League One Play-Off Final: Barnsley vs Millwall

[Ciderup]

I'm certainly not condoning it...no idea really although the Millwall fan has come up with some good suggestions.

FWIW I dont see a punishment on the club having any effect. The club need video footage and lifetime bans for those involved in owt deemed serious enough.

I agree in part fella but something has to be done now. Every time they lose a big game, they kick off (or rather a tiny element do). Banning orders just don't work. A few years ago, some of our idiots attacked away players on the pitch at the Gate and pictures were all over the media. Loads were banned yet still managed to buy season tickets under different names. When City go to the PO's in 2008, I was on holiday and we sold out. I still managed to get a ticket! There are ways around most things as I'm sure you well know.
I applaud Matts' intentions, I really do but today, no matter, how small the disturbance was, is still not acceptable in todays world.

 

[Millwall_Matt]

Nothing will happen punishment wise as the club will claim (rightly, I guess) that they pay a fortune for policing costs and the management of fans at Wembley is the FA's business. Besides, the fans who cause the issues genuinely don't give a fuck if we have to play a few games vs no-mark clubs behind closed doors, or if the club gets fined. Best way to punish those c*** is to set-up a system which essential precludes their attendance to the games in question.

Aside from anything else I don't want to see the club get punished as I really don't see how that's fair on the players or management who have been exemplary in their professionalism. Something does need to be done, but punishing the club (who have no real control over the issues at Wembley) seems counter-intuitive to me when a simple change of policy could see those fans who cause the problems effectively punished.

 

[Ciderup]

Nothing will happen punishment wise as the club will claim (rightly, I guess) that they pay a fortune for policing costs and the management of fans at Wembley is the FA's business. Besides, the fans who cause the issues genuinely don't give a fuck if we have to play a few games vs no-mark clubs behind closed doors, or if the club gets fined. Best way to punish those c*** is to set-up a system which essential precludes their attendance to the games in question.

Aside from anything else I don't want to see the club get punished as I really don't see how that's fair on the players or management who have been exemplary in their professionalism. Something does need to be done, but punishing the club (who have no real control over the issues at Wembley) seems counter-intuitive to me when a simple change of policy could see those fans who cause the problems effectively punished.

Commendable once again Matt but can you honestly tell me that if there was a database and you weren't on it that you wouldn't manage to get a ticket somehow?

 

[Millwall_Matt]

Commendable once again Matt but can you honestly tell me that if there was a database and you weren't on it that you wouldn't manage to get a ticket somehow?

Possibly, but at least then those people ought to be traceable. It would also have the effect of deterring 'casual' morons from attending.
Ultimately it sounds like your suggesting that we ought not be allowed to have fans at these big events (or any away games?)
Problem with that is that the only people you effectively punish are the season ticket holders like myself and my 70 year old father who just want to go and watch football. In all honesty I'd find it hard to argue against that as a punishment, but I'd be absolutely gutted to see it happen.

 

[Millwall_Matt]

Possibly, but at least then those people ought to be traceable. It would also have the effect of deterring 'casual' morons from attending.
Ultimately it sounds like your suggesting that we ought not be allowed to have fans at these big events (or any away games?)
Problem with that is that the only people you effectively punish are the season ticket holders like myself and my 70 year old father who just want to go and watch football. In all honesty I'd find it hard to argue against that as a punishment, but I'd be absolutely gutted to see it happen.

Also, do you then apply the same to every team who have 'trouble' around football matches? Or just repeat offenders? How many times is 'too many' and how serious does it need to be? Despite the bad publicity, the vast majority of issues surrounding Millwall tend to be lots of drunken gesticulating and a few coins/bottles/chairs being thrown (as bad as that is). Other teams (West Ham, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool, Man Utd to name just a few of the biggest) regularly have far more serious occurrences of disorder when they play in Europe, often resulting in serious injury or damage to property. England supporters also have as bad a rep internationally as Millwall fans do in England. Should the same apply there?

 

[Ciderup]

Also, do you then apply the same to every team who have 'trouble' around football matches? Or just repeat offenders? How many times is 'too many' and how serious does it need to be? Despite the bad publicity, the vast majority of issues surrounding Millwall tend to be lots of drunken gesticulating and a few coins/bottles/chairs being thrown (as bad as that is). Other teams (West Ham, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool, Man Utd to name just a few of the biggest) regularly have far more serious occurrences of disorder when they play in Europe, often resulting in serious injury or damage to property. England supporters also have as bad a rep internationally as Millwall fans do in England. Should the same apply there?

Matt, I'm NOT proposing anything at all, just asking the questions that the powers that be should be asking of decent fans like yourself and your dad.
One thing I will say is that I would rather you and dad miss a game at, for example, our place than me have to tell my daughter that she can't go to a game because 'it's Millwall! I'm sure you understand and, like you say, your club isn't the only one.
Purely being a devils' advocate, every other club seems to have managed to sort themselves out so why should Millwall have more chances than the rest of us?
I feel for you and your dad, the massive majority, I really do.

 

[Millwall_Matt]

Matt, I'm NOT proposing anything at all, just asking the questions that the powers that be should be asking of decent fans like yourself and your dad.
One thing I will say is that I would rather you and dad miss a game at, for example, our place than me have to tell my daughter that she can't go to a game because 'it's Millwall! I'm sure you understand and, like you say, your club isn't the only one.
Purely being a devils' advocate, every other club seems to have managed to sort themselves out so why should Millwall have more chances than the rest of us?
I feel for you and your dad, the massive majority, I really do.

And Bristol City is certainly a team that we've had issues of this nature with in the past, although my recollection was that on the most recent occasion it was felt that it was fairly 50/50 in terms of dickheads. Honestly, if you or anyone else has a workable, sensible suggestion above what I've proposed then frankly I'd be open to it and I imagine at this point the club is feeling decidedly similar. Bans on all 'away' fans for games involving Millwall (home & away) was done once before, after the Birmingham riots in 2001. It was clearly effective at stopping trouble, but most fans from most other clubs objected almost as much as our lot did. It also has had no long term effect at dissuading the likes of today's geniuses.

 

[Hedonist Puncture]

Congratulations to Barnsleh. You did better than we did at Wembley, only beating Millwall 3-2. No doubt, my paternal grandfather will be smiling in his grave. The downside of your promotion is that I will lose the short hop across the fields to Oakwell and will still have to go down to South East London.

My comments regarding Millwall "fans" is purely based on personal experience. When I was last down Wembley Way, a couple out of a group of Millwall fans threw beer bottles into a group of young lasses (Scunny fans) having their picture taken. Certainly ruined their day, as we were all on the way to the match. I questioned some other Millwall fans on why do you put up with these yobs? Answer - oh, they are West Ham fans. This type of denial doesn't help. I can only ask for all decent and honest Millwall fans to stand up and get the club to do something about it. It has to come from within. The club will hardly do anything unless strict sanctions come from the authorities, which is extremely unlikely. I remember the early 1970's and a cup match between Millwall and Scunny. It was at the time of hooligans and while I was not one, I did get involved when a small group of Millwall supporters launched an unprovoked attack on me. They took me by force (including an iron bar) and got me to the ground and proceeded to set fire to my clothing. I was rescued by some Scunny fans and only my jacket was burned, not my skin. You may understand for distaste for Millwall, because of this, but I do appreciate that the majority of their fans are not like this. I would just like the majority to stand and be counted. Their club, reputation etc has been mired for a long time and also this affects how others look from the outside at football supporters in general.

Anyway, enjoy the summer and see you all in August. Barnsleh - don't let us pass you on our way up next season .

 

[Indian Dan]

Make them watch our team for a season - that'd put them off attending a game ever again.

 

[ThisTinpotLeague]

I questioned some other Millwall fans on why do you put up with these yobs? Answer - oh, they are West Ham fans. This type of denial doesn't help.

But demanding (and deriding) answers for the behaviour from ordinary match going fans with no experience of crowd control, policing football violence or football administration will solve it within a day or two.

 

[SkyBlueElephant]

Personally I'd ban all Milwall fans from travelling to away matches and make them play there home matches behind closed doors for a season.

How often can we keep using the well every club has a few idiots to continue defending Milwall.

 

[Liam_SWFC]

I think banning them from games completely is a bit too harsh, I think the issue is with policing these idiots and not allowing them to purchase tickets from any ticket office in the UK. Of course the issue with this is catching them and getting them onto a database which is easier said than done.

 

[PrestonCha]

Looked like young scrot-boxes acting like big bad solid Millwall headcases.

I'm sure the older Millwall lads cringe at this sort of embarrassing shite.

I wonder if those young bods would have been so quick to attempt what they did, had it been Man U, Everton or Leeds waiting on the other side of that netting, and not the sparsely populated Barnsley family section?.....I think not.

 

[Ciderup]

And Bristol City is certainly a team that we've had issues of this nature with in the past, although my recollection was that on the most recent occasion it was felt that it was fairly 50/50 in terms of dickheads. Honestly, if you or anyone else has a workable, sensible suggestion above what I've proposed then frankly I'd be open to it and I imagine at this point the club is feeling decidedly similar. Bans on all 'away' fans for games involving Millwall (home & away) was done once before, after the Birmingham riots in 2001. It was clearly effective at stopping trouble, but most fans from most other clubs objected at ost as much as our lot did. It also has had no long term effect at dissuading the likes of today's geniuses.

I don't deny we, like many clubs, have our fair share of idiots but yesterday was unacceptable. I appreciate you go to matches with your dad (as I do, similar ages in fact) and are a genuine football supporter but would ask this question. Say there was a 'Matt and his dad' in the upper tier at the Barnsley end (chances are there could well have been) when the idiots came storming around from the other end because they lost, how do you think Barnsley 'Matt' would have answered the various questions about yesterday?
I'm not criticising you in any way, just asking what on earth can be done to avoid it happening again? While the responsibility may not lie with Millwall FC, I'm sure their support would have some ideas as you have already shown. In all honesty, you must be sick of this type of discussion after every big game for your club. I really do empathise.
In no way am I asking you to justify the neanderthal behaviour by the way.

 

[Millwall_Matt]

Personally I'd ban all Milwall fans from travelling to away matches and make them play there home matches behind closed doors for a season.

How often can we keep using the well every club has a few idiots to continue defending Milwall.

Ok, I assume you'll be applying the same punishment to every club with occasions of crowd trouble? Such as this one, for instance:
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/football-fans-sentenced-after-trouble-10844791

Assuming your happy with that (and every other club in this division with similar issues) then absolutely fine.

 

[Millwall_Matt]

Any evidence that he's a Millwall fan and not Barnsley?

Even if he isn't there were plenty there who were.
I honestly believe that alcohol is largely to blame for these sorts of things. Reduce the number of pissed up fans and you'll see a massive decrease in policing issues.

 

[Carver]

Sorry but the only image I get when I think of Millwall, which has been for my whole football supporting life, is hooligan fans, nothing else.

Do any of their 'decent' fans ever come out and speak against this sort of thing where it matters? And has their club ever came out and said it's doing everything it can to stop it and has the club ever done anything good or charitable?

I think it's time they really get punished for this, it's embarrassing and has nothing to do with football, so if they must be animals and fight each other for a laugh then they should find a field and do it away from actual football fans and members of the public.

Also it doesn't help them whenever a hooligan movie gets made and Millwall are always the antagonist hooligans. But I wonder why that is ey?

 

[Ciderup]

Just reading about a FIVE year old Barnsley supporter who was hit with a bottle on his 'day out' and taken to hospital.
If being abhorred by that makes me a 'sad cnut', so be it.
Something has to be done.

 

[Bobbin']

Sorry but the only image I get when I think of Millwall, which has been for my whole football supporting life, is hooligan fans, nothing else.

Do any of their 'decent' fans ever come out and speak against this sort of thing where it matters? And has their club ever came out and said it's doing everything it can to stop it and has the club ever done anything good or charitable?

I think it's time they really get punished for this, it's embarrassing and has nothing to do with football, so if they must be animals and fight each other for a laugh then they should find a field and do it away from actual football fans and members of the public.

Also it doesn't help them whenever a hooligan movie gets made and Millwall are always the antagonist hooligans. But I wonder why that is ey?

Harsh to question the club itself.

They are often having to make statements after these incidents.

Believe it or not, they are very much a community club. Done a lot of work to help save a local hospital, was it last season they waived a sponsorship deal to instead promote the prostate cancer charity? There are other examples too.

As a club, they are just unfortunate that because of their past history and reputation they attract the majority of the local morons.

 

[blademan89]

Sorry but the only image I get when I think of Millwall, which has been for my whole football supporting life, is hooligan fans, nothing else.

Do any of their 'decent' fans ever come out and speak against this sort of thing where it matters? And has their club ever came out and said it's doing everything it can to stop it and has the club ever done anything good or charitable?

I think it's time they really get punished for this, it's embarrassing and has nothing to do with football, so if they must be animals and fight each other for a laugh then they should find a field and do it away from actual football fans and members of the public.

Also it doesn't help them whenever a hooligan movie gets made and Millwall are always the antagonist hooligans. But I wonder why that is ey?

You're just an idiot then jumping on the media bandwagon. There club does massive amounts to stop it and has to spend a hell of a lot of money too on policing bills. Virtually nothing actually happened anyway yday I can't believe the ott reaction some people on here are carrying on like. Last time millwall were at Wembley they were fighting with each other but I guarantee it was no worse than when we were last there our fans were doing the same yet there's gets national media attention because of there reputation. Anyone on here name me a genuine serious incident occurred involving wall rather than a load of them just standing behind police lines pretending to break through.

 

[blademan89]

Just reading about a FIVE year old Barnsley supporter who was hit with a bottle on his 'day out' and taken to hospital.
If being abhorred by that makes me a 'sad cnut', so be it.
Something has to be done.

Again that's not just millwall fans is it. Plenty of idiots throw stuff at each other not thinking of the consequences from 90% of clubs

 

[Ciderup]

Again that's not just millwall fans is it. Plenty of idiots throw stuff at each other not thinking of the consequences from 90% of clubs

I appreciate that BM89, really sad though.
Like you, I don't think Millwall F.C can do much more than they already do and the answers have to come from somewhere but it doesn't make it right. 30 years ago it was dreadful but in the modern day, we should be able to go to a match without things like this happening.

 

[Etienne Vermeer]

Note the Charlton fan standing up for us, given our fans share the same areas generally and thus comes across Millwall fans frequently. A much more valued opinion than most on this thread.

I don't get the big deal being made over all this.

 

[blademan89]

I appreciate that BM89, really sad though.
Like you, I don't think Millwall F.C can do much more than they already do and the answers have to come from somewhere but it doesn't make it right. 30 years ago it was dreadful but in the modern day, we should be able to go to a match without things like this happening.

Maybe we should but unfortunately we don't and never will that's football there is nothing you can do about it other than ban all fans of all clubs which ends football anyway. Basically you just need to accept that there is a huge improvement from the 80s but there will always be trouble at football and it ain't just millwall that cause it.

 

[blademan89]

Note the Charlton fan standing up for us, given our fans share the same areas generally and thus comes across Millwall fans frequently. A much more valued opinion than most on this thread.

I don't get the big deal being made over all this.

Neither do I nothing hardly happened. People jump on it cos it's millwall it takes 2 lots for a fight to occur and if people classing your lot regularly standing behind police lines pretending to break through as trouble then I give up. I'd rather have a trip to millwall too with a bit of animosity than a trip to MK Dons.

 

[SkyBlueElephant]

Ok, I assume you'll be applying the same punishment to every club with occasions of crowd trouble? Such as this one, for instance:
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/football-fans-sentenced-after-trouble-10844791

Assuming your happy with that (and every other club in this division with similar issues) then absolutely fine.

If it was a reoccurring problem happening every couple of weeks then yes I would be fine with this punishment for repeat offenders.

 

[blademan89]

If it was a reoccurring problem happening every couple of weeks then yes I would be fine with this punishment for repeat offenders.

Tell me of all this trouble millwall cause every couple of weeks

 

[Ciderup]

Neither do I nothing hardly happened. People jump on it cos it's millwall it takes 2 lots for a fight to occur and if people classing your lot regularly standing behind police lines pretending to break through as trouble then I give up. I'd rather have a trip to millwall too with a bit of animosity than a trip to MK Dons.

The highlighted bit, I totally agree with but the 'takes 2 lots' comment I do not agree. What were the Barnsley fans supposed to do when the idiots who associate themselves with a decent club travel nigh on 1/2 the way around Wembley to confront them?

 

[blademan89]

The highlighted bit, I totally agree with but the 'takes 2 lots' comment I do not agree. What were the Barnsley fans supposed to do when the idiots who associate themselves with a decent club travel nigh on 1/2 the way around Wembley to confront them?

They didn't travel half way round Wembley from what I've seen there's a line of coppers and stewards on the halfway line and mainly it's just a bit of goading with the wall fans pretending they wanna get through basically showing off. The odd 1 might of sneaked through. The fans running round the top tier are barnsley fans running off which I do agree they shouldn't have too.

Don't think there was any more barnsley fans on the top tier other than the few hundred on halfway line

 

[Ciderup]

They didn't travel half way round Wembley from what I've seen there's a line of coppers and stewards on the halfway line and mainly it's just a bit of goading with the wall fans pretending they wanna get through basically showing off. The odd 1 might of sneaked through. The fans running round the top tier are barnsley fans running off which I do agree they shouldn't have too.

Don't think there was any more barnsley fans on the top tier other than the few hundred on halfway line

Fair enough fella, I didn't know that.