European Union Referendum

[PuB]

Utter nonsense.

If article 50 was revoked it could be immediately implemented after, starting the process again. It would mean the death of any political party who did it though.

As would be ignoring the outcome of the referendum.

What could be dragged on for years on end is May's deal, which effectively locks us in to the EU until such a point as they see fit to let us leave. That's why it's so bad.

 

[Gladders]

These peoples vote remoaners seem to want the question to be remain or mays deal as well, as that's the only way they will win it.

If it ever happened it should be the same as before leave or stay. Not take a shit deal or stay.

 

[PuB]

The question on the ballot paper would be decided by the independent electoral commission. Not by politicians or any political party.

 

[Super_horns]

Well the Government have dismissed the idea of revoking Article 50..

Which probably means they will try to if all else fails ..

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1110962467000209409

This is so pathetic and transparent. If the Tories openly go for this then they shouldn't be able to survive as a party.

 

[Laker]

They’re gonna go for this fucking deal aren’t they? Potentially stuck tied to the EU forever on poorer terms and at a cost of £39m. It’s a dreadful deal but these self-interested bastards are going to put this thing through just to save their party.

Brexit but not Brexit. What a terrible day if/when this gets through.

 

[Laker]

Our parliament is having a laugh. They voted no to every amendment. Can we just ask the queen to disband it now?

 

[jacobncfc]

Our parliament are having a laugh. They voted no to every amendment. Can we just ask the queen to disband it now?

Interestingly, and kind of tragically, Sky did a poll on each of the options today as well, and the 'public' rejected all of them apart from another referendum. Quite what they would be voting for in that I don't know.

 

[Laker]

Interestingly, and kind of tragically, Sky did a poll on each of the options today as well, and the 'public' rejected all of them apart from another referendum. Quite what they would be voting for in that I don't know.

Yep, that’s the problem with a second referendum - is it No deal v May’s deal or remain v May’s deal or even remain v No deal? Stick all three on a card and I’d be surprised if any got more than 50% (ie majority to leave but no one knows how).

I wanted a decent withdrawal agreement but I’m at the point of no deal or extend for two years with a general election to elect a fair chunk of these scrotes out and to get parties to be elected by the public on their version of Brexit. The current house is incapable of delivering Brexit.

Edit: I imagine part of the reason people want a referendum because they don’t trust parliament to do anything as it stands.

 

[jacobncfc]

Yep, that’s the problem with a second referendum - is it No deal v May’s deal or remain v May’s deal or even remain v No deal? Stick all three on a card and I’d be surprised if any got more than 50% (ie majority to leave but no one knows how).

I wanted a decent withdrawal agreement but I’m at the point of no deal or extend for two years with a general election to elect a fair chunk of these scrotes out and to get parties to be elected by the public on their version of Brexit. The current house is incapable of delivering Brexit.

Edit: I imagine part of the reason people want a referendum because they don’t trust parliament to do anything as it stands.

I think we're in the basically hilarious position where a straight remain vs. leave rerun would see leave win again. If it was remain vs. any conceivable leave option that actually exists, remain would win. What a time to be alive.

You could maybe do one of those funky transferrable vote things with no deal vs. the deal vs. remain and end up with a winner on second preferences.

 

[Laker]

I think we're in the basically hilarious position where a straight remain vs. leave rerun would see leave win again. If it was remain vs. any conceivable leave option that actually exists, remain would win. What a time to be alive.

You could maybe do one of those funky transferrable vote things with no deal vs. the deal vs. remain and end up with a winner on second preferences.

It’s just insane, I don’t think anyone envisaged a total balls up like this.

I guess you could do that but then we had the referendum a few years ago to reject Alternative Vote so it’s sort of lost its appeal.

Everything seems to be hopeless except delay and GE from what I can see.

 

[jacobncfc]

I have consistently not liked the idea of another referendum, I struggle to see what good can come of it, but I'm not sure there's any other way that this can be solved. Even if we just go straight remain vs. no deal.

Would a general election help? Both parties are so divided that they could barely put forward a coherent manifesto pledge on it, and I reckon the numbers would end up being about the same as they are, if not even more of a messy hung parliament. I certainly can't see either party putting something forward and getting a decisive victory out of it.

 

[Laker]

I have consistently not liked the idea of another referendum, I struggle to see what good can come of it, but I'm not sure there's any other way that this can be solved. Even if we just go straight remain vs. no deal.

Would a general election help? Both parties are so divided that they could barely put forward a coherent manifesto pledge on it, and I reckon the numbers would end up being about the same as they are, if not even more of a messy hung parliament. I certainly can't see either party putting something forward and getting a decisive victory out of it.

I think I want an election out of hope and vindictiveness as much as anything - I’m exasperated with our MPs as much as anything. But I think it would achieve three things:
1. It would, I would hope, force the main two parties (at least) to put a Brexit plan in their manifesto for people to vote for or against so public view is represented again in parliament.
2. It would also give the public an opportunity to stand as independents or for minor parties and for others to vote against the main parties. A bit of anarchy if you like. I’m not foolish enough to think Tory or Labour wouldn’t still be the largest parties but there would hopefully be a few more freethinking MPs who would vote on motions for the good of the country rather than the good of their party.
3. Frankly we need a shake up of the MPs in parliament as the current dynamic can’t reach a conclusion. A change gives a better hope of them finding a majority on something.

This runs the risk of a labour government which scares me frankly but at least the concept of democracy remains.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

I think No Deal is the best way forward right now. We've seen how the EU negotiate when the Tories bare their arse, let's see how they negotiate when they have a £39bn budget deficit to try and cover, not to mention a mulltitude of other problems to contend with. The truth is that the EU can make loads more concession without the deal coming close to hurting them more than it helps them, but so far they've had little reason to.

 

[HarryH]

I have consistently not liked the idea of another referendum, I struggle to see what good can come of it, but I'm not sure there's any other way that this can be solved. Even if we just go straight remain vs. no deal.

Would a general election help? Both parties are so divided that they could barely put forward a coherent manifesto pledge on it, and I reckon the numbers would end up being about the same as they are, if not even more of a messy hung parliament. I certainly can't see either party putting something forward and getting a decisive victory out of it.

I think I want an election out of hope and vindictiveness as much as anything - I’m exasperated with our MPs as much as anything. But I think it would achieve three things:
1. It would, I would hope, force the main two parties (at least) to put a Brexit plan in their manifesto for people to vote for or against so public view is represented again in parliament.
2. It would also give the public an opportunity to stand as independents or for minor parties and for others to vote against the main parties. A bit of anarchy if you like. I’m not foolish enough to think Tory or Labour wouldn’t still be the largest parties but there would hopefully be a few more freethinking MPs who would vote on motions for the good of the country rather than the good of their party.
3. Frankly we need a shake up of the MPs in parliament as the current dynamic can’t reach a conclusion. A change gives a better hope of them finding a majority on something.

This runs the risk of a labour government which scares me frankly but at least the concept of democracy remains.

I don't disagree that an election looks more likely by the day but the decision makers know that it would be mayhem for both parties, especially the Tories. For it to happen we'd depend on turkeys voting for ...............armageddon?

It's clear why the disaster capitalists were almost swayed to get behind May's deal. It looked like their last chance to avoid EU regulations on their finances.

 

[Laker]

I don't disagree that an election looks more likely by the day but the decision makers know that it would be mayhem for both parties, especially the Tories. For it to happen we'd depend on turkeys voting for ...............armageddon?

It's clear why the disaster capitalists were almost swayed to get behind May's deal. It looked like their last chance to avoid EU regulations on their finances.



View attachment 10650

Oh I agree that it would take the Tories voting against their own interests to bring a GE forward. I just don’t see how a referendum will help as they won’t agree on the question and the current parliament dynamic is incapable of reaching a majority on anything.

 

[Fompous Part]

Happy (would have been) Brexit Day, everybody!

 

[PuB]

What did you do for Brexit day?

I flipped a finger in the direction of Johnny Foreigner then repeatedly punched myself in the face.

Magical scenes.

 

[Fompous Part]

I drank (a lot) and pondered the fact that we’re now living in an unending episode of The Thick of It. I also had an argument with a published author about their flagrant misuse of semicolons.

Pretty typical day, really.

 

[Fompous Part]

This has aged well...

 

[PuB]

This has aged well too

 

[Fompous Part]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47781009

 

[Super_horns]

Just the 4 options rejected tonight.

 

[Laker]

Lol just watched a Tory resignation live on air. Nicholas Boles just resigned in the HoC.

Our parliament is amazing, we’ve got no deal or revoke left as far as I can see.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

for all the crap the tories deserve at the moment the others ain't any better.

Labour are just voting totally political to try and force a general election with zero care of what the hell they vote for.

the SNP again as per the norm....blah blah blah Scotland this, blah blah Scotland that, blah blah we never get listened to etc, etc (put on constant loop for 50,000 years

add in your independent group/lib dem and the so-called 'peoples vote'............well as long as the people's choices are remain or....remain as the people cannot choose leave.

you have your group of no deal or nothing on the other side.

it should have been done a year back no whips allowed free votes for all MP's, Remain and no deal completely taken off the table with no option of either............probably then we'd find some common ground.

Now i'd say maybe only hope would be a referendum with mays deal, no deal or maybe a softer brexit then let people choose it (remain off)

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Taking No Deal off the table is lunacy.

 

[PuB]

No deal is well and truly still on the table.

 

[Super_horns]

And the EU have said it's most likely ..

 

[Laker]

I think revoke or extend for a couple of years are the most likely option personally. The only way I can see no deal happening is if the EU get so pissed off with parliament that they refuse to extend and our HoC doesn’t get itself organised quickly enough to revoke. That’s entirely feasible mind given the joke we’ve witnessed in 2019.

 

[AnotherStagsFan]

for all the crap the tories deserve at the moment the others ain't any better.

Labour are just voting totally political to try and force a general election with zero care of what the hell they vote for.

the SNP again as per the norm....blah blah blah Scotland this, blah blah Scotland that, blah blah we never get listened to etc, etc (put on constant loop for 50,000 years

add in your independent group/lib dem and the so-called 'peoples vote'............well as long as the people's choices are remain or....remain as the people cannot choose leave.

you have your group of no deal or nothing on the other side.

it should have been done a year back no whips allowed free votes for all MP's, Remain and no deal completely taken off the table with no option of either............probably then we'd find some common ground.

Now i'd say maybe only hope would be a referendum with mays deal, no deal or maybe a softer brexit then let people choose it (remain off)

You cannot give the option for No deal unless you actually tell people what it means. It would make the social divide multiply.

No doubt if that ever happened Farage, Boris and co would bring out the bus of lies again.

Soft brexit is the only option as that was the only brexit possible. The elite lied and the public believed.