General Election 2015

[Cheese & Biscuits]

This is the most public of job interviews ever for Sturgeon.

 

[Alty]

I think Sturgeon won that little exchange with Miliband there.

 

[Pyeman]

Cameron must be really feeling the love tonight.

 

[Pyeman]

I think Sturgeon won that little exchange with Miliband there.

Does Miliband truly believe he can win a majority?

 

[Alty]

Cameron must be really feeling the love tonight.

He's a fucking idiot not turning up to this.

For all the gripes I have with him, I do feel a bit sorry for Clegg being locked out of this.

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

I think Sturgeon won that little exchange with Miliband there.

I agree but again it's a no win for him. He can't go on record as saying he'd do a deal with the SNP as he'd be crucified.

In a way all of this may work in Dave's favour. It's basically vote Tory or get a Labour coalition.

 

[Pyeman]

He's a fucking idiot not turning up to this.

For all the gripes I have with him, I do feel a bit sorry for Clegg being locked out of this.

Why was Clegg locked out? Seems unnecessarily harsh.

 

[Alty]

Does Miliband truly believe he can win a majority?

It's not completely impossible. Unlikely, granted. But it could happen.

Thing is, all sorts of possibilities remain and haven't been considered. What if Labour are 3 seats short? They could go in with DUP (Unionists - so no horrible baggage about breaking up the country) in exchange for a relatively small concession like giving NI a few more powers or a bit more cash.

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

Does Miliband truly believe he can win a majority?

He can but Scotland is key. That's why he can't do a deal with the SNP this early. I don't think he can get a majority but would any Labour (or Tory) member be happy with Ed (Dave) having an attitude that they can't get the majority?

 

[Pyeman]

I understand why he needs to publicly put forward a positive message, but it'd be interesting to know how confident he actually is.

 

[Alty]

Overall I think Sturgeon was very strong again. Miliband not bad but probably not good enough considering what he was trying to achieve. Farage good. Bennett a bit nervous as ever and Wood very poor yet again.

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

I disagree. Sturgeon the clear winner. Ed did well against a barrage. Farage was a car crash and the other two on the periphery.

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

Why give the Tories a mouthpiece by giving Hague airtime now after Cameron chickened out of the debate? Debate properly or fuck off.

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

This chap looks like a Harry Enfield character.

 

[Techno Natch]

Why give the Tories a mouthpiece by giving Hague airtime now after Cameron chickened out of the debate? Debate properly or fuck off.

To be fair it's made him look even worse. Hague said that Labour were telling lies about them but Cameron should have been there to defend his party and expose those lies. Potentially awful night for Cameron.

 

[Alty]

I disagree. Sturgeon the clear winner. Ed did well against a barrage. Farage was a car crash and the other two on the periphery.

Nah, like Maguire just said, Farage is a polarising figure and lost the hall, but he did a good job in shoring up his own vote and attracting those considering moving over.

 

[White Army]

Sturgeon the clear winner again in my opinion, although i agredd with everything Bennett said, she just isnt as good as getting her point across as some of the others.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

Problem is a Labour/SNP coalition won't last 6 months.

I don't think the Scottish public, nor the SNP have realised yet that the minor party in a coalition has to back-track on alot of its pre-election ideas because most of the vote and MP are for the bigger party.

They honestly do think in some deluded world they will completely dictate terms and conditions for the government, i give it a couple of months before it collapses when either Labour snaps at the SNP for dictating or the SNP give up when they realise they will have little say in said coalition.

oh and Cameron and the tories doing some dreadful lies tonight trying to claim Cameron was never invited to this debate which makes him and out and out liar.

 

[silkyman]

Are they really claiming that?

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/oct/13/nigel-farage-2015-leaders-debates-bbc-itv-sky-news

In which David Cameron is not quoted as saying 'Snot fair, I've not been invited'

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

Problem is a Labour/SNP coalition won't last 6 months.

I don't think the Scottish public, nor the SNP have realised yet that the minor party in a coalition has to back-track on alot of its pre-election ideas because most of the vote and MP are for the bigger party.

They honestly do think in some deluded world they will completely dictate terms and conditions for the government, i give it a couple of months before it collapses when either Labour snaps at the SNP for dictating or the SNP give up when they realise they will have little say in said coalition.

oh and Cameron and the tories doing some dreadful lies tonight trying to claim Cameron was never invited to this debate which makes him and out and out liar.

But surely the SNP and Labour agree on a lot of things? I think the SNP would love playing second fiddle to Labour as they would only really disagree on a few issues that affect Scotland, giving them a fairly safe platform as they have the safety net of a Labour manifesto, which won't be a million miles away from what they would have were they a UK-wide party.

The independence issue and Trident are the two big stumbling blocks I can see. The first of which shouldn't affect the next government and the second will be decided by the entire parliament.

My only worry is that every decision that betters Scotland will be seen as Weakness by Ed (even if it is fair and in the best interests of the UK). The scaremongering and gaming will be unbearable from the opposition.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

There you go silky....and outright lie from the PM trying to play the victim.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/16/leaders-debate-cameron-not-invited-criticism

and you could be right c & B, but I just have the view the Scottish people and SNP believe they will be able to dictate and bully Labour, afew times last night them andothers were talking about being happy to back Labour, but a Labour they want....................that won't happen in a Coalition, they have to accept to be the one to make adjustments for odd small concessions.

 

[Red]

Wouldn't surprise me if right now Miliband is secretly prepared to do a deal with Sturgeon whereby he'd offer concessions but not another Yes/No for Scotland. Out of all the likely scenarios this would be the best for me.

 

[Alty]

Wouldn't surprise me if right now Miliband is secretly prepared to do a deal with Sturgeon whereby he'd offer concessions but not another Yes/No for Scotland. Out of all the likely scenarios this would be the best for me.

Sturgeon doesn't actually want another referendum so soon. It would be a terrible political move.

There are so many possibilities for coalitions, informal pacts and minority Governments, as well as a whole host of long-term strategies, that it's impossible to predict what'll happen at this point.

Part of me wonders whether Sturgeon is hoping for a Tory win (or Tory-UKIP-DUP deal) as that would result in an EU referendum, which would then give her some excuse to bring forth the independence referendum again. It would still be a bit of a bollocks basis on which to have a referendum. But it would at least be arguable.

 

[SALTIRE]

A referendum on independence wont be back for at least another decade, though it may be sooner if the Tories get back in!

 

[Pyeman]

Ed Miliband thinks every person in the UK should be able to speak English.

"We can only build a shared society if we speak the same language."

An attempt to counter-act UKIP? I get the logic behind wanting all NHS staff to be able to speak a certain level of English, but has he gone too far?


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[Alty]

Ed Miliband thinks every person in the UK should be able to speak English.

"We can only build a shared society if we speak the same language."

An attempt to counter-act UKIP? I get the logic behind wanting all NHS staff to be able to speak a certain level of English, but has he gone too far?

Gone too far? How so? Obviously learning a language isn't easy and you have to give someone leeway while they improve. But people who go to a country with no intention of learning the language are idiots. I don't want to have to pay for an interpreter for someone who's lived in the UK for 15 years.

Sadly Brits in Spain are amongst the worst for this.

 

[Pyeman]

Gone too far? How so? Obviously learning a language isn't easy and you have to give someone leeway while they improve. But people who go to a country with no intention of learning the language are idiots. I don't want to have to pay for an interpreter for someone who's lived in the UK for 15 years.

Sadly Brits in Spain are amongst the worst for this.

I agree, it makes logical sense that if you intend to move to a country, learning the language makes the transition easier.

Having said that, I think Ed's choice of language risks alienating people. For example, do we deport people if they haven't been able to learn our language? What about those who have come to our country for asylum? Even if we do make allowances for these people, do we want to go along with the narrative that people who don't speak our language aren't really a part of our society?

 

[Alty]

I agree, it makes logical sense that if you intend to move to a country, learning the language makes the transition easier.

Having said that, I think Ed's choice of language risks alienating people. For example, do we deport people if they haven't been able to learn our language? What about those who have come to our country for asylum? Even if we do make allowances for these people, do we want to go along with the narrative that people who don't speak our language aren't really a part of our society?

Agree with you in as much as I don't think it's enforceable.

1. The EU would never allow us to deport EU nationals for this reason.
2. It'd be illegal to deport people we'd granted asylum.
3. Even for non-EU non-refugee nationals, can we seriously imagine a situation whereby Immigration Enforcement go after people who've failed a language test having lived here for, say, 2 years?

TBH I think you probably can say those people aren't playing a full part in our society. They can't interact with the vast majority of other British citizens, can't share in our literature, television, cinema or radio. They're something akin to squatters, really.

Having said all that, the number of these people is relatively small. Not sure why Miliband is wasting his time on it.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

There's a huge middle-ground to be found between being passive and deporting people who can't speak English.

 

[Pyeman]

Having said all that, the number of these people is relatively small. Not sure why Miliband is wasting his time on it.

That was my other thought. I'm not really sure what he's hoping to gain from this.

There's a huge middle-ground between being passive and deporting people who can't speak English.

What do you think that middle ground might look like?