The Coalition of Expensive Chaos

[mnb089mnb]

You seem amazed by the concept of a gay posh man. You do realise the only thing that's mutually exclusive for gay males is a sexual attraction towards females, right!?

Gay, posh and from Sheffield.

Sounds unlikely to be.

 

[blade1889]

Gay, posh and from Sheffield.

Sounds unlikely to be.

Some people just don't have any luck. You forgot Tory to add into the mix. At least I'm not ginger though.

Dont think I'm frightfully posh though. Southerners still know I'm Northern.

 

[Stagat]

What's up with being ginger?

 

[blade1889]

What's up with being ginger?

Sun burn

 

[Hooped Wizard]

It is of no surprise that a gay votes for the Conservatives seen as we have always been the party of equality.

Although having said that I hope you were at the gay meeting for a quick shag and not some weird shit.

 

[silkyman]

https://secure.greenpeace.org.uk/no-hinkley

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

"The new nuclear plant he wants to build at Hinkley in Somerset is set to be the most expensive object on Earth"

 

[Tilbury]

So the government was defeated in its attempt to relax Sunday trading regulation by 31 votes, including 27 rebellious tories.
Good news for many people who work in the service industry. What is not so great is the 15% rise in number of people on zero-hour contracts, to 801,000, last year.

 

[Alty]

So the government was defeated in its attempt to relax Sunday trading regulation by 31 votes, including 27 rebellious tories.
Good news for many people who work in the service industry. What is not so great is the 15% rise in number of people on zero-hour contracts, to 801,000, last year.

TBH I'd have been in favour if there was something in the Enterprise Bill stipulating that workers were guaranteed to get paid extra (I don't know if there was but I presume not).

Not sure how the SNP can justify their stance when all this doesn't apply to Scotland after they made such a song and dance about EVEL.

 

[smat]

I think it's good that the move was defeated. The change might have brought about a little more economic growth (although during the Olympics, when longer Sundays were allowed for two months, retail sales actually went down), but is that all it boils down to? A balance-sheet calculation?

Even if it does, Tesco and Asda being open for longer hours on Sunday is only going to destroy the Sunday sales of your local off-license. That can't be good, can it?

Research suggests that Sunday workers have less time with family and less time for relaxation. There are certain things you can do on weekends that you can't do on, say, a Tuesday afternoon. Eg have lunch with your family, take your nine-year-old son Beefmouth to his soccer game, or your daughter Khattermole to her soccer game. The UK is already the third worst in Europe at family life. Why would we want to go in the other direction?

Thanks for reading.

 

[Alty]

I think it's good that the move was defeated. The change might have brought about a little more economic growth (although during the Olympics, when longer Sundays were allowed for two months, retail sales actually went down), but is that all it boils down to? A balance-sheet calculation?

Even if it does, Tesco and Asda being open for longer hours on Sunday is only going to destroy the Sunday sales of your local off-license. That can't be good, can it?

Research suggests that Sunday workers have less time with family and less time for relaxation. There are certain things you can do on weekends that you can't do on, say, a Tuesday afternoon. Eg have lunch with your family, take your nine-year-old son Beefmouth to his soccer game, or your daughter Khattermole to her soccer game. The UK is already the third worst in Europe at family life. Why would we want to go in the other direction?

Thanks for reading.

All valid concerns. But to go back to very straightforward principles, if I want to work on Sunday, and my boss wants to give me hours on Sunday, and my customers want to come into my shop on Sunday, why should Government block that?

I agree that Sundays are different and for that reason I'd legislate to ensure people are adequately compensated (TBH I'd do that for all weekend work). But I'm not sure an arbitrary cut off point makes much sense.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

The SNP voting on an issue that doesn't affect Scotland and is a measure they themselves implemented in Scotland is pretty funny, and only makes a stronger case for EVEL. Personally not fussed either way about the changes, it's not exactly hard to get done whatever you need to do within Sunday hours as it is, not sure it's really necessary to extend. However the SNP's actions are curious.

I know when I worked in retail and did sunday, I was paid a little brucey bonus few pennies an hour extra for sunday, but that's down to the company obviously. At the end of the day it's on a rota, working a sunday meant I had day(s) off elsewhere. Didn't really think much of it.

 

[smat]

All valid concerns. But to go back to very straightforward principles, if I want to work on Sunday, and my boss wants to give me hours on Sunday, and my customers want to come into my shop on Sunday, why should Government block that?

I agree that Sundays are different and for that reason I'd legislate to ensure people are adequately compensated (TBH I'd do that for all weekend work). But I'm not sure an arbitrary cut off point makes much sense.

It's not arbitrary. Throughout human history and across many cultures, Sunday has been a day of rest and spiritual contemplation. In many languages, the word for Sunday means "the Lord's day". I knew that from the moment I looked it up on Wikipedia two or three moments ago. It's important to rest even if we don't see any theological significance in Sundays. We need to look after our physical and emotional well-being more. We don't need any more time to shop.

If you really, really, really are desperate to work on a Sunday for some reason, you can work in a pub or a cinema or become a Premier League footballer registered to a club perennially in the Europa League, like Tottenham Hotspur or Liverpool, or basically anything not in retail.

Or could we hold to account those businesses who pay their staff so little that they're forced to beg for weekend work to feed their kids! IMVHO.

 

[Stagat]

We don't need any more time to shop, Matthew, but neither do we need to be told when to shop and when to rest and when to work and when to be spiritually contemplative.

Well I don't anyway. Dunno about you suckers.

 

[smat]

We don't need any more time to shop, Matthew, but neither do we need to be told when to shop and when to rest and when to work and when to be spiritually contemplative.

Well I don't anyway. Dunno about you suckers.

It's not about taking away the choice, it's about protecting something - ANYTHING - in our lives from the profit motive. I suspect I'll be on the wrong side of history here, as society is only going in one direction on this, despite the recent reprieve. We're working more, for longer, for less. Goody.

Don't you live in China or something, anyway? What's Sunday like there?

 

[Alty]

It's not arbitrary. Throughout human history and across many cultures, Sunday has been a day of rest and spiritual contemplation. In many languages, the word for Sunday means "the Lord's day". I knew that from the moment I looked it up on Wikipedia two or three moments ago. It's important to rest even if we don't see any theological significance in Sundays. We need to look after our physical and emotional well-being more. We don't need any more time to shop.

If you really, really, really are desperate to work on a Sunday for some reason, you can work in a pub or a cinema or become a Premier League footballer registered to a club perennially in the Europa League, like Tottenham Hotspur or Liverpool, or basically anything not in retail.

Or could we hold to account those businesses who pay their staff so little that they're forced to beg for weekend work to feed their kids! IMVHO.

Would you do away with Sunday trading altogether, then? In the name of improving health and well-being and giving people time to spend with friends and family?

 

[smat]

Would you do away with Sunday trading altogether, then? In the name of improving health and well-being and giving people time to spend with friends and family?

That would probably be throwing one's baby out with the bathwater. Well-being is usually inextricably linked to having a job and earning a wage in the first place. Scrapping Sunday trading as it is altogether would obv have knock-on negative impacts for many businesses and therefore negative impacts for many employees, which would defeat the object. So no.

 

[silkyman]

The two incredibly 'wrong' elements of this - ie law being made to pander to religion, and the Scottish having a vote on England/Wales issues - aside, I'm pretty meh on the actual concept of extended opening hours.

The wife spent her entire career in retail and management. She's always worked Sundays. And when she got into management it was every weekend. The extra couple of hours on a Sunday wouldn't actually make that much difference. It's not like you can arrange a family day out for 8.30 - 10.30am then pick it up again at 5.00pm.

Retail staff are paid hourly so at least it would have meant more money in people's pockets and even generated new jobs for people.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

It is of no surprise that a gay votes for the Conservatives seen as we have always been the party of equality.

cough cough section 28 cough cough

 

[Stagat]

It's not about taking away the choice, it's about protecting something - ANYTHING - in our lives from the profit motive. I suspect I'll be on the wrong side of history here, as society is only going in one direction on this, despite the recent reprieve. We're working more, for longer, for less. Goody.

Don't you live in China or something, anyway? What's Sunday like there?

I do live in China at the minute mate, yeah. And Sunday here is loads better than back at home because everything is open as normal.

Pretty sure this will go off topic as I've not lived or worked in the UK since the last decade and I've had a few Kirins tonight but.

Shops being open on Sundays here is great. As it is on weekday nights too btw. You say we don't need more time to shop but I say our high streets need to give us more opportunity to do so if they don't want to die completely.

A few dudes working late or on Sundays is for the greater good. I know Mansfield is a ghost town on Sunday afternoons and week day nights and full of pissed up idiots on Friday and Saturday nights. Unless you're drunk or looking for someone to mug, it's a horrible place to be.

Here though, with all the shops open, the high street is a bloody lovely place to spend any evening or Sunday. So why not try that back there?

Have shops open. Let people go shopping. Have more shoppers in the streets than drunkards. The place will be nicer. More people will wanna go. The high street might get a second wind. Or it might not. But why not try.

Aye, it would mean people working evenings and Sundays. But for the greater good, let them. Why not. Don't make them. But let them.

Nowt to do with H&M's or Debenhams' or Next's profits. Couldn't care less. Just let our towns and cities be nice places until 10pm, 7 days a week, and not desolate hell holes after 5pm and all day Sundays.

But that could just be Mansfield I guess.

"We're working more, for longer, for less. Goody." - smat

This is probably going to be massively idealistic but I wish more firms would take the lead in breaking what is an unbelievably outdated daily working pattern.

I think I remember reading you work from home a few days a week and a few days in the office. Is there any real reason you couldn't work from home every day?

If there isn't, why does your company (and/or countless others) insist on (a) making you commute and (b) paying for office space for you guys?

And if people aren't like answering phones or summat else that needs you to be there between the traditional times, then why do we even need to be working 9-5 any more anyway?

Again, idealistic, but why can't you just be trusted to do the work that needs doing at a time best for you? Why can't your company let you roll up when you want so long as you stay until your work's done?

Them mornings when you wake up at 6 and can't get back to sleep - go in, get your work done, leave early. Sleep in a bit? Never mind. Go in later, stay later.

If a dude is at work for 8 hours a day, how much work will he actually get done? 4 hours' worth? Then why not give him 4 hours' worth of work and tell him he can go home once he's done it? Give him a Pomodoro timer and he'll be out of there before 2pm guaranteed, and far happier about coming in tomorrow than if you've held him captive until 5pm for no reason.

"We're working more, for longer, for less. Goody." - smat

TBH fixing this is summat you should probably take the lead with if we're being honest. Your company ain't gonna change.

Just do summat you care about.

I bet you'll happily be working at least 12 hours a day on your comedy if need be once it becomes your full time job (I have faith, smat).

If you took a Sunday off that (to go shopping until 10pm), Monday would be your favourite day of the week coz you'd be back on it writing them killer quips. People say they hate Mondays but they don't. It's the jobs they hate. Do summat you care about and Monday is the best day of the week. If it ain't then you're doing summat wrong.

Wanting to protect Sunday as the day of rest (if your post was even serious) is like wanting to protect the 9-5 rat race way of life and we're better than that, you and me, Matthew.

The high streets are full of twats on weekday nights and Sunday instead of the civilized shoppers they need to make our towns and cities places folk wanna go to again.

Let folk work and give the town centres half a fucking chance while you're at it.

And let go of this notion (<----- anyone who still holds it ) of Sunday being a day of rest, of Monday being shit, and of Friday being the start of the weekend maaate and realise that every day's a day to be doing summat you enjoy, or summat that progresses your life, or at the very least summat you don't hate, and stop fucking worrying about this one day in every seven being besmirched or one day in seven somehow automatically being worse than any of the others because I just spent two days doing nowt and now I have to actually do summat ffs when the people looking to actually do shit with their lives have moved on and so should you.

"despite the recent reprieve" - smat

Setback.

"as society is only going in one direction on this" - smat

It is.

"I suspect I'll be on the wrong side of history here" - smat

It's not too late mate.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

the world's economy would fall apart if we all became wandering hipster e-nomads

 

[Alty]

the world's economy would fall apart if we all became wandering hipster e-nomads

Agreed. It was a very nicely written load of naive nonsense though.

 

[smat]

I do live in China at the minute mate, yeah. And Sunday here is loads better than back at home because everything is open as normal.

Pretty sure this will go off topic as I've not lived or worked in the UK since the last decade and I've had a few Kirins tonight but.

Shops being open on Sundays here is great. As it is on weekday nights too btw. You say we don't need more time to shop but I say our high streets need to give us more opportunity to do so if they don't want to die completely.

A few dudes working late or on Sundays is for the greater good. I know Mansfield is a ghost town on Sunday afternoons and week day nights and full of pissed up idiots on Friday and Saturday nights. Unless you're drunk or looking for someone to mug, it's a horrible place to be.

Here though, with all the shops open, the high street is a bloody lovely place to spend any evening or Sunday. So why not try that back there?

Have shops open. Let people go shopping. Have more shoppers in the streets than drunkards. The place will be nicer. More people will wanna go. The high street might get a second wind. Or it might not. But why not try.

Aye, it would mean people working evenings and Sundays. But for the greater good, let them. Why not. Don't make them. But let them.

Nowt to do with H&M's or Debenhams' or Next's profits. Couldn't care less. Just let our towns and cities be nice places until 10pm, 7 days a week, and not desolate hell holes after 5pm and all day Sundays.

But that could just be Mansfield I guess.

"We're working more, for longer, for less. Goody." - smat

This is probably going to be massively idealistic but I wish more firms would take the lead in breaking what is an unbelievably outdated daily working pattern.

I think I remember reading you work from home a few days a week and a few days in the office. Is there any real reason you couldn't work from home every day?

If there isn't, why does your company (and/or countless others) insist on (a) making you commute and (b) paying for office space for you guys?

And if people aren't like answering phones or summat else that needs you to be there between the traditional times, then why do we even need to be working 9-5 any more anyway?

Again, idealistic, but why can't you just be trusted to do the work that needs doing at a time best for you? Why can't your company let you roll up when you want so long as you stay until your work's done?

Them mornings when you wake up at 6 and can't get back to sleep - go in, get your work done, leave early. Sleep in a bit? Never mind. Go in later, stay later.

If a dude is at work for 8 hours a day, how much work will he actually get done? 4 hours' worth? Then why not give him 4 hours' worth of work and tell him he can go home once he's done it? Give him a Pomodoro timer and he'll be out of there before 2pm guaranteed, and far happier about coming in tomorrow than if you've held him captive until 5pm for no reason.

"We're working more, for longer, for less. Goody." - smat

TBH fixing this is summat you should probably take the lead with if we're being honest. Your company ain't gonna change.

Just do summat you care about.

I bet you'll happily be working at least 12 hours a day on your comedy if need be once it becomes your full time job (I have faith, smat).

If you took a Sunday off that (to go shopping until 10pm), Monday would be your favourite day of the week coz you'd be back on it writing them killer quips. People say they hate Mondays but they don't. It's the jobs they hate. Do summat you care about and Monday is the best day of the week. If it ain't then you're doing summat wrong.

Wanting to protect Sunday as the day of rest (if your post was even serious) is like wanting to protect the 9-5 rat race way of life and we're better than that, you and me, Matthew.

The high streets are full of twats on weekday nights and Sunday instead of the civilized shoppers they need to make our towns and cities places folk wanna go to again.

Let folk work and give the town centres half a fucking chance while you're at it.

And let go of this notion (<----- anyone who still holds it ) of Sunday being a day of rest, of Monday being shit, and of Friday being the start of the weekend maaate and realise that every day's a day to be doing summat you enjoy, or summat that progresses your life, or at the very least summat you don't hate, and stop fucking worrying about this one day in every seven being besmirched or one day in seven somehow automatically being worse than any of the others because I just spent two days doing nowt and now I have to actually do summat ffs when the people looking to actually do shit with their lives have moved on and so should you.

"despite the recent reprieve" - smat

Setback.

"as society is only going in one direction on this" - smat

It is.

"I suspect I'll be on the wrong side of history here" - smat

It's not too late mate.

Absolutely no way am I reading all this.

 

[mnb089mnb]

What Stagat says isn't naive. It's the way work patterns are going to have to go in the next few years. 9-5 is the past. I work from home two days a week, and I think it's unlikely I'll ever go back to 5 days a week in an office. It's bad for the company I work for, and it's bad for me.

 

[mnb089mnb]

All valid concerns. But to go back to very straightforward principles, if I want to work on Sunday, and my boss wants to give me hours on Sunday, and my customers want to come into my shop on Sunday, why should Government block that?

A bit naive, as I think people would effectively be forced to work Sundays. You could make a similar argument about the minimum wage, I imagine.

 

[Tilbury]

Well shops can still open for 6 hours on a Sunday, it's a fair compromise for those who want to shop versus those who don't want to work the full day I feel.

 

[Alty]

What Stagat says isn't naive. It's the way work patterns are going to have to go in the next few years. 9-5 is the past. I work from home two days a week, and I think it's unlikely I'll ever go back to 5 days a week in an office. It's bad for the company I work for, and it's bad for me.

I agree there's going to be more flexibility in the workplace in future, but only for certain people in certain industries. You can't work from home or swan in whenever you like if you work in the service industry. Health professionals need to be around at specific times. And there are countless other examples. Although the civil service is very good about flexible working, there's no way I could be away from the office at set times on workday.

 

[mnb089mnb]

I agree there's going to be more flexibility in the workplace in future, but only for certain people in certain industries. You can't work from home or swan in whenever you like if you work in the service industry. Health professionals need to be around at specific times. And there are countless other examples. Although the civil service is very good about flexible working, there's no way I could be away from the office at set times on workday.

There are loads of jobs where people are forced into working 9-5 in at a location when they could have done their job from home. Or moved to a 8-4 or 7-3 pattern to avoid traffic. Really inefficient way of running an economy or business.

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

There are loads of jobs where people are forced into working 9-5 in at a location when they could have done their job from home. Or moved to a 8-4 or 7-3 pattern to avoid traffic. Really inefficient way of running an economy or business.

I agree. We are so stubborn in this country and reluctant to move to a truly flexible working pattern. Things are improving but even at my place, many people can, and do, work from home but there's still that feeling that it's frowned upon if it's regular. It's bizarre that most people still commute to an office when there's no need to.

 

[Alty]

Gideon squirming a bit on Marr on the topic of saving money by giving disabled people less.