South West v North West

[TheDon]

Don, it is obvious a very distressing subject and one that I would support if Devon refused to further comment upon.
There may be others who have been similarly affected and don't want that part of history raked up.

Ok, point taken, have deleted

 

[chipmunx]

Ideally Millom should be cut off and pushed out to sea.

same with Walney

 

[chipmunx]

The proper North West ends at the northern border of Lancashire.

by your logic Barrow is in the North West as it is geographically below the Northern boundary of Lancashire - which is why Barrow used to be in Lancashire, in the area known as Lancashire over the Sands/Lancashire North of the Sands.
(Barrow is the southern most tip of Cumbria on the map)

 

[Boletus Edulis]

Ok then, if newcastle is the north east does that not make carlisle, workington etc the north west ?
If so that means the north west is from Crewe as you say up to carlisle

Isn’t Cumbria geographically south west of Newcastle?

 

[denzel ecfc]

Christ on a bike

 

[Trapdoor]

Next you'll be saying Bideford is a part of Minehead already.

 

[shoddycollins]

Isn’t Cumbria geographically south west of Newcastle?

Newcastle and Carlisle are approximately level, but Carlisle is in the North of the county and Cumbria is a big place. West Cumbria is about halfway down the coast and about level with Middlesbrough. The likes of Barrow and Kendal are level with North Yorkshire.

 

[BarraMatt]

same with Walney

Careful.

 

[Camborne Gills]

I once got told by a friend who lives in Lyme Regis, that i lived down south!!!

 

[denzel ecfc]

I once got told by a friend who lives in Lyme Regis, that i lived down south!!!

Probably some old fossil...

 

[RebornKirtonRed]

Just as a matter of interest in your opinion where does the south west start?

I've always thought that Bournemouth, Salisbury, Swindon and up as far as Worcester as south west but Reading, Oxford Basingstoke and Southampton are the south.

I can accept having to change my views.

Casey

Travelling to away games means 90 miles up the M5 before we even start so as far as I'm concerned our South-West begins and ends at Avonmouth and pretty much straight down to Weymouth.........Bristol from the M5 is very much it's own shithole frontier town which is at best a welcoming indication of all things good either side of it.

 

[Essex2Wessex]

This is a really interesting thread (some of the government regions seem odd to me though: I mean, Luton is in the "east of England"? Up to a point, maybe....) And living basically half-way between Oxford and Swindon, it feels like: the south-west (both officially and in terms of cultural identity) starts about five or ten miles to the west, the midlands maybe fifteen to twenty miles to the north, and the south-east probably a similar distance to the south or east (in say, Newbury, or somewhere between Didcot and Reading). The boundaries are are all ambiguous, even if Central TV don't have studios round here any more. It's also undeniable that while Oxford lingers somewhere between the "south Midlands" (not a term used much now) and the south-east, once you get out to the city suburbs, and especially the working class ones, people have what is basically a west-country accent, and the Cotswolds dominate the landscape around the city....

The historic decline of the small clubs in the NW is one of the big, long-term, stories, in English football: back in the day, Preston North End and Bolton Wanderers were, well, one might almost say, world-beaters in their context. And in terms of density of league clubs per head of population, I presume that Lancashire (if we use pre-1974 boundaries, certainly), must still be ahead of any other county.

Growth in the SW? Not sure if I can see it or not. I'd really like it to happen. (At the expense of the egg-chasers, bring it on). Most of the clubs are basically well-run and also decently run (not a hint of a Steve Dale or Ken Anderson around any of them at present, which is not to say that Swindon have not had some colourful characters associated with them at various times and maybe still do, a bit).

Plymouth's loyal, vast, widely spread army of fans is almost a unique thing in its own right (for a club at below-Championship level at least). Exeter's fan-ownership model seems (and hopefully will continue to be, post-post-pandemic) seems admirable and probably more substainable than that of other clubs that have tried similar things. (They also cheat less habitually than Wycombe, so there is that too, for all the wild ride that they are on). Swindon would probably be offended to be described as a "community club" (as I think Cheltenham are too, in the rather different social and cultural contexts of each of those towns) - in terms of having a strong and loyal local support base and real connection with the town they are in - and evidently aspire to more - but they are a good thing (in a way that Oxford Utd isn't, ha!).

And the Bristol clubs are the Bristol clubs. Both with solid (if not neccesarily growing) support bases. In one of the weirdest and most divided big cities in England, for good measure. The Gas do need a new ground, I think. And hope their plans for one work out.

I worry about what is going to happen with FGR when we make the move to "Eco Park". Dale Vince has been great at attracting long-distance support (both within the UK and internationally) because of his eco stance, etc, but ultimately, that's not the bread and butter that gets the crowds in (in as much as we have crowds) every week. But at the expense of either neglecting or in some cases alienating (although in some cases this is exagaratted by vocal online elements) some of the more traditional support base. I for one will miss walking up that bloody steep hill (and walking down one or other of the steep hills afterwards). And the sublime atmosphere and banter that comes from the long-standing fans - will that translate to a new stadium? The little club on the hill, not on the hill any more: I still have images of Rushden and Diamonds in my mind, which I would hope to dispel, but I'm not quite convinced I can do so yet. (The scope for Gloucester City, now they are back in Gloucester, to get into League Two, which seems real - is that a threat or an opportunity? In principle Gloucester and the neighbouring areas would be an obvious area for FGR's excellent community work - school ambassadors and so on - to grow new fans)

It also seems weird to me that a county as relatively big and diverse as Kent only has one league team.

 

[Casey]

West Sussex is big and diverse as well and only has us as a league team. In fact the next highest club is Worthing who are hoping to get promoted to the National South.

We do have Brighton (East Sussex),Crystal Palace (Surrey) and Portsmouth (Hampshire) right on our doorsteps though.

Casey

 

[Topher]

West Sussex is big and diverse as well and only has us as a league team. In fact the next highest club is Worthing who are hoping to get promoted to the National South.

We do have Brighton (East Sussex),Crystal Palace (Surrey) and Portsmouth (Hampshire) right on our doorsteps though.

Casey

you missed out Rustington Otters

 

[valefan16]

Football in its infancy boomed in the North West of course (good little mini series on Netflix I think it is the English game that dramatised it).

Obviously it took off mainly through Eton but once the FA cup and mill towns in the North got into it, made it professional and it gave these deprived towns something to follow then it boomed. Clubs you think of that still float in the EFL plus clubs lost from the top end like Darwen, Blackburn Olympic etc

So always be that core in the North but the Southern clubs outside of London have generally not done much at the very top. Have any won the top flight outside of the London from below the Midlands?

Further down though is much changing? Exeter are where they usually are floating between L1 and 2, Plymouth have done the same despite large fan bases in the main, Bristol Rovers similarly?

You’ve had more push into the EFL with FGR, Cheltenham of course since the turn of the millennium but so have Fleetwood and Barrow for instance.

In terms of overall success though its London or the NW apart from the one miracle season by Leicester City, no one outside of these two areas in the EPL era.

 

[SELatic]

It also seems weird to me that a county as relatively big and diverse as Kent only has one league team.

I think Kent ‘suffers’ from having London on the doorstep with easy train links in from most of the county. Crystal Palace, Millwall and Charlton are all the right side of London and the latter have historically done a lot of work recruiting fans from Kent. IIRC, when they were in the premier league, they had supporters coaches which would pick up fans from various Kent towns.

You’ve then also got Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, West Ham, Fulham and Brighton all within fairly easy reach.

This isn’t unique to Kent of course as many of the Greater Manchester/ Lancashire clubs will testify but I think it does explain why there’s only one professional club exists at the moment.

There’s also a raft of well established non-league sides like Dover, Dartford, Bromley, Maidstone etc

 

[Si Robin]

Football in its infancy boomed in the North West of course (good little mini series on Netflix I think it is the English game that dramatised it).

Obviously it took off mainly through Eton but once the FA cup and mill towns in the North got into it, made it professional and it gave these deprived towns something to follow then it boomed. Clubs you think of that still float in the EFL plus clubs lost from the top end like Darwen, Blackburn Olympic etc

So always be that core in the North but the Southern clubs outside of London have generally not done much at the very top. Have any won the top flight outside of the London from below the Midlands?

Further down though is much changing? Exeter are where they usually are floating between L1 and 2, Plymouth have done the same despite large fan bases in the main, Bristol Rovers similarly?

You’ve had more push into the EFL with FGR, Cheltenham of course since the turn of the millennium but so have Fleetwood and Barrow for instance.

In terms of overall success though its London or the NW apart from the one miracle season by Leicester City, no one outside of these two areas in the EPL era.

Portsmouth have won the League twice in consecutive seasons at the end of the 40s, Ipswich in 1962 as well.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any more than that though.

 

[E10rifle]

Oh dear. As per usual you’re all just waiting for London to tell you what to think and do. Here is the actual geography of the country as dictated by your betters:

London: The epicentre of the entire world
Anywhere north of the Watford Gap: The North
Anywhere West of Hounslow: Bumpkins
Surrey: Croydon’s back garden
Essex: An embarrassment
Kent: France

Hope that helps.

 

[FGR Stroud]

Portsmouth have won the League twice in consecutive seasons at the end of the 40s, Ipswich in 1962 as well.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any more than that though.

List of English football champions - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Full list of all English football champions.
Not fully looked through it but in early days it was the NW and Midlands [Aston Villa] that were the main winners.
Arsenal, first club from London, did not win championship until 1930-31.
Sunderland & Newcastle were big beasts in the first part of last century.

 

[shoddycollins]

This is a really interesting thread (some of the government regions seem odd to me though: I mean, Luton is in the "east of England"? Up to a point, maybe....)

I think that's the reason why they call the region 'East of England' rather than 'East Anglia' because it includes a lot of other places that are in the same region mainly because they have economic and geographic things in common rather than any cultural connection.

 

[shoddycollins]

List of English football champions - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Full list of all English football champions.
Not fully looked through it but in early days it was the NW and Midlands [Aston Villa] that were the main winners.
Arsenal, first club from London, did not win championship until 1930-31.
Sunderland & Newcastle were big beasts in the first part of last century.
View attachment 13516

My thoughts with the South-West weren't really that there would be a League Champion from there any time soon, the big teams in the Premier League are very much that, they have history and geography doesn't really matter to them any more, they're that big. It would take a long time for the region to be represented in the Championship by anyone other than Bristol City and Bournemouth with any regularity but for small teams, it just seems like a very 'up and coming' area, and I think a relatively high proportion of clubs in the South West are being run sustainably and moving in the right direction.

 

[FGR Stroud]

My thoughts with the South-West weren't really that there would be a League Champion from there any time soon, the big teams in the Premier League are very much that, they have history and geography doesn't really matter to them any more, they're that big. It would take a long time for the region to be represented in the Championship by anyone other than Bristol City and Bournemouth with any regularity but for small teams, it just seems like a very 'up and coming' area, and I think a relatively high proportion of clubs in the South West are being run sustainably and moving in the right direction.

You are right that it is only Bristol City who could conceivably represent the West Country in the Premiership.
FGR have ambitions to become a permanent Championship team within the not too distant future, but the Premiership would be a step too high.
Bristol Rovers have strong support and could also become a Championship team, but of the rest a fleeting appearance in League 1 would be a crowning achievement.

 

[E10rifle]

FGR have ambitions to become a permanent Championship team within the not too distant future, but the Premiership would be a step too high.

Good job you’re in the easiest division to get out of, then.

 

[Trapdoor]

FGR can have all the ambition they want but as soon as Ecotricity fark off they will be back down to the Hellenic League.

 

[Si Robin]

If they still exist...

 

[masi51]

Lancashire Gods country
Merseyside City Centre good the rest get out quick
Yorkshire Poor mans Lancashire
Cumbria Poison Acidic rain . Sea glows with Radiation
Cheshire manchester/scouse overspill of crooks
Potteries What England looked like around 1945
Geordies Jock castoffs
Lincolnshire 6 fingers
Birmingham Wannabee peaky Blinders
London 3 world City
Devon Cornwall Country Bumkins
Kent full of em
Essex talk like someones squeezing theire balls

 

[shoddycollins]

FGR can have all the ambition they want but as soon as Ecotricity fark off they will be back down to the Hellenic League.

Be interesting to see what happens to them if and when the Ecotricity money runs out. Especially if they're in the Championship with a brand-spanking new stadium by them. I can't see Dale Vince getting bored, he's clearly very attached in the club and he is local to the area though he wasn't born there, but nothing lasts forever, he may 'retire' from ownership of Ecotricity and therefore FGR, the Eco-park could flop, or Ecotricity could run into financial difficulties and leave FGR looking for a new owner. He does say that he's building the club sustainably (in the financial sense as well as the environmental one) but will it be enough?

I doubt they'd remain in the Championship without a wealthy owner but if he's a man of his world then they'll be self-sustaining enough with low overheads and a source of income from the Eco-park. I think given a few years they'll be able to sustain themselves in League One without investment but would probably have to give up on the eco-friendly vegan thing if they didn't have Dale Vince to make sure everyone knows how important it is.

 

[denzel ecfc]

Lancashire Gods country
Merseyside City Centre good the rest get out quick
Yorkshire Poor mans Lancashire
Cumbria Poison Acidic rain . Sea glows with Radiation
Cheshire manchester/scouse overspill of crooks
Potteries What England looked like around 1945
Geordies Jock castoffs
Lincolnshire 6 fingers
Birmingham Wannabee peaky Blinders
London 3 world City
Devon Cornwall Country Bumkins
Kent full of em
Essex talk like someones squeezing theire balls

At least we can spell bumpkins.

 

[Camborne Gills]

This is a really interesting thread (some of the government regions seem odd to me though: I mean, Luton is in the "east of England"? Up to a point, maybe....) And living basically half-way between Oxford and Swindon, it feels like: the south-west (both officially and in terms of cultural identity) starts about five or ten miles to the west, the midlands maybe fifteen to twenty miles to the north, and the south-east probably a similar distance to the south or east (in say, Newbury, or somewhere between Didcot and Reading). The boundaries are are all ambiguous, even if Central TV don't have studios round here any more. It's also undeniable that while Oxford lingers somewhere between the "south Midlands" (not a term used much now) and the south-east, once you get out to the city suburbs, and especially the working class ones, people have what is basically a west-country accent, and the Cotswolds dominate the landscape around the city....

The historic decline of the small clubs in the NW is one of the big, long-term, stories, in English football: back in the day, Preston North End and Bolton Wanderers were, well, one might almost say, world-beaters in their context. And in terms of density of league clubs per head of population, I presume that Lancashire (if we use pre-1974 boundaries, certainly), must still be ahead of any other county.

Growth in the SW? Not sure if I can see it or not. I'd really like it to happen. (At the expense of the egg-chasers, bring it on). Most of the clubs are basically well-run and also decently run (not a hint of a Steve Dale or Ken Anderson around any of them at present, which is not to say that Swindon have not had some colourful characters associated with them at various times and maybe still do, a bit).

Plymouth's loyal, vast, widely spread army of fans is almost a unique thing in its own right (for a club at below-Championship level at least). Exeter's fan-ownership model seems (and hopefully will continue to be, post-post-pandemic) seems admirable and probably more substainable than that of other clubs that have tried similar things. (They also cheat less habitually than Wycombe, so there is that too, for all the wild ride that they are on). Swindon would probably be offended to be described as a "community club" (as I think Cheltenham are too, in the rather different social and cultural contexts of each of those towns) - in terms of having a strong and loyal local support base and real connection with the town they are in - and evidently aspire to more - but they are a good thing (in a way that Oxford Utd isn't, ha!).

And the Bristol clubs are the Bristol clubs. Both with solid (if not neccesarily growing) support bases. In one of the weirdest and most divided big cities in England, for good measure. The Gas do need a new ground, I think. And hope their plans for one work out.

I worry about what is going to happen with FGR when we make the move to "Eco Park". Dale Vince has been great at attracting long-distance support (both within the UK and internationally) because of his eco stance, etc, but ultimately, that's not the bread and butter that gets the crowds in (in as much as we have crowds) every week. But at the expense of either neglecting or in some cases alienating (although in some cases this is exagaratted by vocal online elements) some of the more traditional support base. I for one will miss walking up that bloody steep hill (and walking down one or other of the steep hills afterwards). And the sublime atmosphere and banter that comes from the long-standing fans - will that translate to a new stadium? The little club on the hill, not on the hill any more: I still have images of Rushden and Diamonds in my mind, which I would hope to dispel, but I'm not quite convinced I can do so yet. (The scope for Gloucester City, now they are back in Gloucester, to get into League Two, which seems real - is that a threat or an opportunity? In principle Gloucester and the neighbouring areas would be an obvious area for FGR's excellent community work - school ambassadors and so on - to grow new fans)

It also seems weird to me that a county as relatively big and diverse as Kent only has one league team.

Cornwall is probably the worst represented county. not just in football, but rugby as well.

Truro bring in the 7th tier, and Redruth RFC in the 4th level (i think)

 

[Si Robin]

Aren't Cornish Pirates in the 2nd tier?