European Union Referendum

[smat]

No offence Alty Captain Scumbag and Ebeneezer Goode but where the fuck are you? You got us into this thread and then disappeared. Worse than Daniel "I'm now going to take a month off Twitter suddenly" Hannan.

 

[Captain Scumbag]

Daughter two arrived six weeks premature (beating the previous record of five weeks set by her sister), so I'm spending most of my non-work time at the neonatal ward. Sorry about that! I try to enjoy some quality 1FF time every evening, but you can't realistically expect me to engage in spelling bantz with mnb098mnb AND in-depth debate about the EU. I have my limitations, Matty.

(As for Ebbe, I think he's been busy watching Game of Thrones).

I think we've reached a moment for pause, anyway. I don't expect much activity regarding Article 50 until the autumn. In the meantime we have various internal problems to sort out, like the trifling matter of picking the next Prime Minister.

Taking the long view, I'd like us to leave the EU, regain complete control over immigration and agree some kind of FTA with the EU to exempt us (and our European trading partners) from tariffs. Of course, I'd also like my wife to have the baking skills of Mary Berry and the arse of Salma Hayek circa 1995. What I'd like and what can be realistically expected don't always coincide.

I've already suggested the EFTA/EEA route as a potential compromise. I asked for opinions on that. Not many came back. TBF, I think some were still going through the sour grapes stage at the time.

 

[.V.]

Congratulations Scummy.

 

[smat]

Congrats Scumbag (although I notice that's the exact same excuse Hannan used. If EG says the same I'll really start to get suspicious, because virgins can't have children).

May I be the first to say I hope your new arrival enjoys a wonderful upbringing in the small, penurious, one-party independent state of Scotland, and I hope she doesn't resent you too much for what you've done. Please pass on my dismay at her not being allowed into my country, but the severe restrictions on freedom of movement must apply equally to all, even whities.

Good day.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

The FTSE 100 jumped again in Friday trading to sit at around 6,577 - its highest level since August 2015.

Despite experiencing one of the most volatile weeks since the 2008 financial crisis, the FTSE posted its best week since December 2, 2011, making gains of 7.15 per cent.

 

[silkyman]

The 250 is still way down though. The 100 is made up of multinationals who trade overseas and so are more insulated from a UK recession than others. They also benefit from a low pound (and the pound is still low.)

The 250 is generally seen as the better measurement for the health of the market and that's creeping up with help from bargain hunters as well as a 3bn injection into the banks from the Bank of England.

Things have stabilised in part because there is a complete pause in anything brexitty.

So we now know what the reaction was to the vote. Imagine what will happen when some moron invokes article 50!

So, yeah, post another picture of a smug racist.

 

[spireite]

Daughter two arrived six weeks premature (beating the previous record of five weeks set by her sister), so I'm spending most of my non-work time at the neonatal ward. Sorry about that! I try to enjoy some quality 1FF time every evening, but you can't realistically expect me to engage in spelling bantz with mnb098mnb AND in-depth debate about the EU. I have my limitations, Matty.

(As for Ebbe, I think he's been busy watching Game of Thrones).

I think we've reached a moment for pause, anyway. I don't expect much activity regarding Article 50 until the autumn. In the meantime we have various internal problems to sort out, like the trifling matter of picking the next Prime Minister.

Taking the long view, I'd like us to leave the EU, regain complete control over immigration and agree some kind of FTA with the EU to exempt us (and our European trading partners) from tariffs. Of course, I'd also like my wife to have the baking skills of Mary Berry and the arse of Salma Hayek circa 1995. What I'd like and what can be realistically expected don't always coincide.

I've already suggested the EFTA/EEA route as a potential compromise. I asked for opinions on that. Not many came back. TBF, I think some were still going through the sour grapes stage at the time.

Congrats mate. I hope mummy and daughter are both in rude health!

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

If we enter the EEA, freedom of movement will have to remain and isn't that the whole reason the majority of Brexiters voted out? Quite a compromise. I'd be fairly content with that but we have to answer to a groundswell of anti-immigrant feeling now.

 

[Captain Scumbag]

A huge concession, yes, but one I'd be willing to make provided it was temporary and part of a slow and carefully managed process of withdrawal.

There is, believe it or not, some polling data that suggests immigration wasn't the number one concern of Leave voters, but obviously dissatisfaction with the status quo vis-à-vis migration had a huge bearing on the vote. A settlement that left intra-European migration largely untouched would be hugely controversial, hence my suggestion (see post 1794) that any sort of EFTA/EEA deal would ideally be put to a referendum.

 

[silkyman]

It was clearly the second most important. And the most important for many.

And of course, as well as freedom of movement of we want unfettered access to the market, we also, like Norway, would have to accept EU rules. (especially those much maligned rules and regs on manufacture etc... If you want to sell it to them, you had to make it legal in there)

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Norway isn't bound by all of those rules though, and with more weight you'd imagine the UK could wriggle out of even more. To agree to keep freedom of movement though would be a huge betrayal, political suicide for any Tory leader that went with that you'd have to imagine.

 

[Captain Scumbag]

It was clearly the second most important. And the most important for many.
We also, like Norway, would have to accept EU rules. (especially those much maligned rules and regs on manufacture etc... If you want to sell it to them, you had to make it legal in there)

The EFTA/EEA countries like Norway adopt all EEA-relevant legislation, but that's approximately 25% of the total number of EU legislative acts currently in force. The argument that Norway is outside the EU but has to accept all its rules is simply untrue. Anyone who makes it is either ignorant or lying.

More importantly, a great deal of EEA (i.e. single market) legislation originates at a global level, mostly from standards bodies like the WTO, Codex and UNECE. Since the EFTA/EEA countries are not bound by the Common Commercial Policy, it could be argued that they better able to influence the rules at the formative stage, i.e. before they are gold-plated by regional bodies like the EU.

EU countries have to go along with the EU's 'common position', which is usually a messy compromise that no one is truly happy with. Norway can influence the key decision-making processes at these global bodies, acting as a sovereign country and pursuing its own interests. This is the point that the whole "fax democracy" argument against the "Norway Option" overlooks.

 

[SUTSS]

I think an EEA/EFTA style agreement might suit our national psyche a little better, even if I think we'd be better off staying in the EU.

 

[Captain Scumbag]

^ Agreed, but it might be better for the EU as a whole, too.

Broadly speaking, there were two possible responses to the Eurozone crisis. The first was to accept that the Euro is a fundamentally stupid idea – a prime example of political dogma trumping economic common sense – and abandon it. That wasn't going to happen, so that leaves the other, which is to pursue a course of further political and economic (especially fiscal) integration in the next treaty.

If the Five Presidents' Report is any indication, that is the course that will be pursued in the next treaty. For reasons of national psyche and practicality (i.e. us being one of just two EU countries neither in the Eurozone nor obliged to join*), Britain was never going to like the next treaty. Therefore, us being out of the EU simplifies the process considerably. An EFTA/EEA type deal allows us to leave in a way that minimises the economic risks.

*Although nine countries – Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Hungary, Poland, Romania, Sweden and us – are outside the Eurozone, all except us and Denmark are obliged to join eventually. Britain and Denmark obtained opt-outs in the Maastricht Treaty. The other countries joined later and therefore don't enjoy the same legal exemption.

 

[CEngelbrecht]

 

[smat]

Oh piss off. I was an ardent Remainer at the time of the vote but even I'm now wondering what immigration controls we can have on this forum to get rid of do-gooding Scandis.

 

[CEngelbrecht]

Oh piss off. I was an ardent Remainer at the time of the vote but even I'm now wondering what immigration controls we can have on this forum to get rid of do-gooding Scandis.

Well, for one, call for a:

Fuck me for trying to pull your foot out of your mouth. But get a second one, and no protest votes this time, and I'll leave you alone.

 

[smat]

If you post one more meme I swear to god I will vote Leave in any second referendum.

 

[CEngelbrecht]

Here you go:

I'm not letting you go quietly into the night.

 

[Max]

Here you go:

I'm not letting you go quietly into the night.

Look, I voted Remain. I was pretty passionate about it.

But Brexit is happening now, so maybe make your peace with it and change the record, yeah?

 

[smat]

Interesting blog on our actual options re freedom of movement. Seems unlikely Brexit will have a meaningful impact on immigration tbh.

 

[silkyman]

No? Really?

But we were told.....

 

[silkyman]

Farage is the next leader of this fucking steaming turd of a campaign to get what he wanted and then fuck off to let everyone else deal with it.

 

[Benji]

Also, Farage has stepped down. I believe his parting statement was "Shit, we won".

 

[blade1889]

Farage has now resigned and apparently UKIP are moving to sack Carswell, their only MP.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Wonder if he's tired again or if Murdoch has something on him too? Possibly just cashing in as the "willing to help other independence movements" comment suggests.

 

[smat]

Wonder if he's tired again or if Murdoch has something on him too? Possibly just cashing in as the "willing to help other independence movements" comment suggests.

What's this in reference to?

Farage, Murdoch and Liam Fox were videoed lunching together yesterday by intrepid political journalist Lily Allen. Maybe Farage will be offered a cabinet post if Fox wins the Conservative leadership???? #wildclaim

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

What's this in reference to?

An e-mail that was sent to someone it shouldn't have been seemed to confirm that Murdoch torpedoed Boris' leadership bid.

 

[mnb089mnb]

Haha, love that image.

Pretty sure we were all promised a spitfire and a cream tea if Leave won. Still no sign of mine.

 

[smat]

An e-mail that was sent to someone it shouldn't have been seemed to confirm that Murdoch torpedoed Boris' leadership bid.

The Sarah Vine thing? That didn't suggest Murdoch 'had something on' Boris tho, just that he 'instinctively dislikes him'.