European Union Referendum

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41027671

JFC

 

[.V.]

Such arrogance.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonar...cate-the-eus?utm_term=.rnWeRBZvYe#.rnWeRBZvYe

 

[smat]

Juncker has called the UK's papers "not satisfactory" and the government has said the EU needs to show "more imagination and flexibility". Normal negotiation pressure from both sides, or is it falling apart at the seams and careening towards no deal?

Also interesting that Labour have adopted a softer approach, backing a potentially long transitional process and leaving Single Market/customs union membership on the table. They still emphasised migration controls though, which would surely preclude Single Market membership.

 

[.V.]

I really can't stand Liam Fox. The EU want to sort out the divorce bill and citizens rights, which is to be expected. It's almost as if we're negotiating from a position of weakness, who'd have thought it.

The Brexiteers continue to blame the EU without looking at their own failings. They'll never accept that they were wrong, it'll always be the EUs fault. Tossers.

 

[Laker]

Whip out that cheque book, the money pit needs another €100bn. The EU's stance proves to me what a bunch of snakes they are.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

I really can't stand Liam Fox. The EU want to sort out the divorce bill and citizens rights, which is to be expected. It's almost as if we're negotiating from a position of weakness, who'd have thought it.

The Brexiteers continue to blame the EU without looking at their own failings. They'll never accept that they were wrong, it'll always be the EUs fault. Tossers.

They don't care about such noble topics as citizen's rights V, that's naive.
No, they just want as many billions as they can get away with, to delay the budget shortfall the EU27 will have to eventually cover or cuts they'll have to make. And that'd be fine, if Article 50 made clear in black and white that invoking it will cost X amount. But it doesn't, they've just plucked a number out of thin air, and we've shown that their number has zero legal foundation to it.

It's all about money at the end of the day. It's a negotiation and at this point a haggle, as crude at it sounds.

 

[mowgli]

I really can't stand Liam Fox. The EU want to sort out the divorce bill and citizens rights, which is to be expected. It's almost as if we're negotiating from a position of weakness, who'd have thought it.

The Brexiteers continue to blame the EU without looking at their own failings. They'll never accept that they were wrong, it'll always be the EUs fault. Tossers.

We should refuse to pay anything until the leaving bill from The EU has been itemised but it won't happen as nobody has ever seen their accounts which have never been signed off.They even want us to pay for things 2 years after we leave but why should British taxpayers pay for anything after we've left?

 

[smat]

b-b-but the german car manufacturers

 

[.V.]

They don't care about such noble topics as citizen's rights V, that's naive.
No, they just want as many billions as they can get away with, to delay the budget shortfall the EU27 will have to eventually cover or cuts they'll have to make. And that'd be fine, if Article 50 made clear in black and white that invoking it will cost X amount. But it doesn't, they've just plucked a number out of thin air, and we've shown that their number has zero legal foundation to it.

It's all about money at the end of the day. It's a negotiation and at this point a haggle, as crude at it sounds.

You don't think they care about the welfare of their own people? They're part of a collective and for Portugal and Poland, among others, who have a significant number of their citizens here, it matters.

A divorce bill was always on the cards given the way finances are planned in Brussels, and given they are the gatekeepers to the single market, we were always going to have meet the shortfall caused by our departure, before we talked trade.

Brexiteers are leading us down a path which will lead to significant damage to our economy, and instead of owning it they're blaming the EU for looking after their members interests, which is the whole point of the institution. Fucking own the balls up.

 

[smat]

Brexiteers are leading us down a path which will lead to significant damage to our economy, and instead of owning it they're blaming the EU for looking after their members interests, which is the whole point of the institution. Fucking own the balls up.

If 1FF is anything to go by, Liam Fox and David Davis will delete their accounts soon.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

You don't think they care about the welfare of their own people? They're part of a collective and for Portugal and Poland, among others, who have a significant number of their citizens here, it matters.

A divorce bill was always on the cards given the way finances are planned in Brussels, and given they are the gatekeepers to the single market, we were always going to have meet the shortfall caused by our departure, before we talked trade.

Brexiteers are leading us down a path which will lead to significant damage to our economy, and instead of owning it they're blaming the EU for looking after their members interests, which is the whole point of the institution. Fucking own the balls up.

Yeah, the notion that they don't look after their citizens interests is quite funny really. I mean, it's probably fair to suggest that not all EU initiatives put the European citizen first, but I think there has to be some level of realisation that this is actually a bloc attempting to preserve the interests of 27 other member countries. There seems to be this weird belief that it's incumbent upon them to make the divorce process easy. It's not. Us remoaners warned that we weren't in a very strong negotiating position but the Brexiteers repeatedly tried to tell us otherwise. Chickens coming home to roost, innit.

 

[smat]

Brexiters sure do idolise German car manufacturers. They're constantly going on about how they're going to save us all in these talks.

But do you know who else was a big German car manufacturer?

That's right.

Adolf Hitler.

 

[Laker]

Adolf Hitler made cars? You learn something new every day.

The remainer view seems to be "our negotiation position is weak so we shouldn't leave". Really selling the case for staying there chaps.....!

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Yes, he did, but, in truth, he didn't achieve a great deal of success in the industry. Although the cars were structurally sound, he got the dimensions all wrong, as is evident from the above photograph (you can see all the onlookers thinking "how do we tell him?"). As such, they could only be driven by small rodents. Hitler did try to offload the stock but sadly, apart from a few affluent hamsters seeking an upgrade on their wheel, there really wasn't much of a customer base there. These were difficult economic times, remember, so most rats, mice and gerbils simply didn't have the means to purchase a vehicle. They also didn't possess driving licences. Some claim he was quite a sane man before all this unfolded and the whole failed venture drove him over the edge!!!

 

[smat]

Yes, he did, but, in truth, he didn't achieve a great deal of success in the industry. Although the cars were structurally sound, he got the dimensions all wrong, as is evident from the above photograph (you can see all the onlookers thinking "how do we tell him?"). As such, they could only be driven by small rodents. Hitler did try to offload the stock but sadly, apart from a few affluent hamsters seeking an upgrade on their wheel, there really wasn't much of a customer base there. These were difficult economic times, remember, so most rats, mice and gerbils simply didn't have the means to purchase a vehicle. They also didn't possess driving licences. Some claim he was quite a sane man before all this unfolded and the whole failed venture drove him over the edge!!!

The car, in fact, is life-sized. Its driver is passing Nazi Germany's own version of Mount Rushmore. But you won't read about that in the Murdoch press.

 

[.V.]

The car, in fact, is life-sized. It's driver is passing Nazi Germany's own version of Mount Rushmore. But you won't read about that in the Murdoch press.

Damn MSM *shakes fist*

 

[.V.]

Adolf Hitler made cars? You learn something new every day.

The remainer view seems to be "our negotiation position is weak so we shouldn't leave". Really selling the case for staying there chaps.....!

Seems reasonable to me; being unable to negotiate a deal in our favour will lead to us being in a worse position than if we'd stayed.

https://amp.theguardian.com/comment...-that-brexit-would-be-easy-is-costing-us-dear

Given that the cabinet can't agree what Britain should look like post Brexit, it hardly fills one with positivity. Surely even that concerns you?

 

[Laker]

Seems reasonable to me; being unable to negotiate a deal in our favour will lead to us being in a worse position than if we'd stayed.

https://amp.theguardian.com/comment...-that-brexit-would-be-easy-is-costing-us-dear

Given that the cabinet can't agree what Britain should look like post Brexit, it hardly fills one with positivity. Surely even that concerns you?

No it just says, we want to change something but are scared to do anything about it - it lacks ambition.

I don't get "concerned" as such by things I can't control directly. I have my own view on what I want from Brexit but the core principals of not free movement and the most open trade position possible with that restriction on free movement is clearly the aim. And I'd add that I wouldn't be happy with us paying a figure which appears to be plucked out of the sky. But since our cabinet seem to agree on those points (and I accept they disagree on the "how" at the moment), I wouldn't say I'm concerned at all.

 

[Aber gas]

 

[.V.]

No it just says, we want to change something but are scared to do anything about it - it lacks ambition.

I don't get "concerned" as such by things I can't control directly. I have my own view on what I want from Brexit but the core principals of not free movement and the most open trade position possible with that restriction on free movement is clearly the aim. And I'd add that I wouldn't be happy with us paying a figure which appears to be plucked out of the sky. But since our cabinet seem to agree on those points (and I accept they disagree on the "how" at the moment), I wouldn't say I'm concerned at all.

It's not a lack of ambition, I would rather we drive policy in the EU, playing a key role in leading it.

 

[.V.]

View attachment 7035

This sums things up rather nicely.

 

[silkyman]

No it just says, we want to change something but are scared to do anything about it - it lacks ambition.

I don't get "concerned" as such by things I can't control directly. I have my own view on what I want from Brexit but the core principals of not free movement and the most open trade position possible with that restriction on free movement is clearly the aim. And I'd add that I wouldn't be happy with us paying a figure which appears to be plucked out of the sky. But since our cabinet seem to agree on those points (and I accept they disagree on the "how" at the moment), I wouldn't say I'm concerned at all.

So basically, you don't care as long as there's fewer forrins?

Bollocks to the economy, because you don't like Belgians?

 

[silkyman]

Brexiters sure do idolise German car manufacturers. They're constantly going on about how they're going to save us all in these talks.

But do you know who else was a big German car manufacturer?

That's right.

Adolf Hitler.

German car manufacturer's fears over Brexit is so HUGE and all encompassing, that Brexit wasn't mentioned once during the German leadership debate this evening,

 

[silkyman]

So, Brexit Backers... A few pretty valid questions here.

Why does nothing seem to be happening?

https://twitter.com/rjonesux/status/905822287471005697

This is your mess. Why aren't you doing anything?

 

[.V.]

So, Brexit Backers... A few pretty valid questions here.

Why does nothing seem to be happening?

https://twitter.com/rjonesux/status/905822287471005697

This is your mess. Why aren't you doing anything?

It's the horrid EUs fault Doesn't matter how badly things go, they'll never accept responsibility for fucking things up.

 

[Laker]

So, Brexit Backers... A few pretty valid questions here.

Why does nothing seem to be happening?

https://twitter.com/rjonesux/status/905822287471005697

This is your mess. Why aren't you doing anything?

Funny enough, none of us are in a position of influence of power to do anything. Not sure if you quite understand how our political system works?

 

[TheMinsterman]

Funny enough, none of us are in a position of influence of power to do anything. Not sure if you quite understand how our political system works?

So your plan was to back a huge uprooting in the political landscape and subsequently trust the Tory party to implement it competently under a Prime Minister with no credibility and plenty of MPs with no enthusiasm for the process in the first place who are only going ahead with it because they're terrified if they don't they'll be permanently tarred with "defying the will of the people" and they'd rather destroy the country for generations instead?

 

[Laker]

So your plan was to back a huge uprooting in the political landscape and subsequently trust the Tory party to implement it competently under a Prime Minister with no credibility and plenty of MPs with no enthusiasm for the process in the first place who are only going ahead with it because they're terrified if they don't they'll be permanently tarred with "defying the will of the people" and they'd rather destroy the country for generations instead?

No I voted Labour. But there you go, pigeon hole me how you like.

 

[mowgli]

Perhaps if Cameron hadn't buggered off because he lost or had a plan B in case we voted to leave we wouldn't be where we are now. Him and Osbourne were so sure we wouldn't vote to leave they had nothing in place when we didn't vote how they wanted us to, all they did was spread project fear with Carney telling us every family will lose around £4,000 and unemployment will soar when it's still breaking records for being at it's lowest since 1975. I hate the Tories but just want them to get Brexit sorted. I doubt it helps that we have a drunken Juncker and the man who wants his job when he stands down in 2 years Barnier who is using these discussions to his own ends and trying to make sure nobody else has the balls to leave after we prove we can prosper after Brexit.

 

[TheMinsterman]

No I voted Labour. But there you go, pigeon hole me how you like.

You voted Brexit under a Tory government, they were, pre-May's snap election, going to be in place to begin the implementation (and still are post May's calamity anyway).

So, no. I haven't pigeon holed you. You voted to leave knowing these were the people who'd most likely be implementing it.