Luton Town Relocation Plans

[Maple Hatter]

Major update. C and R, the major objectors to the stadium at Power Court have announced they have changed their stance on the stadium and are fully supportive of it. They do still say they are opposed to the enabling development at Newlands Park.

Hell of a U-Turn from them. Can only assume they have accepted they cannot won this and are trying to save some face. One major roadblock out of the way, although I’m fairly sure both developments have to happen. We can’t have Power Court without Newlands Park.

https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/c-r-fundamentally-changed-position-on-power-court-1-8443352

I don't see it as a u-turn. They know we can't build a stadium on Power Court without funding from Newlands. They also know what the plans are for Newlands and see this as a major threat. I feel the council have informed them that they cannot prevent Power Court from happening and now they have switched focus hence why they urgently want to talk to 2020. I say to the board to hold firm. We are so near to a decision here.

 

[Hatter86]

Or maybe not...

https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/i...large-inaccuracies-in-c-r-statement-1-8443752

No idea what’s going on.

 

[genesimmons]

Like i keep repeating i hope this gets sorted. Feel it for the fans in that antique ground, been a few times. Also as i gathered from my time liveing in luton the towns been going backwards for years and power court would be a big catalyst in its regeneration

 

[Kenneth E End]

I don't see it as a u-turn. They know we can't build a stadium on Power Court without funding from Newlands. They also know what the plans are for Newlands and see this as a major threat. I feel the council have informed them that they cannot prevent Power Court from happening and now they have switched focus hence why they urgently want to talk to 2020. I say to the board to hold firm. We are so near to a decision here.

I'd say its not a U-turn, but a political ploy. They know the council will get an almighty uproar if they reject a stadium, so they're playing games to try and get them to reject Newlands Park and thus the supply line.

C&R plan to invest £7m in the town centre.
LTFC plan to invest £200m.

 

[Kenneth E End]

One thing I am bored of from certain outlets (ahem BBC), is fake news. Newlands Park (as per my profile picture) is NOT going to be a retail park - does it look like a retail park?

According to 2020 Developments:
-Approx. 500,000 sq ft of high-spec offices forming a landmark design
-Large hotel with conference and meeting facilities
-An eye-catching environmentally friendly ‘green’ roof with walking spaces all helping with drainage
-Aspirational retail trading space ‘anchored’ by a quality department store to complement and enhance existing retail in Luton
-An innovative leisure hub housed in an iconic ‘crystal’design with a high-end cinema and a wide range of innovative active leisure attractions

Drop the block.

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

There is a not insigificant retail element to it though and it’s clealry the reason C&R object (even though they can’t outright say that’s the reason). So that’s probably why the media feature that but so heavily as it’s the talking point.

It’s all so frustrating as they have done nothing for the town, just care about getting more pound shops in their shitty “Mall”.

Still can’t get over the short sightedness of it all from them to be honest, could be working in conjunction with us to really make a difference and attract better retailers to the town, but instead are just being obstructionist. They clealry have no vision beyond next years profits.

 

[Kenneth E End]

Update update update...

So yesterday BBC 3CR were given access to Lawrence Hutchings, the new CEO of Capital & Regional, owners of the Mall shopping centre, next door to Power Court.

https://soundcloud.com/justindealey/power-court-latest

He reaffirmed their supposed 'change of heart' on a stadium at Power Court, but also their categorical opposition to Newlands Park, which in their view would directly impact the town centre and put 2,500 jobs at risk. They say, that regardless what happens with the planning decision, they'll object immediately and attempt to get the scheme 'called in' by the Secretary of State Sajid Javed, which would delay the scheme by a further 18-24 months at least. And then beyond that, an option to go to the High Court.

It's a pity that they're now saying about 2,500 job losses. They obviously were thinking about this when they decided to put rents up and thus driving some shops out of town. Their strategy now being retail that promotes footfall; in other words cheap traffic; i.e. more pound shops!

They claimed that the retail element of the Newlands Park development would compromise 75% of the retail and leisure at the Mall. This is simply not true. It is 900,000sqft v 300,000sqft.

They also claimed that 2020 Developments had not submitted all of the relevant paperwork in terms of a retail impact assessment and viability assessment. They pursued a FOI request for communications between Luton Borough Council and LTFC which they say proves this.

Why would LTFC deliberately delay their own applications? The claims are simply "daft" and "ludicrous" to quote Gary Sweet.

What worries me, is that we're now in a world where the truth is optional. Joe Public at the moment have a habit to believe everything they hear, whether it be speech or on social media. I'm sure the race to win hearts and minds are only going in LTFC's direction.

C&R just need to drop it now - one of their cornerstones is being at the centre of the community. I don't see a shred of evidence of that. They just can't see beyond their next accounting period and their shareholders, which to be fair, is what they're paid to do.

They say they've invested £40m since 2010 in the Mall and plan to invest a further £7m. That's just a drop in the ocean! The town centre needs a ten fold increase on that level of investment to make a visible difference. There was quite a prophetic video from when the Arndale was built (available on Youtube) from an opposition councillor saying that the town centre would be dead after 6pm... and it sure is! The club plan to invest £150-200m and each year, these schemes will propel another quarter of a billion into the local economy.

Its time to get on with it.

 

[oakroader]

lets just go squat in the mk cons stadium instead...they don't need it!!

 

[genesimmons]

I cant believe 2500 jobs would be at risk in the town centre. Do all the shops combined employ that many? With a football ground nearby the mall would be busier on a night particulary the food outlets. You never know the council may see sense and avoid getting it sent to secretary of state

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

I just don’t get it, it’s like they think of Newlands happens no one will go to the town centre which isnt true as with the stadium and various other new developments going on it will only improve the town centre and make it more of an attraction to people. Right now the town centre is going one way and that’s the toilet. The biggest risk to those people’s jobs is a shit town centre crying out for investment and the ease of online shopping. Not this new development.

The bloke who was interviewed was so incredibly out of touch with reality it was ridiculous, talking about people who work in the town centre not being able to pay school fees if they lose there jobs. I mean how much does he think these people get paid to afford private schools? Ludicrous. Also totally ignoring all the new jobs that will be created off the back of both developments.

Got to admit I’m not feeling good about this being approved any time soon.

 

[Kenneth E End]

... and this is the thing. Newlands Park is NOT a bloody retail park!

Looking at the plans its probably 30% retail, 45% offices, 20% leisure, 5% hotel.

 

[Maple Hatter]

I remember an early comment by C&R about making things very difficult for us. Basicaly saying they will do whatever it takes to make sure Power Court doesn't go ahead. The wombat currently representing the company is embarrisingly out of touch but his threats have to be taken seriously purely because of their financial clout and the team of more educated lawyers they have advising them. The threat to appeal to the SoS and High Court should the council approve our application is in my opinion mind games. This will be a very costly process for them and us unfortunately. Perhaps they are hoping that the lengthy delays will lead to us pulling out of the project. Problem is C&R this club has been around 133 years and has survived far more serious attempts to put us out of business. We aren't going anywhere. The retail business is however dying on its feet.

 

[genesimmons]

Worry is how long can luton stay at kenilworth road? Must be spending a packet or shall i say the council are on botching up that ancient stadium every year

 

[JJ1532]

From reading up on the situation with your stadium, is it not possible to get the stadium built separately and then worry about Newlands Park later? Or is it that the clean up of the Power Court and building a new stadium at £30m-£40m just isn't feasible?

 

[Kenneth E End]

From reading up on the situation with your stadium, is it not possible to get the stadium built separately and then worry about Newlands Park later? Or is it that the clean up of the Power Court and building a new stadium at £30m-£40m just isn't feasible?

Power Court I'd say would probably cost around £60m+, because there's more than just a stadium - they've got residential flats, which will also contribute a significant sum, a school, a medical centre, a music arena, a supermarket plus bringing the river back out from underground, as well as moving the power station, decontamination and all the resultant underground parking.

Newlands Park is there to finance the stadium, as well as offering P&R facilities on matchdays, but at the same time, its about Luton's image. It would be a spectacular sight for someone coming into the town for the first time off the motorway. In my opinion, there is not a better location for a business to move to. Next to the motorway with a quick link to London; 2 train stations within a short journey and a major international airport 5 minutes away.

And also we can't let the bastards win!

 

[Kenneth E End]

At last... progress!!

The meeting decide the date of another meeting was decided at a meeting this week. The date that the decision of the planning applications will be decided will be announced on Monday.

LBC had previously promised that this would be announced "by the end of April". What is Monday - April 30th! I expect it will be announced at 2358 on that day.

These things move slow.

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

Council havent waited until 2358 to announce the date then. The way they have announced it leaves you thinking its not really as concrete as you would like though:

"If everything proceeds as we believe it will, the week beginning 20 August 2018 is a realistic possibility to allow enough time for us to complete the outstanding work that still needs to be finalised before the applications can be determined.”

So plenty of wriggle room for them to get out of it again. If I were a betting man I would bet a decent chunk of change that that date gets moved and we are left in limbo for another season at least.

 

[Hatter86]

It's all incredibly woolly to be honest. If somehow permission is granted that week it definitely does not mean building can then start Monday morning. Few quotes from Sian Timoney this morning.

'Yes the council committee meet and decide if approve or don’t approve them for planning permission. But challenge possible afterwards by sec of state call in or judicial review launched by any objectors'

'If approved by council I think challenge can happen within 6 weeks. Referral to Sec of State is automatic due to scale of development (normal practice) and I don’t know how long he/she could take to decide if can go ahead. Will try to find out'

Odds on a challenge from one objector in particular going in 20 seconds after the decision is made?

 

[Chris FGR]

Kenilworth Road is fucking brilliant. Proper old school, who the fuck wants padded seats and executiuve boxes. You're going to football, not the fucking theatre. Shame it'll be gone soon.

Going to football is meant to be cramped, uncomfortable, cold and smell of beer, fags and piss. With a feeling it could kick off any minute in the air. Not the sterile shit you get at most grounds.

 

[Hatter86]

Kenilworth Road is fucking brilliant. Proper old school, who the fuck wants padded seats and executiuve boxes. You're going to football, not the fucking theatre. Shame it'll be gone soon.

Going to football is meant to be cramped, uncomfortable, cold and smell of beer, fags and piss. With a feeling it could kick off any minute in the air. Not the sterile shit you get at most grounds.

Granted. It does however haemorrhage money and isn't sustainable long term, or even short term.

 

[Chris FGR]

Fair enough, I was mainly bemoaning the general match day experience at most clubs these days, rather then saying you should stay at KR whatever happens. Clearly a new ground will increase revenue, which is the main thing I suppose.

Still much prefer the old school grounds. And KR is defiitely one of those.

 

[LongEatonPie]

Fair enough, I was mainly bemoaning the general match day experience at most clubs these days, rather then saying you should stay at KR whatever happens. Clearly a new ground will increase revenue, which is the main thing I suppose.

Still much prefer the old school grounds. And KR is defiitely one of those.

We just won the “L2 Away supporter best matchday experience” award.... Tadah!

 

[Kenneth E End]

Kenilworth Road is fucking brilliant. Proper old school, who the fuck wants padded seats and executiuve boxes. You're going to football, not the fucking theatre. Shame it'll be gone soon.

Going to football is meant to be cramped, uncomfortable, cold and smell of beer, fags and piss. With a feeling it could kick off any minute in the air. Not the sterile shit you get at most grounds.

Oh and many areas of the Kenny do smell of piss like.

 

[ValiantRob]

When does the retail park open:

 

[Maple Hatter]

Kenilworth Road is fucking brilliant. Proper old school, who the fuck wants padded seats and executiuve boxes. You're going to football, not the fucking theatre. Shame it'll be gone soon.

Going to football is meant to be cramped, uncomfortable, cold and smell of beer, fags and piss. With a feeling it could kick off any minute in the air. Not the sterile shit you get at most grounds.

Agree wholeheartedly. KR is a fantastic old school ground that captures the old atsmosphere missing from many new stadiums. Not just the crowd noise but the whole experience. Wouldn't go far as to say it stinks of piss the club have tried to clean it up but the old feel remains.

It's all incredibly woolly to be honest. If somehow permission is granted that week it definitely does not mean building can then start Monday morning. Few quotes from Sian Timoney this morning.

'Yes the council committee meet and decide if approve or don’t approve them for planning permission. But challenge possible afterwards by sec of state call in or judicial review launched by any objectors'

'If approved by council I think challenge can happen within 6 weeks. Referral to Sec of State is automatic due to scale of development (normal practice) and I don’t know how long he/she could take to decide if can go ahead. Will try to find out'

Odds on a challenge from one objector in particular going in 20 seconds after the decision is made?

The council had the cheek to thanks the fans of the club for their patience. The fans of the club have lost all confidence in the council not only at the snails pace the application decision is moving at but at the influence C&R seem to have had in delaying any progress. The SoS referral will eat up more time and even if that is agreed there could still be further delays. I'm just not convinced that other developments in the town have undergone the same amount of scrutiny. A bloody shambles and just typifies how the club has been handled by the local council. Sure they occasionaly make the right sounds but their actions, or lack of, are a disgrace.

 

[Hatter86]

The council had the cheek to thanks the fans of the club for their patience. The fans of the club have lost all confidence in the council not only at the snails pace the application decision is moving at but at the influence C&R seem to have had in delaying any progress. The SoS referral will eat up more time and even if that is agreed there could still be further delays. I'm just not convinced that other developments in the town have undergone the same amount of scrutiny. A bloody shambles and just typifies how the club has been handled by the local council. Sure they occasionaly make the right sounds but their actions, or lack of, are a disgrace.

Although I do understand the frustration I think that's a bit harsh. Yes it has dragged on and on and will probably go on a while yet. However as far as I'm aware any announcements regarding when decisions were expected were made by the club, not the council. Were the club acting on info from the council, maybe. Was the announced deadlines the ones the club were hoping for and announced them to try and put pressure on the council, possibly. I don't think it can be denied that this is a huge job for the council and they have been at pains to stress at every turn how complicated the process is, not least because it is two linked developments. Furthermore it has been clear from the get go that the developments contravene the local plan and national planning guidelines, so they are also working against all the issues that throws up. Timoney has said a few times that due to the scale of the developments they will be called in by the secretary of state anyway, regardless of any objections. Frustrating yes, but not the councils fault. Lastly I don't think they could have anticipated the level of objection from C and R who, like it or not, are a major player in the town and contribute more to it that Luton Town Football Club does at present.

I think they have been as open as they can be and, whilst progress has been slow, have kept us updated on developments where possible. I still believe they are behind both schemes as its clear to anyone with two eyes that the town needs these and they would be crazy to block these. If it all goes wrong, it could all get very ugly, but for me everything is still moving in the right direction, albeit at a snails pace.

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

Agree wholeheartedly. KR is a fantastic old school ground that captures the old atsmosphere missing from many new stadiums. Not just the crowd noise but the whole experience. Wouldn't go far as to say it stinks of piss the club have tried to clean it up but the old feel remains.



The council had the cheek to thanks the fans of the club for their patience. The fans of the club have lost all confidence in the council not only at the snails pace the application decision is moving at but at the influence C&R seem to have had in delaying any progress. The SoS referral will eat up more time and even if that is agreed there could still be further delays. I'm just not convinced that other developments in the town have undergone the same amount of scrutiny. A bloody shambles and just typifies how the club has been handled by the local council. Sure they occasionaly make the right sounds but their actions, or lack of, are a disgrace.

I too would be very interested to know if other applications have gone through this level of scrutiny. With some of the other big developments going on at the moment in the town with the airport and such it would be good to understand if there is any difference in what they went through. Fair enough if they had to jump through all of this stuff.

In a way the scrutiny is good to ensure as water tight an approval as possible but it has been incredibly frustrating. The general lack of communication from the council has been appalling really, the only decent information coming out of them is from 1 councilor on twitter. Ridiculous.

 

[Maple Hatter]

Although I do understand the frustration I think that's a bit harsh. Yes it has dragged on and on and will probably go on a while yet. However as far as I'm aware any announcements regarding when decisions were expected were made by the club, not the council. Were the club acting on info from the council, maybe. Was the announced deadlines the ones the club were hoping for and announced them to try and put pressure on the council, possibly. I don't think it can be denied that this is a huge job for the council and they have been at pains to stress at every turn how complicated the process is, not least because it is two linked developments. Furthermore it has been clear from the get go that the developments contravene the local plan and national planning guidelines, so they are also working against all the issues that throws up. Timoney has said a few times that due to the scale of the developments they will be called in by the secretary of state anyway, regardless of any objections. Frustrating yes, but not the councils fault. Lastly I don't think they could have anticipated the level of objection from C and R who, like it or not, are a major player in the town and contribute more to it that Luton Town Football Club does at present.

I think they have been as open as they can be and, whilst progress has been slow, have kept us updated on developments where possible. I still believe they are behind both schemes as its clear to anyone with two eyes that the town needs these and they would be crazy to block these. If it all goes wrong, it could all get very ugly, but for me everything is still moving in the right direction, albeit at a snails pace.

Of course its a complicated business but so are all projects of this size. My concerns, which are shared by many fans, stem from the noises coming out from the council one example being that they don't have sufficient resources to deal with the application. Unbeleivable! Their dealings with C&Rs expensive legal team (not the wombat in charge) are worrying and are a contributing factor to the uneccessary and continued delays. This is all costing the club money and the club have voiced their concerns, even if they have been publically very diplomatic, which they have to be. The application when submitted was beleived to be highly professional and extremely detailed to make sure it covered the majority of the technical issues that would arise and while you expect that there may well be areas which need further work it seems that a new list surfaces at the time when a decision is expected. I'm not naive enough to believe everything is going to plan behind the doors of the council. Politics whether it be at local or national level is not as transparent as people believe.

Harsh! Certainly not. This whole project is vital to the clubs survival. What would the town be without the football club? Its more than a sporting club, its a big part of the towns history, it plays a big role in community relations, it attracts national media attention, is internationally known and puts the town on the map, yet I don't think its been treated very well whether it be recently or historically. 60 years the club has waited. I don't agree that we some fans should sit back and have patience. We need to start exerting some of our own pressure. Don't forget that this application attracted huge support, unusual for this type of project, yet its the minority against it that are having more success.

 

[Kenneth E End]

Just wow. The arrogance is remarkable.

http://www.hattersnews.co.uk/LTFC.php?ID=12246

been “very concerned” by the length of time it had taken Luton Council to set a timetable for a decision on the plans which were first submitted in August 2016.

By C&R openly and willingly delaying it themselves.

C&R also added that the local authority had correctly confirmed yesterday that the council would have to refer both applications to the Secretary of State if they receive a committee resolution for approval, as they are departures from the adopted Local Plan and are against current national and local planning policy. They said: “This may well lead to the Secretary of State ‘calling in’ the applications which would inevitably delay the planning process by many months. There is also potential for a judicial review after any call in process.”

I'm sure they're so sad about this.

Please remember, this is the biggest response to ANY planning application in the history of Luton and I think any stadium in the UK. Tottenham put their application in at the same time as we did...

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

Seems like the supporters club are organising some sort of action against C&R in the town on Sunday. Hopefully be a positive show of support for the projects and put some media pressure on C&R to justify their position, something that has been a bit lacking from local media in my view.

Also hope it makes people realise that it’s not the council holding things up but C&R. I’ve been guilty of blaming the council myself in my frustration at how long this isn’t taking, but it’s C&R who are the real villains of the piece.