Managerial Merry-Go-Round 2020/21

[Vanni]

I could very well be wrong here, but I never believed this whole racism thing as far as managers are concerned. The fact is the absolute majority of managers are white, so I don't think being black or yellow or green has got anything to do with it. Or at least I don't believe it does in the UK and in most other European countries as well. It probably does matter a lot though in Eastern European countries unfortunately.

 

[rudebwoyben]

I could very well be wrong here, but I never believed this whole racism thing as far as managers are concerned. The fact is the absolute majority of managers are white, so I don't think being black or yellow or green has got anything to do with it. Or at least I don't believe it does in the UK and in most other European countries as well. It probably does matter a lot though in Eastern European countries unfortunately.

You're wrong.
It's been shown that bosses/managers generally appoint people that they are familiar with and feel comfortable with. Because black players have historically not been part of these networks, they have often been passed over for less qualified applicants. Just look at the sort of people who are usually chairmen or on the board of a football club.

 

[Enzo Scifo's Right Foot]

Rasicm is inherent at almost all levels of football, sadly

 

[The_Viking_Magpie]

I could very well be wrong here, but I never believed this whole racism thing as far as managers are concerned. The fact is the absolute majority of managers are white, so I don't think being black or yellow or green has got anything to do with it. Or at least I don't believe it does in the UK and in most other European countries as well. It probably does matter a lot though in Eastern European countries unfortunately.

You’re as wrong as wrong could be

 

[Conker]

All I’ll say about the racism thing is Sol and Paul Ince are the most vocal but the worst examples, but I’m sure racism does exist but I don’t think that’s what’s setting them two back.

Sexism is less talked about unfortunately.

 

[Vanni]

You're wrong.
It's been shown that bosses/managers generally appoint people that they are familiar with and feel comfortable with. Because black players have historically not been part of these networks, they have often been passed over for less qualified applicants. Just look at the sort of people who are usually chairmen or on the board of a football club.

I get what you're saying, but I'm not sure my interpretation of 'networks' in this case is the same as yours. I'm assuming you're referring to 'football circles' , and nothing to do with cultural differences?

Black players were well established in the game by the mid 70's, or to be on the safe side, by the early 80's. That's almost 50 years ago so they really should be part of these networks by now??

I'm struggling to understand why a 50 something year chairman/owner of an English club would hesitate and think twice about employing a black manager. I know racism is on the rise sadly but is it that powerful to infiltrate a football club? It does seem a tad far fetched to me. We're in 2018 for god's sake, and some sides do have more black players than white ones. I've never come across anything similar to like what the Zenit fans did when they petitioned the club owner to get rid of one or two black players they had at the time.

 

[rudebwoyben]

Let's just say that racism isn't just of the open, blatant sort as shown by those Zenit fans.
Everyone displays unconscious biases in their everyday life regarding groups of people displaying different characteristics and football club chairmen are no exception.

 

[Dan_Macclad]

Arguably Sol's peers are at Derby, Rangers, Monaco. He is at Macclesfield.

Ffs even Joey Barton got to league one.

Has to be more of a reason than just irritating people.

 

[Enzo Scifo's Right Foot]

Although significantly reduced there is racism on the terraces, on the pitch and more so in the boardrooms.

It’s all about historical racism and lack of role models at managerial level for black players .

Can’t believe I’m explaining this

 

[Vanni]

And I can't believe that some people like my good buddy Enzo Scifo think that the opinion they hold is not to be challenged because it's obviously the correct one. Meanwhile others like to keep an open mind, and are fully aware that their opinion is just that, an opinion.

I know all too well there is racism in everyday life, in fact it's on the rise with the whole Brexit fiasco. I simply do not believe that the absolute majority of club chairmen/owners are that stupid to turn down a good manager just because he happens to be black. I also believe that 99% of football fans don't have a problem if their side's manager was black.

^This is only my opinion, therefore it could be right or it could be wrong. Whatever...it's only an 'opinion'.

 

[The_Viking_Magpie]

Anybody who starts a post by saying “I could be very wrong here” , can’t really follow up with a strong opinion or get so defensive

Could what the other posters have put since your original post and bingo you have your answer.

 

[WhiteRussian]

We had a black manager, Mr Ince, twice. He was good the first time round, crap the second. I never wanted him back, not because he was black, but because of the 'you should never go backwards' scenario.

Now if I openly said I didn't want Ince back, it wouldn't have taken much for some do gooder to throw the race card in there. Seeing racism where it doesn't exist is not doing anyone any favours.

Sadly it seems to be the culture at the moment - If you can tag a racist/sexist lable on it - do it.

 

[Enzo Scifo's Right Foot]

And I can't believe that some people like my good buddy Enzo Scifo think that the opinion they hold is not to be challenged because it's obviously the correct one. Meanwhile others like to keep an open mind, and are fully aware that their opinion is just that, an opinion.

I know all too well there is racism in everyday life, in fact it's on the rise with the whole Brexit fiasco. I simply do not believe that the absolute majority of club chairmen/owners are that stupid to turn down a good manager just because he happens to be black. I also believe that 99% of football fans don't have a problem if their side's manager was black.

^This is only my opinion, therefore it could be right or it could be wrong. Whatever...it's only an 'opinion'.

Vanni think more in terms of it being a generational issue not a current one. It’s obvious that past racism for decade after decade caused a bottleneck (that’s putting it kindly) or more accurately suffocated black players becoming managers. Therefore today’s black players don’t have black role models as managers.

There has been a few documentaries on terrestrial TV which have explored and explained this.

Aka “you’re wrong“ ! haha

 

[Chris FGR]

Arguably Sol's peers are at Derby, Rangers, Monaco. He is at Macclesfield.

Has to be more of a reason than just irritating people.

Not the best examples given one of them (Henry) is black.

Campbell comes across as an entitled delusional twat, which is probably the main reason no one has given him a job up till now.

 

[rudebwoyben]

We had a black manager, Mr Ince, twice. He was good the first time round, crap the second. I never wanted him back, not because he was black, but because of the 'you should never go backwards' scenario.

Now if I openly said I didn't want Ince back, it wouldn't have taken much for some do gooder to throw the race card in there. Seeing racism where it doesn't exist is not doing anyone any favours.

Sadly it seems to be the culture at the moment - If you can tag a racist/sexist lable on it - do it.

That’s an impressive straw man you’ve built there.

 

[Dan_Macclad]

Not the best examples given one of them (Henry) is black.

Campbell comes across as an entitled delusional twat, which is probably the main reason no one has given him a job up till now.

My point is, as a multiple premier league winner and your peers are getting top jobs, you’d be pissed off to only land the Macc job and there must be a reason.
Even the worlds biggest twats aren’t rejected by everybody.

To be fair I think we’d beat Monaco at the moment.

 

[Chris FGR]

That’s an impressive straw man you’ve built there.

He's right though.

Remember Darren Lewis getting all wound up on talksport cos people were saying Lukaku was lazy. Apparently you can't say that about a black player (even if it's true) cos it's racist (clearly isn't).

People play the racism/sexism card way too easily and it's pretty pathetic tbh.

 

[rudebwoyben]

He's right though.

Remember Darren Lewis getting all wound up on talksport cos people were saying Lukaku was lazy. Apparently you can't say that about a black player (even if it's true) cos it's racist (clearly isn't).

People play the racism/sexism card way too easily and it's pretty pathetic tbh.

He really isn’t. Certainly not with his example as it’s clear that he could give good reasons as to why he would not want Paul Ince as his team’s manager.
The Lukaku issue on the other hand does hark to long-standing racist stereotypes of black people being inherently lazy. I don’t ever listen to Talksport but I have a feeling that the level of insight in listener phone-in comments is not high.

 

[WhiteRussian]

The point I am trying to make is that there are a multitude of reasons why a person does not get a job and people are too free with the racist label. I wouldn't give Sol Cambell a job because I think he's a bell end, not because he's a black bell end.

As to your point on racial stereotypes, you cannot stop telling the truth because of it. If someone thinks Lukaku is a lazy sod he should be allowed to say so. I would certainly criticise any of MK's black players if they were lazy, and it would be because they were lazy, not black and lazy.

I certainly agree with getting racism out of football, I just don't think a McCarthy witch hunt is the way to go about it.

 

[The_Viking_Magpie]

In all likelihood, as football fans, we’ve missed out on some potentially great black managers in the past two decades. Scores and scores would of been put off or not even considered going into management because of racism in the game. A very small percentage, as with any creed or colour, would of benn great/legendary. It’s a real shame and must have been extremely frustrating to some. Sadly there was a widespread acceptance of this for far too long.

Hopefully very slowly but surely things are changing but it’s going to take a generation or two to readdress the balance

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

i'd be interested for a proper comparison to see just what 15 clubs turned Sol down before making judgements on race.

For example i'd expect he maybe went for Carlisle job in summer (if he's now been happy with L2) and they must have turned him down, but with their last manager being black i doubt race had an issue.

You can argue on Lampard and Gerrard jobs my argument is really they should not have got these jobs either, what Sol is doing is exactly what i'd expect an ex player to do, work up from the bottom, he may gain much more from it......a few of the bigger name players do well at this level, then f*ck it up by their ego making them jump too quickly to bigger jobs.

If i were sol i'd go and maybe ask Wenger if he wanted to be assistant and work for nothing in his spare time, the move may actually appeal to wenger as it gives him something to do without any pressures of management.

 

[Dan_Macclad]

i'd be interested for a proper comparison to see just what 15 clubs turned Sol down before making judgements on race.

For example i'd expect he maybe went for Carlisle job in summer (if he's now been happy with L2) and they must have turned him down, but with their last manager being black i doubt race had an issue.

You can argue on Lampard and Gerrard jobs my argument is really they should not have got these jobs either, what Sol is doing is exactly what i'd expect an ex player to do, work up from the bottom, he may gain much more from it......a few of the bigger name players do well at this level, then f*ck it up by their ego making them jump too quickly to bigger jobs.

If i were sol i'd go and maybe ask Wenger if he wanted to be assistant and work for nothing in his spare time, the move may actually appeal to wenger as it gives him something to do without any pressures of management.

Tempt the invincibles out of retirement. All could do a job in our league!

 

[rudebwoyben]

Tempt the invincibles out of retirement. All could do a job in our league!

Jens Lehmann, Kolo Toure, Robert Pires and Lauren as well as Sol Campbell all play regularly in Kanu's Legends series matches so they're still in shape! I went to the most recent African Legends vs Premier League Legends match in September and Pires scored a hat-trick!

 

[Gladders]

For example i'd expect he maybe went for Carlisle job in summer (if he's now been happy with L2) and they must have turned him down, but with their last manager being black i doubt race had an issue.

If I remember right he was heavily linked with us before Jolley got it, but again our previous manager was black so he can hardly pull the racist card on us turning him down either.

 

[The_Viking_Magpie]

Get in a token black manager, and that instantly protects you from any suggestion of racism. Love it lol

We’re in the clear too. Yay!

 

[AdamStag]

Mansfield are covered as we had the fantastic and loveable Carlton Palmer , then we had Keith Curle.

We've gone for the overweight option in Steve Evans also.

 

[valefan16]

I think Sol's case is slightly different and far less to do with racism... listen to his first interview and it tells you a lot.

 

[Enzo Scifo's Right Foot]

Mansfield are covered as we had the fantastic and loveable Carlton Palmer , then we had Keith Curle.

We've gone for the overweight option in Steve Evans also.

Ticked the convicted criminal box too

 

[gijsbert_bos]

He's right though.

Remember Darren Lewis getting all wound up on talksport cos people were saying Lukaku was lazy. Apparently you can't say that about a black player (even if it's true) cos it's racist (clearly isn't).

People play the racism/sexism card way too easily and it's pretty pathetic tbh.

Funnily enough, John Akinde gets a fair bit of stick from some of our fans for being 'lazy'. Oddly, Matt Rhead doesn't get that levelled at him, despite arguably moving around no more than JA. I reckon there's a fair bit of racism there.

 

[rudebwoyben]

Funnily enough, John Akinde gets a fair bit of stick from some of our fans for being 'lazy'. Oddly, Matt Rhead doesn't get that levelled at him, despite arguably moving around no more than JA. I reckon there's a fair bit of racism there.

It's a common accusation levelled against Akinde and I think it is due to a lot of ingrained unconscious bias. It also chimes in with a lot of footie fans' opinions that a player has to be seen running around a lot directionlessly to be seen as a hard worker no matter how pointless that running around is. Liam Hatch was a prime exponent of that for us.