League 2 General Chat Thread

[GTFCfish]

This could be good for us should we achieve the unthinkable and actually stay up as I get the impression that our new owners will be much more prepared to shell out and back us in the transfer market than our previous owner Fenty McScrooge.

 

[masi51]

FFS i have not said anything and the Wally from Wallasey pipes up

Not got a clue what Tranmere have spent, and to be honest i dont really care now jog on

 

[masi51]

same as this year then

Under a Transfer Embargo This Season.......Ends in May
Happy days
We Cannot bid for your players ....though i doubt we would go shopping at Arkwrights

 

[Laker]

I dont agree with wage caps or the FFP.

For a start why should a club with more fans be able to spend more than a club with less? If the answer is more fans equals more money coming into the club therefore they have a right to spend it then I will reply..."Our owner is richer than your owner therefore we should be able to spend more than you" *

The amount of money a club should be able to spend should be dependent on the amount of money a club has (legally) coming in not It's source. Why can't a rich person plough cash into their club? And let's all be honest. How many clubs in the football league are propped up by wealthy investors now or in the past? Nearly all I would say.

The problem is not a rich person spending their cash on a football club. It's owners saddling a club with debt in the hope of making money from It's sale or getting an unrealistic return in the future. What I can agree with is there should be a cap on the amount of loans a club can owe to the members of the board/owners etc. Find a way to do that and a lot of the problems, except jealousy, disappear.

Casey

*to be clear I'm not saying Crawley's owners are the wealthiest. I'm just using an example.

I worked for a while on the accounts for FCA regulated entities and they have to adhere to strict rules on capital v monthly overheads - ie they had to ensure they had enough owner committed share capital to cover three months wages and they were only allowed to add current year or previous year profit in their capital figure once it had been independently audited. It was a sure fire way of preventing thin capitalisation (ie loans) and companies going bust through overspending.

Obviously three months’ overheads isn’t enough for a football club but something akin to this would work for me. You wouldn’t get any clubs going bust then.

 

[Robshep]

Under a Transfer Embargo This Season.......Ends in May
Happy days
We Cannot bid for your players ....though i doubt we would go shopping at Arkwrights

No. Harrods with a dodgy credit card.

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

I worked for a while on the accounts for FCA regulated entities and they have to adhere to strict rules on capital v monthly overheads - ie they had to ensure they had enough owner committed share capital to cover three months wages and they were only allowed to add current year or previous year profit in their capital figure once it had been independently audited. It was a sure fire way of preventing thin capitalisation (ie loans) and companies going bust through overspending.

Obviously three months’ overheads isn’t enough for a football club but something akin to this would work for me. You wouldn’t get any clubs going bust then.

This is the right way to go about it, genuinely independent auditing and more generally an independent regulator in the game.

The way this vote on the cap and the votes to end the season were Put through really exposed the EFL for what it is, a members club full of competing interests.

Genuine reform is needed not a knee jerk cap to paper over some cracks and get a headline.

 

[Casey]

Disagree. The less clubs rely on rich owners the more clubs can be run sustainably and ideally owned by their fans. Get the money men out of football for good and it would be better for everyone imo.

If a club gets bigger crowds/bigger income then they should be able to spend more then the clubs with less fans/lower income. Main thing is clubs stay solvent.

The amount of fans can increase and decrease therefore it is not reliable to base spending on fan base anymore than money from a rich person wishing to splash out.

I quite like Laker's suggestion. Its better than artificially holding down peoples wages.

Casey

 

[Bottega Don]

Wrong thread

 

[Chris FGR]

Think the EFL should look at introducing the 50+1 rule.

 

[Son of Cod]

Son of Cod? Just ignore him.

I've been neglecting the dossier of finances lately but Tranmere are definitely on the naughty list. How did Vernam do on his debut? I couldn't face the match day thread after another defeat.

 

[F!RTHY]

I've been neglecting the dossier of finances lately but Tranmere are definitely on the naughty list. How did Vernam do on his debut? I couldn't face the match day thread after another defeat.

Given all our strikers were out injured, he started upfront, on his own. Naturally, he was left isolated for most of the game. He pretty much created his goal right from the halfway line, though.

He started last night on the left-wing, but I couldn’t tell you if he even touched the ball - the snow was that bad.

Im expecting good things from the lad.

 

[Luke Imp]

I dont agree with wage caps or the FFP.

For a start why should a club with more fans be able to spend more than a club with less? If the answer is more fans equals more money coming into the club therefore they have a right to spend it then I will reply..."Our owner is richer than your owner therefore we should be able to spend more than you" *

The amount of money a club should be able to spend should be dependent on the amount of money a club has (legally) coming in not It's source. Why can't a rich person plough cash into their club? And let's all be honest. How many clubs in the football league are propped up by wealthy investors now or in the past? Nearly all I would say.

The problem is not a rich person spending their cash on a football club. It's owners saddling a club with debt in the hope of making money from It's sale or getting an unrealistic return in the future. What I can agree with is there should be a cap on the amount of loans a club can owe to the members of the board/owners etc. Find a way to do that and a lot of the problems, except jealousy, disappear.

Casey

*to be clear I'm not saying Crawley's owners are the wealthiest. I'm just using an example.

Why don't you agree with FFP? It's designed to ensure that Club's don't lose more than 'x' over a rolling three year period and has resulted in a substantial decrease in losses across football.

It's one of the few (only?) things that seems to work fairly well, albeit their are the odd loophole (see Man City and the likes of Derby, Wednesday, Villa selling their Stadium's to owners to increase profit).

EDIT - I agree on your point about owners putting money into a Club if they wish, but not if they're going to saddle it with debt. It should go in as equity.

 

[Luke Imp]

Our Chairman has said that the funding to cover loss of gate receipts for L1 and L2 Club's fell short by about 40%.

 

[HG Yellow&Black]

Utterly wrong approach by the PFA and league.
Debt is the issue. Allowing clubs to run at any percentage not turnover loss is insane.

There should be clear levels of which a club can run at debt wise and proportional to turnover.

If the owners are not able to do this they lose their licence to run the club and are audited by the league.....yeah I know lofty ambitions given their current skill sets.

Harrogate a clear example of this.
As Weavers managerial ability was starting again to be found out the club bought in 7 (SEVERN) players in the window, all whilst the rest of the lower leagues were hunkering down. All whilst Jonathan Stead sits doing nothing on £2.5k a week and a host of players are tossed aside as weaver has no ability not make the most of what he has.

How could they do this with no matchday etc income?

Ah yeah Simon's daddy is acting as guarantor of the debts (£400k + a year and would wager this year will be closer to a million). The debts act as a tax write down for the family house building business but as soon as daddy's boy feels like moving on the debt gets recalled and the club folds.

Tho other clubs don't run like this nepotistic manner, you see things like the Burnley takeover and realise how naff all these leagues do to safeguard the fan's clubs.
That said harrogate are weaver FC. The bandwagon jumping fans there to bask in the glory of Weavers managerial career being built on the club's debt levels.

 

[valefan16]

Our chief executive mentioned some interesting views ahead of the meeting of league two clubs tomorrow.

His point is say Southend and Grimsby go down they could argue that this is down to the salary cap as they could of signed player X who could of helped keep them up for example with a rule which wasn’t right to be in place.

We voted against it as it stops ambitious clubs but are uncomfortable with the rule changing just after a window.

 

[Gladders]

Our chief executive mentioned some interesting views ahead of the meeting of league two clubs tomorrow.

His point is say Southend and Grimsby go down they could argue that this is down to the salary cap as they could of signed player X who could of helped keep them up for example with a rule which wasn’t right to be in place.

We voted against it as it stops ambitious clubs but are uncomfortable with the rule changing just after a window.

Wouldn't surprise me, Hurst said he was restricted with the 22 player limit on signings and we have also had interest in Bogle in both windows but obviously both times limited by wage demands, plus lost out on players going to other clubs. Any of those things could be argued would make a difference.

Not saying any would make a difference to our final position but salary caps and squad limits have certainly restricted us in both windows.

 

[Casey]

Luke Imp; FFP prevents an owner investing in a club. It does not prevent an owner saddling a club with debt. It is exactly the wrong way round.

Juve, Barca and some English clubs can have debts in the hundreds of millions and still be within the FFP rules but Littleold FC can't receive a cash injection from the owner to pay the wages without bending the rules (this sponsorship is worth every penny to me).

Casey

 

[Luke Imp]

Don't know how many, if any, other Club's are doing this but Barrow have followed Chesterfield's lead in putting out of favour players on furlough.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

Don't know how many, if any, other Club's are doing this but Barrow have followed Chesterfield's lead in putting out of favour players on furlough.

Shameful. No idea how the club can justify it, and we certainly won't get any sympathy if we get relegated.

 

[chipmunx]

Don't know how many, if any, other Club's are doing this but Barrow have followed Chesterfield's lead in putting out of favour players on furlough.

probably a lot of other clubs who are just keeping it quiet....
I'd imagine that apart from the 2 mentioned in the article the other 4 will be 2 that are injured and out for the season as well as players that would have been loaned out to lower leagues which are not continuing.

 

[BarraMatt]

Absolutely disgusted that they've gone down this route. If we can't afford to have this many players on the books we should have never signed anyone in the transfer window. A dark day for the club.

 

[BarraMatt]

probably a lot of other clubs who are just keeping it quiet....
I'd imagine that apart from the 2 mentioned in the article the other 4 will be 2 that are injured and out for the season as well as players that would have been loaned out to lower leagues which are not continuing.

Just because others may be doing it does not mean it is anywhere near morally correct, given it is a job retention scheme, not a "fuck some employees off for a bit so we can bring in someone better at the job" scheme.

 

[chipmunx]

Just because others may be doing it does not mean it is anywhere near morally correct, given it is a job retention scheme, not a "fuck some employees off for a bit so we can bring in someone better at the job" scheme.

I agree - but if others are doing it why should we as a club handicap ourselves by not doing the same. because of our very low number of not playing club staff i bet we have less people on furlough than every other club in L2.
I agree that it isn't a great look, but I bet the EFL and PFA amongst others were consulted before any decisions were made.

 

[BarraMatt]

I agree - but if others are doing it why should we as a club handicap ourselves by not doing the same. because of our very low number of not playing club staff i bet we have less people on furlough than every other club in L2.
I agree that it isn't a great look, but I bet the EFL and PFA amongst others were consulted before any decisions were made.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's still correct. You're still abusing a system.

 

[Carver]

Not only will Barrow get relegated this season and become the worst ever team to come up from the non-league and then quickly be forgotten about, but also go bust.

Disgraceful behaviour from them.

 

[valefan16]

It’s a bit unethical although imagine many clubs are doing it. I wonder if we are with McKirdy, Visser and Trickett-Smith for instance...

Obviously Chesterfield got pummelled twice in the press for that and the vaccinations but they announced theirs have as Barrow. Imagine most clubs are doing the same.

Don’t agree on it, it doing it because they are skint I get it but not if you sign a few and put others on furlough.

 

[GTFCfish]

I think Barrow should be deducted some points, the amount of points to be determined at the end of the season so that they finish a point below us.
While we’re there is there anything we can pin on Southend too to come to the same decision on them?

 

[Robshep]

I think Barrow should be deducted some points, the amount of points to be determined at the end of the season so that they finish a point below us.
While we’re there is there anything we can pin on Southend too to come to the same decision on them?

The Stevenage gambit.

 

[E10rifle]

While we’re there is there anything we can pin on Southend too to come to the same decision on them?

They are proper chavs who used to have a West Ham club shop in the centre of town. Does that help?

 

[masi51]

End of any lectures from Barren fans.......