) but it's difficult to gauge what we would have had if it had been last season*. I'm guessing 500 or so if the prices were the same.

*-or the season before when we were actually in the competition!

Anyway, my take on it, is that we've all done enough already damage to this competition in this format and we'll see a return to its normal entry list next season. The issue was finding a sponsor, and that £1M carrot dangled was in the absence of Checkatrade. Hopefully it's not the issue it was now.

We had KR lambasting it today on our Player channel and when club managers are coming out stating that it's a waste of time then that'll help focus minds on getting a workable alternative. I broadly agree that something needed to be done to the old format as it wasn't working for the vast majority of clubs, but they need to look at other options. My guess would be retaining the regional group structure but playing all the games within a two week period pre-season. How you then space the knockout game is debatable but doing it after we've nearly all been knocked out of the League Cup (say after round 4) makes sense in terms of fixture congestion.

 

[ThisTinpotLeague]

I'm teetering on the edge and ready to get my '1 in a row' T-shirt

T-shirt?? Be a man and get it tattooed first thing tomorrow.

 

[Meadow]

Are people still boycotting the games against fellow league 1 and 2 clubs. I refused to go and watch us play Leicesters reserves but what about walsall and grimsby or is it an all round boycott for the lot?

With Harvey coming out with statements like that, it's a boycott for me. The club and trust came out with a statement suggesting a boycott against Swansea U23's but attendance against Plymouth. I need to take a stand though so I'll steward as normal and head home after my shift finishes just after kick-off. Yes, I want us to do well but I'm unlikely to attend any trophy matches.

 

[shoddycollins]

That about does it for me.

With the assurance that B Teams were out of any EFL re-jig, I was considering heading down the Abbey to see some of our youngsters (Foy, Horne and Thomas in particular) get a run out alongside Leon Legge and Brad Halliday (both will be suspended on saturday).

However, if there's a hint of a chance that Harvey will see my presence as part of a justification for his idiocy, I'll just have to be washing my hair tomorrow night.

Giving the winners entry to the second round of the League Cup is the most laughable suggestion I've ever seen, though admittedly it didn't come from Harvey himself. That's a proper Bullseye prize that is. I don't really see us taking, if offered, the chance to bypass knocking Port Vale out at Brunton Park and instead skip straight to the bit where Derby knock us out at Pride Park.

He may deny that introducing B teams into the league is still on the cards, yet his arguments that

• 'We take a more holistic view. English football, collectively, needs to try to find solutions to problems facing the whole game, not just one section of it.' and,
• We wanted to create the opportunity for younger players at Category One academy clubs, ...* to gain valuable experience in senior football

Are the exact same arguments he used to support B-teams, so proving them must ergo be seen by the EFL as proof-of-concept to having them in the league itself.

*where I've skipped a bit of his quote, he added 'and, indeed, our clubs'. I skipped over it because the notion that getting the chance to play Blackburn's under 21 side provides any value whatsoever to a senior League 1/2 player is so ludicrous that the fact he said it at all should be seen as nothing but a distraction.

He states several times how more fans attended this season than last season, conveniently ignoring the fact there have been twice the number of games played, the man is clearly an idiot. Are Carlisle a bigger team than Man U because more fans attended Carlisle games during 2015/16 than attended Man U v Swansea last season?

When asked if it matters that the biggest Premiership clubs declined to compete he says 'The majority of younger players in the England team have had experience at an EFL club in one form or another.'... So what's the fucking point then? Surely he's just undermined the whole 'invite youth teams from bigger clubs to compete to give future England internationals more experience' argument by saying that actually most of them gained experience by actually playing for a football league club. Alan Shearer actually showed a graphic of where England (and Wales) players had played their academy football on MOTD and it was indeed a total mix of teams, not just, or even largely top teams I quote Harvey in saying '14 of the England squad at Euro 2016 came through EFL academies. In a squad of 23'.

He acknowledges, as he has before, that the prospect of two academy teams reaching the final would be disappointing, but justifies this by saying that the prospect of two football league teams reaching the FA cup final is the same and would be disappointing for the FA. No it fucking isn't, there is a whole load of difference between:
a) a competition run for the whole of English football to compete and a competition specifically created to give teams from the bottom two divisions a chance of playing at Wembley.
b) a senior team from a lower devision, and an academy team
c) The FA, which despite appearances doesn't exist primarily to support Premier League football, an the Football League which DOES exist primarily to support football at the three divisions beneath the Premier League.

 

[Camborne Gills]

and Bullys special prize.....................................two tickets in the hospitality suite for the Chelsea v West Brom U23 final

 

[Kim Mitten]

Harvey seems not to mention anywhere in that piece the reason given by Southend's chief exec as to why the club voted yes to trying out this format - To attempt to make this competition financially viable to the clubs playing in it.

I can only go from old information that I was told by a previous Southend chief exec back in 2009. I inquired, because of the amount of money being lost by the club, what the break even figure was for games at Roots Hall. He told me (at then ticket prices) it was 6500-7000. He then went on to say, without further questioning from me, that the JPT was a complete waste of time for the club unless they got to the area final, which was televised and even then might not make up for the earlier incurred losses if you'd been at home every round.

So skip forward to 2016, Southend's chief exec says the options were scrapping the competition altogether or trying something to get a revenue stream. I'm doubting the upped prize money covered the losses incurred for Southend to host Brighton's yoofs, or the loss they will incur for hosting Leyton Orient.
If they get through the group they'll obviously be hoping for an away tie. Hopefully getting no further and thus marking down the Checkatrade as another bust. The powers at Southend will head to the next meeting and say - yeah didn't work, we've still lost more cash that we could afford.

I'm kinda hoping all 4 area finalists are U23 teams, because then the L1/2 sides will have all made a nice loss on this farce and we won't be seeing it played out again.

 

[genesimmons]

We've sold 112 tickets for Posh tomorrow night. Probably an attendance of 150 or so from us. The fact it's Posh will have tempted a few, especially the ones from up Bedford way (it's almost halfway between the two grounds) but it's difficult to gauge what we would have had if it had been last season*. I'm guessing 500 or so if the prices were the same.

*-or the season before when we were actually in the competition!

Anyway, my take on it, is that we've all done enough already damage to this competition in this format and we'll see a return to its normal entry list next season. The issue was finding a sponsor, and that £1M carrot dangled was in the absence of Checkatrade. Hopefully it's not the issue it was now.

We had KR lambasting it today on our Player channel and when club managers are coming out stating that it's a waste of time then that'll help focus minds on getting a workable alternative. I broadly agree that something needed to be done to the old format as it wasn't working for the vast majority of clubs, but they need to look at other options. My guess would be retaining the regional group structure but playing all the games within a two week period pre-season. How you then space the knockout game is debatable but doing it after we've nearly all been knocked out of the League Cup (say after round 4) makes sense in terms of fixture congestion.

Cant argue with that. I also think county cups should be played pre season too

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

 

[shoddycollins]

Harvey seems not to mention anywhere in that piece the reason given by Southend's chief exec as to why the club voted yes to trying out this format - To attempt to make this competition financially viable to the clubs playing in it.

I can only go from old information that I was told by a previous Southend chief exec back in 2009. I inquired, because of the amount of money being lost by the club, what the break even figure was for games at Roots Hall. He told me (at then ticket prices) it was 6500-7000. He then went on to say, without further questioning from me, that the JPT was a complete waste of time for the club unless they got to the area final, which was televised and even then might not make up for the earlier incurred losses if you'd been at home every round.

So skip forward to 2016, Southend's chief exec says the options were scrapping the competition altogether or trying something to get a revenue stream. I'm doubting the upped prize money covered the losses incurred for Southend to host Brighton's yoofs, or the loss they will incur for hosting Leyton Orient.
If they get through the group they'll obviously be hoping for an away tie. Hopefully getting no further and thus marking down the Checkatrade as another bust. The powers at Southend will head to the next meeting and say - yeah didn't work, we've still lost more cash that we could afford.

I'm kinda hoping all 4 area finalists are U23 teams, because then the L1/2 sides will have all made a nice loss on this farce and we won't be seeing it played out again.

I think if making sure the competition was an earner for all clubs who entered was the only way they'd want it then the competition is doomed. There is just no way that a cup competition for lower league clubs was ever going to attract more than a handful of fans for the opening rounds. It has to be accepted that the entire concept of the competition is going to cost money to run and either we can't afford it and have to scrap it or we find the money from somewhere, but the money would have to come from somewhere else, no amount of tinkering with the format or the teams allowed in, even if there weren't boycotts is going to make it a money spinner.

 

[LS Bantam]

Bury at home, a chance to give a run out to the first teamers not getting game time, Nathan Clarke, McArdle, Kilgallon... So from that point of view tonight hasn't come at too bad a time, expect the rest to be filled in by unknown kids

 

[T.A]

We've got a lot of people out and I know we're resting a few players as well. I'll be surprised if we get anything out of it.

 

[bantamigo]

We've got a lot of people out and I know we're resting a few players as well. I'll be surprised if we get anything out of it.

Wouldn't be surprised with any result, sounds like we are both treating it as a reserve game.

We had 3 apprentices playing their first senior game in the game against Stoke, McCall couldn't even be arsed managing it so let Kenny Black do it and we played the last 10 minutes with 10 men because Darby came off tired and we'd made all three subs. I hope shit like that is getting noted down and sent to Harvey.

 

[valefan16]

Six changes tonight and considering it's advertised as giving young English players a chance our line up:

Santos
Purkiss
Smith
Mac-Intosch
Kiko
Tavares
Perreira
Hart
Amoros
Jones
Cicilia

Only four British players start!

 

[ThisTinpotLeague]

Bradford keeper subbed off after two minutes

Those who created this tournament without four seconds of thought for the supporters should be fucking embarrassed.

 

[F!RTHY]

2-0 HT at Valley Parade.

Pretty comfortable first half. 8 changes from Sat - with Josh Cullen on international duty and Doyle being subbed after 2 mins.

GK: Rouen Satimiler

RB: Stephen Darby
CB: Rory McArdle
CB: Nathan Clarke
LB: Matt Killgalon

CDM: Danny Devine
CDM: Timotheé Dieng

RCM: Vincent Rabiega
CAM: Harris Vučkić
LCM: Felipe Morais

ST: Jordi Hiwula

 

[Buxton Vale]

1025 at Vale Park

 

[blademan89]

936 at Kingsmeadow

Isn't that double last game?

 

[AnotherSaddler]

I'm hoping Everton get to the final on the 2nd of April.
Liverpool v Everton is the scheduled Premier League fixture that weekend and I think it's likely it'll be moved to Sunday for the Sky Camera's.

It would be a joy to see Everton with a grand total of Nil supporters at Wembley because there is no way any Everton fan would choose to watch the Checkatrade Final instead of a Merseyside Derby.

It would just highlight what a joke this competition is

 

[blademan89]

Yeah. Club actively discouraged fans from attending the Swansea game but not so much activity around this one

2619 at bramall lane which I'm delighted about. 1000 less than the Leicester game but I think the message to not go has become clearer this time around. I'd be guessing but I'd guess that could be our lowest ever crowd