Relegation Thread 2017/18

[darren gregory]

Yes cracking to be fair. We hosted England Ladies which nothing sexist but just isn't my bag at all, but think there was about 8000 crowd , double what Vale get !!

 

[GTFCfish]

Quite funny reading through the last 2 or 3 pages at the over-reaction of the Vale fans on just being 1-0 down. I didn't realise there were any games last night until I read the away support thread so clicked on the relegation thread not knowing any of the scores. On reading it I genuinely thought Vale were about 3-0 down at half time judging by their fans comments then I checked on BBC sport and saw that it was only 1-0 and it then ended 1-1.

 

[valefan16]

Quite funny reading through the last 2 or 3 pages at the over-reaction of the Vale fans on just being 1-0 down. I didn't realise there were any games last night until I read the away support thread so clicked on the relegation thread not knowing any of the scores. On reading it I genuinely thought Vale were about 3-0 down at half time judging by their fans comments then I checked on BBC sport and saw that it was only 1-0 and it then ended 1-1.

That’s the stress we are under... I was having palpitations the last few minutes that we’d somehow bugger up late again! I’m 33 and greying slightly (ironically since having my two kids in the past 3 years!) but il be full on grey by May and likely in need of a bypass!

 

[darren gregory]

Quite funny reading through the last 2 or 3 pages at the over-reaction of the Vale fans on just being 1-0 down. I didn't realise there were any games last night until I read the away support thread so clicked on the relegation thread not knowing any of the scores. On reading it I genuinely thought Vale were about 3-0 down at half time judging by their fans comments then I checked on BBC sport and saw that it was only 1-0 and it then ended 1-1.

I think Fish it is the general anger and disbelief at our car crash season.
We have now equalled our run at the start of the season, 11 without a win, probably beat it on Saturday
I had genuinely texed the wattsap group i go on with a few mates and put, surely this is the worst Vale side in our lifetime...literally 10 seconds later their keeper gifted us one so i looked a bit of a dick.
We are angry and worried in equal measures, in reality we have drawn our 2 must not lose games and this garbage run must end soon. What is baffling to me is that we last won on December 30th and were 11 points from relegation. We haven't won in 11 but are still 7 points away, what on earth are the rest of the strugglers doing !!!

 

[Randolph Haggerty]

[QUOTE="darren gregory, post: 750217, member: 577"what on earth are the rest of the strugglers doing !!![/QUOTE]
Struggling!

 

[Bartonyellow]

I always found with vale fans that They have such contrasting emotions. It’s either amazing or shite. Nothing in between.
I suppose most fans fall in to the “ we can beat anyone “ or the “ we are going down for sure” camp, but vale fans do seem to shift up and down that scale more than most.
Must admit - it’s pretty grim lately. You will be ok though.

 

[valefan16]

A lot of the stress is this is the first time in recent history anyway we’ve been in real danger of losing EFL status. Two seasons back we played Maidenhead and being taken to a replay was disappointing against a side three levels below who most didn’t know existed... next season we could be the same level!

After decline and a lower mid table finish in our first season in L2 in 25 years in 2008 we worked hard under Micky Adams to get back to League One... we’d starved the previous owners out and a lot of fans put a lot into it... we got Wilde’s/Smurf completed the promotion and proceeded to finish 9th in our first season back in League One.

Things oddly took a turn for the worst during arguably our best season in league one in that spell under Page. Decent home record, beat Sheffield United and Wigan at home early season, knocked out eventual Championship title winners Burnley before a brave penalty shoot out defeat against WBA at the Hawthornes... all looked solid... then came the FA Cup Second round tie at lower mid table Exeter from League Two.

These defeats happen in the cup... and a real horror show saw us beaten 2-0... the chairman lost it... according to some fans went on the fans coach telling them Page would be sacked (although denied by Smurf IIRC) held an inquest at full time pitch side with Page in front of the media and fans... then randomly went on Sky and said he nearly hired Hasslebank (who was overseeing Burtons title charge) but due to the racial incidents he didn’t! And stated during the Exeter game he thought he was having a heart attack and may give it up... he put the club for sale wanting his investment back... £6 million for a club worth 1.5 is crazy and was never likely to get it.... at the end of the season a side just missing the league one play offs was dismantled and Page left (Smurf mentioned that he’s forced his hand by offering peanuts to the squad)...

Then last season came the ‘experiment’ after a phone call from Jose Mourinho recommended his mate who had recently left Ludogorets Bruno Ribeiro and he was hired. We signed loads of foreigners from places such as Monaco, Benfica and Roda... everyone expected us to nose dive doing it... but it started well! By October we were in the play offs just off the autos... playing whipping boys Coventry at home on the back of six straight wins at home... we were dire... really dire and lost 2-0... that started the slide... Bruno goes, Michael Brown comes in and signs multiple players... only Chris Eagles really stands out and we go down... Brown then stays miraculously and builds a whole new squad... Smurf rejects two realistic offers (possibly waiting for the Hugill millions which came in late on deadline day in January) and we drop to our lowest position since 1980 or something...

Anyone under 45 won’t remember these days... they remember the glorious sides of the 1990s under Rudge... the challenge for a spot in the Premier League... Steve Guppy, Ian Bogie, Aspo, Naylor, Van Der Laan... beating Stoke year after year and sending them down by beating Huddersfield, the glorious cup giant killings... being a penalty shoot out from changing history against Arsenal and the Wembley trips... we grew up with that and granted we’re spoiled by that relative over achievement but the thought that this club we grew up with being as it was could now be heading to Salford, Harrogate and Boreham Wood next year is unthinkable. I guess Tranmere, Luton, Bristol Rovers and Oxford fans felt the same but it doesn’t make it any easier to take that we are in this position... add to that the ownership problems... an owner who refuses to sell but admits he is ‘numb to the club’ doesn’t help either... what would be left if we went down... would we even compete as Orient and Hartlepool have shown? Even Tranmere have found it tough and they are arguably the biggest club to go down there in recent times. Luton took years... didn’t Oxford too. I personally spend time going over different scenarios in my head... what Barnet and Chesterfield need to do if we do this etc... I dread Match Days... it’s not meant to be like that is it!

But I could of supported Man United or Liverpool (not Arsenal as they have to worse than anyone else apparently!) but chose this life as we all have down here I guess!

 

[Dave-Vale]

We are an absolute circus. Going down would be the final act.

 

[Dave-Vale]

We’ve not won for 3 months and we are still 7 points clear of the bottom 2.

 

[valefan16]

We’ve not won for 3 months and we are still 7 points clear of the bottom 2.

Oddly in notice we have one of the worst home records in the division yet haven’t lost at Vale Park in four months now! Drawing our way to safety!

 

[JJ1532]

51 - Safety 2013
50 - Safety 2014
49 -
48 -
47 - Safety 2017
46 -
45 - Safety 2012
44 -
43 -
43 -
42 - Safety 2015 Yeovil(37)
41 -
40 - Predicted Safety 17-18
39 - Morecambe(36)
38 - Port Vale(37)
37 - Crewe(37), Forest Green(37), Grimsby(38)
36 -
35 - Safety 2016
34 -
33 -
32 -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
31 - Chesterfield(36)
30 - Barnet(38)

Forthcoming fixtures:

17th Yeovil(37) - 42 points. Accrington(A), Forest Green(H), Coventry(A), Luton(H), Swindon(A), Wycombe(H), Notts County(A), Mansfield(H), Lincoln(A)
18th Morecambe(36) - 39 points. Colchester(H), Lincoln(H), Swindon(A), Cambridge(H), Cheltenham(A), Chesterfield(H), Carlisle(H), Crewe(A), Barnet(H), Coventry(A)
19th Port Vale(37) - 38 points. Exeter(H), Wycombe(A), Chesterfield(H), Crewe(A), Crawley(H), Lincoln(H), Mansfield(A), Carlisle(H), Cambridge(A)
20th Crewe(37) - 37 points. Forest Green(H), Newport(A), Barnet(A), Port Vale(H), Mansfield(A), Luton(A), Morecambe(H), Crawley(A), Cheltenham(H)
21st Forest Green(37) - 37 points. Crewe(A), Mansfield(H), Yeovil(A), Colchester(H), Barnet(A), Cheltenham(A), Chesterfield(H), Luton(A), Grimsby(H)
22nd Grimsby(38) - 37 points. Coventry(A), Stevenage(H), Wycombe(A), Chesterfield(H), Barnet(H), Swindon(A), Notts County(H), Forest Green(A)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
23rd Chesterfield(36) - 31 points. Notts County(H), Port Vale(A), Newport(H), Grimsby(A), Morecambe(A), Mansfield(H), Exeter(A), Forest Green(A), Wycombe(H), Barnet(A)
24th Barnet(38) - 30 points. Luton(A), Crewe(H), Stevenage(A), Forest Green(H), Grimsby(A), Newport(H), Morecambe(A), Chesterfield(H)

Starting from the bottom this week, Barnet only manage 1 point from back to back home games. Not good enough, but then their run in is very favourable after next week, the home games will be huge, all 4 are winnable. The game against the Alex on Good Friday could decide their fate. Chesterfield are also struggling to win, a point away at Cheltenham isn't a bad result but they need wins. Still have some winnable away games, wouldn't write them off, but a great escape is looking increasingly unlikely. A win over the Easter weekend changes things though.

Grimsby keep sliding, another heavy defeat today. Next 3 don't look too kind either. They'll likely be praying for results to go their way over the next few weeks, can't seem to arrest their bad form. Forest Green have dropped off, their game with Crewe on Tuesday is huge. Same on the other side of that clash, Crewe have been better of late, but today was what we've seen for most of the season, shambolic. Winner from the game on Tuesday is as good as safe in my opinion.

Port Vale have drawn 4 straight, slowly crawling their way to safety. Got some tricky fixtures coming up, the Easter weekend is huge for their survival prospects. Morecambe grabbed a massive win at home to Exeter, got to give Bentley credit, they always find a way to drag themselves out of relegation and stay up every year. Still got a ways to go, but 6 home games left for them, should stay up barring something incredible.

I was worried for Yeovil a week ago. Well, I wasn't, but it did look like they might be a dark horse to go down given their run in. But 4 points from back to back away games against Exeter and Colchester is a cracking return and might be enough for them to stay up now, even with a collapse.

The safety line continues to hover between 39 and 40 points. Obviously a sudden revival from Chesterfield or Barnet moves that figure up quickly, but at the moment 41 or more might do it. Big games on Tuesday with Morecambe, Port Vale, Crewe and Forest Green all playing. A win for any of them would put them much closer to safety.

 

[rudebwoyben]

We just don’t have the mental strength to hold onto leads having thrown away 9 of them in the league this season, we don’t have the cohesion to put in a performance for an entire matc, the quality of our attacking play is not good enough for us to score more than 1 goal a match and Westley is starting to make more and more bizarre substitutions...so I’m not optimistic that we’ll escape!

 

[valefan16]

One more win would leave Barnet needing to win half their games to catch us if we failed to pick up another point so should be about out of the equation for us if we win Tuesday.

Chesterfield would also need 11 points from 30 so win Tuesday and beat or at least take a point off them on good Friday and that will be us sorted I think.

43-44 points looks like it will do it this season.

 

[LondonOrn]

What's gone wrong with Barnet this season? Although ideally you would prefer to be playing in the borough, and I imagine many of you still miss Underhill, I was led to believe that the move to the Hive Stadium would signal an improvement on the pitch (indeed I remember there being much regret that you got relegated just before the move as with the form you showed in the second half of 2012/13, with more money to spend and Davids in charge you could have put together a really good side at League 2 level if you'd just managed to stay up).

On the plus side, though Westley may have come a bit too late to save you, if the likely happens there are few managers better equipped and knowledgeable at that level to engineer a swift return.

 

[Urban]

Today was again the story of our season. Not too shabby in the first half, definitely the better team, hit the post and caused some problems. Second half comes around, Wycombe obviously come out stronger (as all teams have done this season - team talk is easy if you're second best to the team rock bottom of the table) and individual mistakes creep in. One penalty and free kick conceded later, we're behind by 2.

We have so many players in our team who are just not league two quality at all. Our recruitment for the last 2 seasons has been nothing short of appalling. We have a backroom team headed by Mark fucking McGhee and a chairman who has always been a prick and this is now simply becoming more publicly known (there's still so much more that goes on behind the scenes but I'm sure this will all come out soon given how other home truths/secrets are becoming known).

Our club is at an incredibly low point and I don't see a quick return, if any, when we get relegated in a few weeks. I personally think we won't be lasting many more seasons.

 

[#Beebot]

What's gone wrong with Barnet this season? Although ideally you would prefer to be playing in the borough, and I imagine many of you still miss Underhill, I was led to believe that the move to the Hive Stadium would signal an improvement on the pitch (indeed I remember there being much regret that you got relegated just before the move as with the form you showed in the second half of 2012/13, with more money to spend and Davids in charge you could have put together a really good side at League 2 level if you'd just managed to stay up).

On the plus side, though Westley may have come a bit too late to save you, if the likely happens there are few managers better equipped and knowledgeable at that level to engineer a swift return.

Where do we start? It all started to go really wrong when Martin Allen left, and I don't even massively rate MA, but here goes...

1) Horrific transfer activity - a bizarre and reckless Jan 2017 window where we spent more than in the last decade combined (estimated) mostly on players mediocre at best or just not good enough for this level. Two defensive midfielders let go and none brought in to replace them. An even worse Jan 2018 window where we let go of one of our few quality attacking players, failed to sign a striker (team averaging less than a goal a game since) and brought in an NL North winger and a 4th choice CB on deadline day, both of whom barely play and look way below the required standard when they do.

2) An unprecedented injury crisis at the start of the season in which we lost our first choice RB, LB, CM and our two first choice strikers. We have three of those five back now but Akinde looks barely a shadow of the player he was - a massive blow as our team has been built around him the last few years. Some have put the injury crisis down to bad luck, but some poor decisions were made, such as rushing a clearly unfit Akinde back leaving him out injured again for another 6 weeks.

3) Poor managerial appointments. Following Allen's departure U23 manager Rossi Eames was made caretaker with academy manager Henry Newman his assistant. It started really well, but then results began to slide amid rumours that Newman was beginning to exert more influence and did not get on with Rossi. This was compounded by the club then presenting the pair as joint managers in interviews and on teamsheets, though no formal announcement was ever made. This was to be the first bit of evidence that Eames wasn't mentally tough enough to handle the managerial role and protect his authority (more on that later).

TK rightly decided this situation couldn't continue, but rather than just sacking Newman and leaving Rossi to get on with it, TK offered Newman an upstairs role (rumoured to be DOF). Newman thankfully turned it down and left the club, but this was the first bit of evidence of something else: that TK has a serious problem with actually sacking anyone without leaving them hanging around in a backroom role. So in came Kevin Nugent as head coach - an experienced number 2, who has never managed before, with Rossi demoted to assistant. We went on a hideous run of form and picked up only one win. Nugent had an embarrassing altercation with a fan who rightly called Nugent out over not verbally abusing his own players while the match was ongoing. He was rightly sacked and replaced with Eames for the rest of the season. He again did okay and was appointed manager in the summer - but the aforementioned injuries wrecked his chances and we went on a terrible run.

TK then approached Mark McGhee to come in as DOF (note that we had a DOF already in James Thorne). He instead ended up as manager after Rossi resigned due to some of the more moronic elements of our fanbase putting some childish and nasty memes about him on social media. Pathetic behaviour sure, but pretty much every manager is going to be disliked by some idiot fans at some point - sadly, more evidence that Rossi just isn't resilient enough. Despite this, TK kept Rossi around - as "Head of Player Development", a role which supposedly involves giving academy players a hand in making progress into the first team. I'm not sure what this role entails that isn't already within the remit of the first team and academy coaching staff at any normal club, but that's BFC for you.

So anyway, McGhee comes in and immediately makes his mark with horrific team selections - one game saw him start two U18s for their league debuts despite a massive first team squad. It didn't go well and neither has been seen since. MM continued to piss everyone off with his weird obsessions with certain poor players before the fans were treated to a lengthy online QA with the chairman in which he made the ludicrous claim that MM was only a temporary appointment until a new manager was found - flying in the face of his job title and previous announcements on the club website. Many fans suspected TK simply couldn't bring himself to admit that he had appointed the wrong man, so was now retroactively claiming he was a temporary appointment - I don't know any fans who bought this.

Much to the ire of most fans, in came the hated Graham Westley with MM moving upstairs - now leaving us with two DOFs (wtf?) and two ex-managers in the backroom staff. Westley talked a good game, and performances improved - but results didn't, and following the aforementioned awful transfer window, we look toothless and his odd team selections and horrible substitutions (bringing on an LB for Akinde on Tuesday, and a CB on for a striker today) have continued to piss people off.

So that's why we are where we are. I haven't even started on the chairman's worsening relationship with the fans, including huge ticket price increases, a shoddy match day experience off the pitch (incompetent tea bars etc), increased car parking charges, closing the terrace (allegedly for safety reasons, but more likely to save on stewarding costs), and also claiming in January that we couldn't afford new signings due to low attendances - ignoring our massive squad, piss poor players on 2 year deals, and the six-figure Jan 2017 splurge.

There are admittedly some fans who have some less justifiable and increasingly wearisome beef with TK over the move to the Hive, who refuse to travel just outside the borough, but even without that we're an absolute shambles regardless.

As Urban said, I can't see us back soon and for the first time in my 15 years supporting the club I want TK gone - and it seems like those who want him gone may be becoming a majority now too.

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

 

[JJ1532]

One more win would leave Barnet needing to win half their games to catch us if we failed to pick up another point so should be about out of the equation for us if we win Tuesday.

Chesterfield would also need 11 points from 30 so win Tuesday and beat or at least take a point off them on good Friday and that will be us sorted I think.

43-44 points looks like it will do it this season.

Said the same to a friend yesterday. He is convinced we need 47 points, I think 45 will be more than enough. Yes, either Chesterfield or Barnet or both could embark on a great escape, but it just doesn't look like it will happen. To reach 45 points, Chesterfield would need to win 5 of their remaining 10 games. Barnet have 8 games left, they would need 3 wins and a draw just to hit 40. Both have got enough winnable games, but it's a big ask.

The reason Newport's escape was so dramatic was because it doesn't happen every season. They call them great escapes for a reason. I bizarrely fancy Barnet's chances better than Chesterfield's. Barnet have a very favourable run in, their game against Crewe on Good Friday is make or break for them. Win and they are back business.

Chesterfield I struggle to see a way out for because their winnable games are away from home and they can't win on the road, at all. Maybe if they somehow manage to beat Notts County next week, they have a chance, but fail to win their next 2 and I think they are done.

 

[valefan16]

Didn’t Newport’s revival begin at 12 games remaining also which has passed both Chesterfield and Barnets games left.

Barnet seem to play well in most games but were dreadful against us in a game you’d say was must win for them so the favourable run in may not matter.

The main hope for both seem to be Grimsby. Even with our 12 game run we’ve picked up draws (7) and only lost four points on where we started the bad run on both.

 

[LondonOrn]

Said the same to a friend yesterday. He is convinced we need 47 points, I think 45 will be more than enough. Yes, either Chesterfield or Barnet or both could embark on a great escape, but it just doesn't look like it will happen. To reach 45 points, Chesterfield would need to win 5 of their remaining 10 games. Barnet have 8 games left, they would need 3 wins and a draw just to hit 40. Both have got enough winnable games, but it's a big ask.

The reason Newport's escape was so dramatic was because it doesn't happen every season. They call them great escapes for a reason. I bizarrely fancy Barnet's chances better than Chesterfield's. Barnet have a very favourable run in, their game against Crewe on Good Friday is make or break for them. Win and they are back business.

After reading your post I was thinking Barnet have been involved in a number of relegation escapes in recent reasons and I checked out a fair few past league tables. Not all of them were as dramatic as Newport's, but check this one out:

https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/league-two/01-april-2011/

That was the League 2 table just before the weekend starting 2 April 2011, when Barnet won a crucial relegation six-pointer at Burton 4-1 and began their resurgence to safety (even then they were reliant on Lincoln not winning their final game at home to a lower midtable Aldershot side who had nothing to play for). After Barnet had played their 38th game (the same number of games as this season) Burton had many games in hand and the other sides most of which had at least one game in hand were miles ahead, survival looking all but impossible. Eventually relegated Lincoln were 12 points ahead with one game in hand.

In the the end, Burton still survived and not at Barnet's expense, but the point is just putting together that winning run was enough to put the fear and doubt into several sides that had previously looked secure, one of them being the one Barnet eventually overhauled.

So it can be done, and fans of teams down the bottom, Barnet and non-Barnet alike, shouldn't write them off just yet.

Obviously I can't judge the situation close at hand as I've seen very little of Barnet over the years, but I'm surprised at the pessimism expressed here. Even if Barnet do go down they've usually been a good side at that level and being in London would be attractive to good lower league players and younger ones that aren't (yet) good enough to play at a higher level. No way can I see them doing a Stockport, York or Torquay, let alone a Halifax, Chester or Hereford as I've always got the impression given their very limited resources they've been a pretty well run club - but the unfavourable opinions of Tony Kleanthous above seem to suggest differently?

 

[GTFCfish]

After looking at Chesterfield and Barnets run ins, I'm even more worried than I was before as I can't see us picking up any more than 4/5 points from our remaining games.
Honestly think we're screwed.

 

[#Beebot]

After reading your post I was thinking Barnet have been involved in a number of relegation escapes in recent reasons and I checked out a fair few past league tables. Not all of them were as dramatic as Newport's, but check this one out:

https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/league-two/01-april-2011/

That was the League 2 table just before the weekend starting 2 April 2011, when Barnet won a crucial relegation six-pointer at Burton 4-1 and began their resurgence to safety (even then they were reliant on Lincoln not winning their final game at home to a lower midtable Aldershot side who had nothing to play for). After Barnet had played their 38th game (the same number of games as this season) Burton had many games in hand and the other sides most of which had at least one game in hand were miles ahead, survival looking all but impossible. Eventually relegated Lincoln were 11 points ahead with one game in hand.

In the the end, Burton still survived and not at Barnet's expense, but the point is just putting together that winning run was enough to put the fear and doubt into several sides that had previously looked secure, one of them being the one Barnet eventually overhauled.

So it can be done, and fans of teams down the bottom, Barnet and non-Barnet alike, shouldn't write them off just yet.

Obviously I can't judge the situation close at hand as I've seen very little of Barnet over the years, but I'm surprised at the pessimism expressed here. Even if Barnet do go down they've usually been a good side at that level and being in London would be attractive to good lower league players and younger ones that aren't (yet) good enough to play at a higher level. No way can I see them doing a Stockport, York or Torquay, let alone a Halifax, Chester or Hereford as I've always got the impression given their very limited resources they've been a pretty well run club - but the unfavourable opinions of Tony Kleanthous above seem to suggest differently?

As I mentioned above we are being run horribly at the moment. We're financially secure (for now at least) but on the playing side a series of terrible decisions have been made since Allen left and I can't see it changing unless TK's attitude fundamentally changes.

The very messy backroom structure seems to hinder us when it comes to bringing players in.

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

 

[Dave-Vale]

After looking at Chesterfield and Barnets run ins, I'm even more worried than I was before as I can't see us picking up any more than 4/5 points from our remaining games.
Honestly think we're screwed.
View attachment 7978

That final day could be interesting if Barnet and Chesterfield drag themselves back into it.

 

[Red Dragon]

Westley sacked.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -time.html

 

[#Beebot]

Westley sacked.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -time.html

Great news. At least we have a glimmer of hope now. Even happier to see McGhee gone.

 

[Ban Fat Stan]

The worst news a Grimsby fan could wake up to!

 

[DarkSithLord]

Martin Allen to return for a FIFTH stint apparently..

 

[LondonOrn]

Martin Allen to return for a FIFTH stint apparently..

Wouldn't surprise me with the way Barnet have operated in recent years, yet another survival from the jaws of relegation methinks?

 

[T.A]

I hope that's the end of fucking Westley.

 

[Red Dragon]

Now confirmed on Barnets Twitter: Club Statement | #BarnetFC can this morning confirm the return of Martin Allen as Manager

 

[Luke Imp]

Barnet.

This is getting embarrassing now.