European Union Referendum

[Gashead]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-michael-gove-eu-liars?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Thoughts?

The leave side's willingness for Cameron to oversee the exit was the clear indication of the above being true.

As I said earlier, I don't think any of them have a real plan, nor did they expect this result. That's the real worry for me.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

With all I know and have read about British history, how in the fuck can the Scouts be more internationally minded than the English?

We're the ones looking out into the wider world, it's you lot that are shrouding yourselves inside the European Union.

 

[mente captus]

We're the ones looking out into the wider world, it's you lot that are shrouding yourselves inside the European Union.

 

[CEngelbrecht]

Why are you so bothered? It doesn't affect you sod off, sounds like you wish you were a Great Brit.

What the fuck do you mean, it doesn't affect me??? Whether I was a closet subject or not untill two days ago.

 

[StagsForLife]

2.2M on that petition.

Don't think for one second we'd get one. However I feel if it was to be done again we'd have a different result.

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

Can't get behind this 'second referendum' stuff, we knew the rules, how it worked and if people didn't vote or regret their vote then it's tough shit. We've made the decision, we have to live with it now.

I've calmed myself a bit today, but I still feel pretty low. I feel totally apart from England, more than I ever have done. There have been some good posts in here from the Out voters, none more so than Scumbag, but I don't get the feeling we've voted on those lines. The out vote was won by Farage and the UKIP rhetoric, basically the anti-immigrant argument. I never liked the way Remain tried to hark on about the economic 'doom', I don't think that will happen, I'm sure things will stabilise and we'll move on. What I am concerned about is that there has been an irreversible change in mood, and that this mood will have to be acquiesced further now. I voted to Remain in the EU for political and cultural reasons and I'm worried that I'm clearly in a minority which will only decrease when Scotland leaves and we are now beholden to an increasingly right-wing country which will only degenerate. I really, really hope I am wrong.

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

It'd be interesting to see if there was another GE called and Labour put in their manifesto that they'd call a second referendum, how they'd do.

Not saying for a moment it'd happen but I wonder if it would help or hinder their chances.

 

[Magic]

I'm very disappointed by the result but having another referendum on it anytime soon would be utterly ridiculous.

 

[Habbinalan]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-michael-gove-eu-liars?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Thoughts?

Just one view, from someone with an agenda, but that sounds about right and rings true. It gels with what has been said about them by other journalists (including Murdoch employees) already - although one thing was new and will have me watching future interviews with a different eye. When he describes his interpretation of Gove and Johnson's reaction to the brave new world opening before them -

".....But I saw something beyond hypocrisy in those frozen faces: the fear of journalists who have been found out."

I wonder who will actually be picking up the pieces after this unholy mess? Everyone is assuming BoJo will stroll into No 10 but I can't see it being a straightforward succession for him and his cabinet in waiting..

 

[Habbinalan]

It'd be interesting to see if there was another GE called and Labour put in their manifesto that they'd call a second referendum, how they'd do.

Not saying for a moment it'd happen but I wonder if it would help or hinder their chances.

I see little point in Labour actually fighting another election in the next 6 months unless they were going to do exactly that and promise to fight for "Remain" with a new leader. I'm also not saying it would happen either (I don't think they've the balls or brains for it) but if a significant number of Labour MPs haven't reached the same conclusion, I'd be surprised. Either way, they're facing a potential wipe out.

For the moment, anything Labour (and the Lib Dems) do is a side show to the Tory party ripping itself apart with the struggle to find an "Anyone but Boris" candidate for their leadership.

 

[Jockney]

Can't get behind this 'second referendum' stuff, we knew the rules, how it worked and if people didn't vote or regret their vote then it's tough shit. We've made the decision, we have to live with it now.

I've calmed myself a bit today, but I still feel pretty low. I feel totally apart from England, more than I ever have done. There have been some good posts in here from the Out voters, none more so than Scumbag, but I don't get the feeling we've voted on those lines. The out vote was won by Farage and the UKIP rhetoric, basically the anti-immigrant argument. I never liked the way Remain tried to hark on about the economic 'doom', I don't think that will happen, I'm sure things will stabilise and we'll move on. What I am concerned about is that there has been an irreversible change in mood, and that this mood will have to be acquiesced further now. I voted to Remain in the EU for political and cultural reasons and I'm worried that I'm clearly in a minority which will only decrease when Scotland leaves and we are now beholden to an increasingly right-wing country which will only degenerate. I really, really hope I am wrong.

I think we have been heading in the right direction socially but results like Friday leave us vulnerable to an emboldened far-right who will now be looking to consolidate their political capital. That said, I think even if we had chosen to remain the European Project was inevitably going to die. People are beginning to wise up to the system and capitalism cannot sustain itself in its current form long-term. I don't think it's too adventurous or dramatic to say that an era of relative peace and prosperity for Western Europe may be drawing to a close... possibly even the prospect of war on a global scale in our lifetime.

 

[JJ1532]

Just one view, from someone with an agenda, but that sounds about right and rings true. It gels with what has been said about them by other journalists (including Murdoch employees) already - although one thing was new and will have me watching future interviews with a different eye. When he describes his interpretation of Gove and Johnson's reaction to the brave new world opening before them -

".....But I saw something beyond hypocrisy in those frozen faces: the fear of journalists who have been found out."

I wonder who will actually be picking up the pieces after this unholy mess? Everyone is assuming BoJo will stroll into No 10 but I can't see it being a straightforward succession for him and his cabinet in waiting..

I honestly don't see the Conservatives voting him in as leader in October. Who will stand in the leadership election? The only viable choice amongst the Brexit side of the party is Johnson, but how much support will he have in the party given that the majority of the cabinet and major figures in the party who voted to stay in will never vote for him. Nor do I think he'll win the popular public vote either, although I'd be interested to see where the public membership of the party voted. More in or more out?

I think the party will rally around a remain candidate. I think Gideon will put his name forward, which would annoy me because he's a clueless moron who would be as unsuitable to be in charge of that party as Gordon Brown was of the Labour Party. May would be another poor choice. Stephen Crabb is a guy mentioned by the BBC who could be a dark horse, young, fresh face, voted remain. If he puts his name forward, I can see him being an attractive candidate for the party and its members, especially the remain side. The worry of course is if these candidates split the vote and the brexit side all vote for Boris. But I think if the majority of the party are remain, they will do everything in their power to keep Johnson out. I hope they do, that buffoon in charge of the party is a scary thing. He wouldn't win the general election, not a chance.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

2.2M on that petition.

Is it geolocked?

 

[TractorBoys]

The notion that a 2nd referendum is even possible, irrespective of signatures on a petition, is laughable.
(I voted Remain by the way.)

As I said on FB after feeling the urge to hide half my friends and families future posts.

Whilst I'm happy to admit I voted to ‪#‎REMAIN‬, I also vote & stand for democracy and we have voted to leave. Quit wasting your breath on here and accept democracy has spoken. There will be no 'second referendum', the idea of rerunning a referedum based on a 60% rule put into place AFTER the first ref?! Utter nonsense. Spend the time you'd use on your FB statuses on research of how we move forward. /facebook

I know it's only 52 / 48 (rounded), but it is under present law, and will be, enforceable/enforced.

 

[Laker]

In hindsight they should have put a rule in where only a 60% vote either way would result in a solid mandate while anything less would result in another referendum the following year and so on. I voted leave and I'm not comfortable with such a large opposition to this, it's just not conclusive enough.

But under the rules of the vote, this should stand and we have to go with it (and reject a second referendum) otherwise it undermines the whole democratic process. And this is more important than whether we are in or out of the EU.

 

[StagsForLife]

Is it geolocked?

I would imagine so. As it is a government website.

 

[TractorBoys]

Just showing the other side of the argument here... whilst I do not see any political party being brave enough to push for this, no doesn't always mean no. My previous post suggesting it's laughable is relating to the build up to this referendum, how both sides consistently suggested this was all or nothing and couldn't be gone back on. The petition will fall on deaf ears, that I'm sure of for the UK, but it hasn't always around the world...

Imagine the incredulous reaction an ignore would receive. Actually quite scary to contemplate... Civil war?

 

[Gladders]

There's a new petition gone up that if England lose to Iceland then the game has to be replayed

 

[blade1889]

It'd be interesting to see if there was another GE called and Labour put in their manifesto that they'd call a second referendum, how they'd do.

Not saying for a moment it'd happen but I wonder if it would help or hinder their chances.

I think they would have to*, it would get them huge support from north of the border too


*to stand a chance at a majority government

 

[TheMinsterman]

In hindsight they should have put a rule in where only a 60% vote either way would result in a solid mandate while anything less would result in another referendum the following year and so on. I voted leave and I'm not comfortable with such a large opposition to this, it's just not conclusive enough.

But under the rules of the vote, this should stand and we have to go with it (and reject a second referendum) otherwise it undermines the whole democratic process. And this is more important than whether we are in or out of the EU.

It should never have been up for a vote, imho.

Democracy is wonderful and everything, but we're being made to ask decisions the vast majority of the electorate really is uneducated on (and I include myself in that, I'm a doctoral historian, not an economist, diplomat etc). If we were going to go I'd have been more comfortable with the public electing a government with that in it's manifesto and the process been approached slowly, thoughtfully and with a firm plan in place, with the support of the dreaded experts to give us a viable vision of post-EU Britain, rather than this clusterfuck of a "so guys, shall we go or not? Don't worry about the details, just tell us if you like the EU or not, heres some... erm... facts, yeah facts!"

I was never against the idea of leaving completely, just the utter lack of an actual plan. I don't think the electorate necessarily should be deciding things they clearly do not understand the ramifications either way of.

You can punish a government which fails to fulfil it's promises at a general election, you can't do jack shit about this referendum result.

 

[TractorBoys]

I think they would have to*, it would get them huge support from north of the border too


*to stand a chance

Ultimately it's too late- the wheels are already in motion with the EU commission already calling shots. Those of us who think it's still the UK's choice are uninformed.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

Just showing the other side of the argument here... whilst I do not see any political party being brave enough to push for this, no doesn't always mean no. My previous post suggesting it's laughable is relating to the build up to this referendum, how both sides consistently suggested this was all or nothing and couldn't be gone back on. The petition will fall on deaf ears, that I'm sure of for the UK, but it hasn't always around the world...
View attachment 3683

Imagine the incredulous reaction an ignore would receive. Actually quite scary to contemplate... Civil war?

There'd be riots, most certainly, don't think it would escalate to civil war, mind you.

 

[TheMinsterman]

There'd be riots, most certainly, don't think it would escalate to civil war, mind you.

If Marvel can have one why can't we? I thought we were free to make our own rules!

Least those stupid CODers would finally have a war to make them appreciate the fantastic choice made for them.

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

It should never have been up for a vote, imho.

I said the same at the start. A decision this big shouldn't be made by Joe Public.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

If Marvel can have one why can't we? I thought we were free to make our own rules!

Least those stupid CODers would finally have a war to make them appreciate the fantastic choice made for them.

That happens and I will fuck off to an EU country as a refugee. Germany like refugee's, right? I'll refrain from telling them I voted leave, mind you.

 

[blade1889]

Ultimately it's too late- the wheels are already in motion with the EU commission already calling shots. Those of us who think it's still the UK's choice are uninformed.

We haven't enacted article 50 yet and other EU countries can't so can't see why (even if the potential is essentially zero) it can't happen in theory.

There was an interesting point raised by a political reporter on 5live earlier. He was asked about a 2nd referendum and he said there isn't a chance however it is possible that we negotiate an exit deal with the EU and then put it back to popular vote to remain or accept the exit deal. Not sure how that could happen but assume they're more knowledgeable than you or I.

 

[CEngelbrecht]

I said the same at the start. A decision this big shouldn't be made by Joe Public.

It's not always Joe Public gets it wrong.

But man, when they do get it wrong...

You just gotta stay alert, people.

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average constituent."
- Unknown

"You don't take an active interest in how your country is run for just forty-five years, and look what happens!"
- David Mitchell on "QI"

 

[CEngelbrecht]

That happens and I will fuck off to an EU country as a refugee. Germany like refugee's, right?

Nobody likes refugees. Unless it's only women.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonic_Males

 

[JaseTheVillain]

It's not always Joe Public gets it wrong.

But man, when they do get it wrong...

You just gotta stay alert, people.

​

Adolf Hitler was never elected.

 

[CEngelbrecht]

Adolf Hitler was never elected.

I don't think that one is a point of contention.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_March_1933