European Union Referendum

[CEngelbrecht]

European landmarks light up with the Union Jack to show Remain support | Business Insider
EU landmarks lit up with pro-REMAIN messages as Europe makes desperate bid to sway Britain | Express

Warsaw, Poland

L'Eiffel

Sorry, I'm not here.

 

[Benji]

Don't forget it's referendum happy hour between 11am and 12pm. Votes count for double.

 

[Abertawe]

Aber mate you're too rose tinted. Yes the majority may work but when you have 1000's of young lads coming over there are gonna be issues. Same as if 1000's of British males went abroad. Boys will be boys except the eastern Europeans hail from a much harsher environment.

Llanelli for instance, a pretty big town Welsh standards, is chock-a-block with boisterous twenty something Poles who roam the town centre in big groups pissed up out there heads and offer anyone to a fight for so much as a glance. Where I am now, Stockport, in specific parts of the town centre there are young eastern European males (I'd guess they're Polish) who congregate in groups to drink, sniff and provoke a fight. A work colleague of mine was shaken down and asked to fight not so long ago.

Immigration shouldn't result in ordinary folk being scared to walk about their town. We seem to have some myth in this country that if you work then you're alright. Well no, you can still be an absolute prick even if you do work. Many of these young lads that come over to earn better money, get pissed & cause a ruckus might be sound on a one-to-one basis but when they stick to their own (which is quite natural) and 'unwind' they're not conducive creating an environment that's nice to live in. The amount of serious gangsters hailing from Lithuania, Poland, Romania & Bulgaria making a killing (no pun) in the UK is staggering. It's not said but some of these guys are seriously nasty and are seemingly untouchable to our Police.

One of the worst things Blair ever did was to not invoke that veto but then he is a neo-liberal c*** to the core. He wanted to suppress wages (in some cases totally undercut the minimum wage) so that people of his ilk could cash in on the cheap labour. Apart from the rural picking areas it's utter shit that they do the jobs the British won't do. It's all part of the game. Have low skilled jobs essentially under the control of agencies, zero hour contracts etc. Make said low skilled jobs totally unworkable for someone permanently based in the UK but an easy way to earn some beer money for a young Pole on an 'extended holiday'. Until Labour has a serious look at itself (or we actually leave the EU, which we won't) they will continue to lose ground to UKIP in urban working class areas, in the north especially. UKIP addresses the issue and their message resonates which what were traditional labour strongholds. Labour under Blair & Brown abandoned their strongholds, towns & cities that always voted Labour were simply left to rot. Already poor areas were swamped with cheap labour and the job market was shrunk to even smaller levels and then to top it all the recession hit. I think it's pretty scandalous the way New Labour treated 'their' people and it's the reason why they'll do very well to get back in. UKIP will continue to grow because rightly or wrongly their message resonates with the traditional Labour strongholds. I reckon today we'll see these areas voting out.

 

[SUTSS]

"The Polish Problem" - don't think that's the best choice of words there.

 

[Abertawe]

Already reports of people being told to use the pencils provided.

 

[TractorBoys]

There is absolutely no legal obligation to use the one provided so let's nip that one in the bud.

 

[Abertawe]

Nip what? The majority are going to be cast in pencil, no?

Democracy, my arse. Leave can't happen and they'll make sure it won't happen.

 

[TractorBoys]

Jesus.

 

[TractorBoys]

Jean-Claude Juncker says no further renegotiation after EU referendum. PM "got the maximum he could receive" EC President says.

 

[blade1889]

Wouldn't it be easier for them to just spoil the Leave ballots if they were really going to do it

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

"The Polish Problem" - don't think that's the best choice of words there.

picked on purpose, yep it does link exactly to the past because sadly it highlights how fear can surge through general public and play right into hands of the extremes........its happening in many democracies right now and sadly most close eyes to it all.

Jews were not a problem in the 30s in Germany, poles are not a problem here now, but government must find a way to convince the growing general public of this and that we welcome them, but can control it.

Fear can be used as a way to stoke up people for causes and history has always had cases of specific groups used to do so......the current fear is 'too many' not an attack on people, but just 'too many' if we don't control it the fear will grow.

And it has caused problems, I am in a relationship with a Czech for 2 year who has been here 6 years, has a degree, but sometimes trying to just get an interview for a job for her......it is tough

 

[mowgli]

Went out and voted to leave. Whatever happens The EU will implode as Italy,Spain and Portugal have had enough with youth unemployment at 50%. I read this morning that is a huge support in France and Holland to have their own referendum now as well.I have no problem having a trade agreement with Europe but thats as far as it should go.I voted at the last general election for a government that should make our laws not one who gives in to every demand from unelected aloof clowns in Europe.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

It was said last night that in Holland 56% of people want a referendum (doesn't mean 56% want to leave, just that they want to vote about it)
Obviously National Front in France has been polling quite well for years now.

There will be other votes in other countries sooner or later, and we'll probably have to hear them go through the same scare mongering campaigns. Leaving Europe ever more peed off and divided.

 

[Renegade]

I saw one person under the age of about 70 at my polling station this morning, though as someone in the shoutbox pointed out it is working hours. Dispiriting. Can we not ban people who are likely to be dead before the effects of this referendum are actually known? #remainhitler

 

[CEngelbrecht]

I saw one person under the age of about 70 at my polling station this morning, though as someone in the shoutbox pointed out it is working hours. Dispiriting. Can we not ban people who are likely to be dead before the effects of this referendum are actually known?

Well... They might be prone to think of their children and grandchildren.

Incidentally, Dagens Nyheter's (Sweden) frontpage this Sunday:

(Headline: The election is a step into the unknown
Bylines:
Four days to go. Neck-and-neck in the shadow of murder
Annika Ström Melin: All of Europe will be affected
Katrine Marçal on rebellious Boris Johson)

 

[johnnytodd]

I voted leave but i'm not sure any Evertonians could bring themselves to vote for anything Red.

sorry UK.

 

[TractorBoys]

Wouldn't it be easier for them to just spoil the Leave ballots if they were really going to do it

It's funny as fuck hearing people suggest any underhand would be possible anyway. Campaigners from both sides are always in and around both the polling stations and the counting rooms... anything for a conspiracy but really this one only draws in the likes of people who's IQ is probably too low to put an X in the right box anyway!

 

[Veggie Legs]

Very busy at my polling station just now, although maybe just a rush while the rain holds off...

 

[Destruction]

Again, this strikes me as fear with very little rational thought behind it. There isn't a Polish problem, one of the most integrated and employed migrant communities in the country. They pay taxes here, make up a shortfall in skills and are less likely to use public services. Before I get dismissed as a "left wing nut job " or summat here's the blue dyed torygraph with some numbers.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...st-20pc-more-likely-to-work-than-Britons.html

From working in schools I can tell you the Polish children are a delight to teach. Polite, respectful and hard working. 99% of the time if you've got children that are disruptive and cause issues, they will be English. And that applies to their parents too.

Went out and voted to leave. Whatever happens The EU will implode as Italy,Spain and Portugal have had enough with youth unemployment at 50%. I read this morning that is a huge support in France and Holland to have their own referendum now as well.I have no problem having a trade agreement with Europe but thats as far as it should go.I voted at the last general election for a government that should make our laws not one who gives in to every demand from unelected aloof clowns in Europe.

Well unfortunately for you, if we want the trade, it only comes with free movement. You can't pick and choose.

I saw one person under the age of about 70 at my polling station this morning, though as someone in the shoutbox pointed out it is working hours. Dispiriting. Can we not ban people who are likely to be dead before the effects of this referendum are actually known? #remainhitler

It is a bit of a pisser that these old folks who don't like sitting on the bus hearing "forrin talk" get to vote (my Grandma is one and won't take any notice of what I tell her) when it isn't going to affect their life.

 

[NorfolkWomble]

Polish immigrants tend to integrate fine.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

It was said last night that in Holland 56% of people want a referendum (doesn't mean 56% want to leave, just that they want to vote about it)
Obviously National Front in France has been polling quite well for years now.

There will be other votes in other countries sooner or later, and we'll probably have to hear them go through the same scare mongering campaigns. Leaving Europe ever more peed off and divided.

I feel that regardless of the results tomorrow, the EU will fall soon. All the more reason for me for us to vote out to avoid going down with it, but there we are.

 

[CEngelbrecht]

I feel that regardless of the results tomorrow, the EU will fall soon. All the more reason for me for us to vote out to avoid going down with it, but there we are.

"And the good folk wept, and the wicked laughed."
- N. F. S. Grundvig

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Pound sterling hits a six month high against the US dollar. Clearly the banks know which way this is going

Does the accent matter? Hard working people. I'll declare an interest here, my grandfather was Polish. Came here to escape nazi oppression and fought for this country against the sort of bigotry that you're now displaying. We've always been a better country because of immigration culturally, economically and morally.

In moderation, yes. You're talking about a time when immigration was in the tens of thousands annually while we desperately needed warm bodies to help rebuild the country, not in a time of prosperity when we can barely keep numbers below a third of a million per year and have self-segregating communities popping up left, right and centre.

European landmarks light up with the Union Jack to show Remain support | Business Insider
EU landmarks lit up with pro-REMAIN messages as Europe makes desperate bid to sway Britain | Express

Warsaw, Poland

L'Eiffel

Sorry, I'm not here.

It's a funny gesture really. The Union flag is much more symbolic of Leave than Remain.

 

[mnb089mnb]

It's a funny gesture really. The Union flag is much more symbolic of Leave than Remain.

Not when it's "flown" in a different country. All about context, innit,

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Not when it's "flown" in a different country. All about context, innit,

That's obviously the intention, but looking at that makes me feel more emboldened about the UK than anything else. It certainly doesn't evoke any kind of solidarity with the EU.

 

[johnnytodd]

From working in schools I can tell you the Polish children are a delight to teach. Polite, respectful and hard working. 99% of the time if you've got children that are disruptive and cause issues, they will be English. And that applies to their parents too.



Well unfortunately for you, if we want the trade, it only comes with free movement. You can't pick and choose.



It is a bit of a pisser that these old folks who don't like sitting on the bus hearing "forrin talk" get to vote (my Grandma is one and won't take any notice of what I tell her) when it isn't going to affect their life.

If you hate our kids so much why not fook off to Poland ?

 

[SUTSS]

Pound sterling hits a six month high against the US dollar. Clearly the banks know which way this is going

Apparently a few of the big banks have commisioned private on the day polling. If the pollings right then the price of sterling of around 10pm will be a good indicator as to how today has gone.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

I agree with all points about polish workers being hard workers and good people.

Still for me doesn't change my view that the only reason we are here right now today is too many came over in a short space of time (all perfectly legally) and that has ended up pushing nearly half the population into the hands of the likes of ukip.

I don't want to say that, its wrong to say it, but the rise in ukip occurred at same time.

IF remain happens tomorrow the EU not the UK needs to reflect on these things if it wishes to keep together, freedom of movement to work is good, but we may have to introduce yearly limits to fend off further rises in worry, it is not just the uk which has grown these fears

 

[SUTSS]

I don't know if it is necessarily to do with the numbers but more to do with areas who have previously seen virutally no immigrant were seeing a decent level of it. I don't think it's much of a conicidence that Norfolk will have a lot of leave votes when over the last 5/10 years it has gone from virtually no immigration, even in Norwich itself, to having a still small but noticeable Eastern European population. This has also been combined with BME families moving in from other parts of the country and outside of it that has meant that Norfolk has changed quite considerably in that time. The raw numbers are small but it's the base they are coming from that make the change seem large.

I think there is also issues to do with people being left behind in the last 20/30 years that are really the key issues though. Get rid of immigrants and places like Yarmouth and Clacton and other UKIP hotbeds aren't going to magically be transformed to what they were.

 

[Aber gas]

Aber mate you're too rose tinted. Yes the majority may work but when you have 1000's of young lads coming over there are gonna be issues. Same as if 1000's of British males went abroad. Boys will be boys except the eastern Europeans hail from a much harsher environment.

Llanelli for instance, a pretty big town Welsh standards, is chock-a-block with boisterous twenty something Poles who roam the town centre in big groups pissed up out there heads and offer anyone to a fight for so much as a glance. Where I am now, Stockport, in specific parts of the town centre there are young eastern European males (I'd guess they're Polish) who congregate in groups to drink, sniff and provoke a fight. A work colleague of mine was shaken down and asked to fight not so long ago.

Immigration shouldn't result in ordinary folk being scared to walk about their town. We seem to have some myth in this country that if you work then you're alright. Well no, you can still be an absolute prick even if you do work. Many of these young lads that come over to earn better money, get pissed & cause a ruckus might be sound on a one-to-one basis but when they stick to their own (which is quite natural) and 'unwind' they're not conducive creating an environment that's nice to live in. The amount of serious gangsters hailing from Lithuania, Poland, Romania & Bulgaria making a killing (no pun) in the UK is staggering. It's not said but some of these guys are seriously nasty and are seemingly untouchable to our Police.

One of the worst things Blair ever did was to not invoke that veto but then he is a neo-liberal c*** to the core. He wanted to suppress wages (in some cases totally undercut the minimum wage) so that people of his ilk could cash in on the cheap labour. Apart from the rural picking areas it's utter shit that they do the jobs the British won't do. It's all part of the game. Have low skilled jobs essentially under the control of agencies, zero hour contracts etc. Make said low skilled jobs totally unworkable for someone permanently based in the UK but an easy way to earn some beer money for a young Pole on an 'extended holiday'. Until Labour has a serious look at itself (or we actually leave the EU, which we won't) they will continue to lose ground to UKIP in urban working class areas, in the north especially. UKIP addresses the issue and their message resonates which what were traditional labour strongholds. Labour under Blair & Brown abandoned their strongholds, towns & cities that always voted Labour were simply left to rot. Already poor areas were swamped with cheap labour and the job market was shrunk to even smaller levels and then to top it all the recession hit. I think it's pretty scandalous the way New Labour treated 'their' people and it's the reason why they'll do very well to get back in. UKIP will continue to grow because rightly or wrongly their message resonates with the traditional Labour strongholds. I reckon today we'll see these areas voting out.

That's a good post mate and I have heard the same arguments a lot. Even held them myself for a while but I suppose it's about experience and my experiences aren't the same as the ones you've portrayed. It's the same argument I've heard for decades but it seems to be just the faces that change. Irish, West Indians, south Asians , Somalians Polish , Jews. Doesn't seem to matter as long as we have somewhere to vent our frustrations about how shit our lives are. We look to differences between us rather than similarities and I'd rather show solidarity with migrant communities than blame them for the failings of successive corrupt, ineffectual and morally bankrupt governments.