The Cricket Thread

[lordofthepies]

On a brighter note, I'm going to the IPL game between Kolkata and Hyderabad tonight at Eden Gardens. I'm not usually much of a T20 fan but I can't help but be excited about this.

 

[.V.]

Moores out and Vaughan in please ECB.

 

[LeoRahi]

On a brighter note, I'm going to the IPL game between Kolkata and Hyderabad tonight at Eden Gardens. I'm not usually much of a T20 fan but I can't help but be excited about this.

What are you doing in India in the hotter part of the year ? It's unbearable!

 

[.V.]

Strauss to be the new director of English cricket *shakes head*

 

[lordofthepies]

What are you doing in India in the hotter part of the year ? It's unbearable!

We're on a bigger trip and this is the only time we could get here. The timing for the other countries worked out quite nicely. We also spent most of our first three of weeks in India in Darjeeling and Sikkim, which were actually pretty cold. The heat in Kolkata is quite uncomfortable and the next 2 weeks (Allahabad, Lucknow, Amritsar and Delhi) are going to be really bloody hot.

 

[Saddlerrad]

Bairstow is a technically poor batsmen, stick with Buttler and he will come good - he will be better than Prior eventually IMO. Not every player is going to be a brillant finished article after X amount of games in the England side. However, that was a dreadful test tour Anderson aside. Loads of big questions for me.

Trott, got to go?
Bell, consistent enough, pushing on age wise?
Buttler - Ali - Stokes? That's going to be marmite. All 3 out in 5 overs, or they score 200 in 250 balls at the end of an innings.
Jordan as 3rd seamer? Nope. Good fielder, nothing more, send him back to the county scene.
Stokes as a 4th seamer? Yes for me. Think wickets will fly for him soon.
Moores? Nope. Goodbye. NEVER bring someone back into a changing room that failed there before, especially with players still in it.

I'm not even sure the likes of KP are going to be the way forward for the future now either. I'd prefer players like Hales/Taylor/Vince/Roy making their way into the side. Can be offensive and score at a good rate, but have just enough technique about them to make it as test players. There are some big holes to fill for me .

For me.

Cook

Ballance
Bell
Root

Stokes
Buttler

Broad

Anderson





That's my side at the moment. Fit who you like around it. Looking into the future and not who is likely to play in the NZ series in a couple of weeks. Jordan is a no for me, Ali - is he consistent enough? Someone just spend 2 months with Rashid teaching him to bowl 5mph faster. We need a proper 90mph, quick, powerful bowler (IE Finn before we ruined him), perhaps someone like Tymal Mills, it would be more like Plunkett for now. Get Rashid in there, he can bat as well. Stick Hales in with Cook, Root in at 4 and Taylor at 5. Bell isn't in there because he's getting on, not because I don't rate him, but the innings goes nowhere until Root comes in at 5. Lads barely an experienced veteran, he carries the side quite often which is a joke.

In the top 4 you have someone with Tempo (Hales) and some proper test players in Cook and Ballance around him. You have Root in at 4, someone to build the innings around, he keeps the board ticking over but can soak up pressure and turn an innings back in our favour. Taylor I like, good solid little nugget of a player. Stokes, Buttler and Rashid to add some late quick runs. Rashid a proper official spinner. Broad is Broad. Mills is quick, young and interestingly a left armer and well Jimmy is our saviour.



Cook
Hales
Ballance
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Buttler
Rashid
Broad
Mills
Anderson


In reality, a team ready for NZ would be.

Cook
Lyth
Ballance
Bell
Root
Ali
Stokes
Buttler
Broad
Plunkett
Anderson

One suspects Moores will still be in charge and the only change will be Trott out Lyth in. If we persist with this 11 vs NZ, they will smash us. They are on a rollercoaster ride at the moment, confident, playing well - better than us. Southee and Boult are classy bowlers. McCullum can be painfully good if he gets through the moving ball (something he has struggled with in England before) and the Williamson, is our version of Root. Excellent player.

The one positive from this series? Well, the last time we toured poorly to the Windies, the following 4 years were brillant....

 

[lordofthepies]

Tymal Mills is talented but hugely wayward. I hope he makes it, but he's done nothing yet. He is barely ready for the county championship, playing him in the test team would be madness.

 

[Pyeman]

Strauss to be the new director of English cricket *shakes head*

I read somewhere that Vaughan has 'ended his interest in the role'. Anyone know anything about this? If he has withdrawn himself from the race, I'd be keen to know why.

 

[Pyeman]

Bairstow is a technically poor batsmen, stick with Buttler and he will come good - he will be better than Prior eventually IMO. Not every player is going to be a brillant finished article after X amount of games in the England side. However, that was a dreadful test tour Anderson aside. Loads of big questions for me.

Trott, got to go?
Bell, consistent enough, pushing on age wise?
Buttler - Ali - Stokes? That's going to be marmite. All 3 out in 5 overs, or they score 200 in 250 balls at the end of an innings.
Jordan as 3rd seamer? Nope. Good fielder, nothing more, send him back to the county scene.
Stokes as a 4th seamer? Yes for me. Think wickets will fly for him soon.
Moores? Nope. Goodbye. NEVER bring someone back into a changing room that failed there before, especially with players still in it.

I'm not even sure the likes of KP are going to be the way forward for the future now either. I'd prefer players like Hales/Taylor/Vince/Roy making their way into the side. Can be offensive and score at a good rate, but have just enough technique about them to make it as test players. There are some big holes to fill for me .

For me.

Cook

Ballance
Bell
Root

Stokes
Buttler

Broad

Anderson





That's my side at the moment. Fit who you like around it. Looking into the future and not who is likely to play in the NZ series in a couple of weeks. Jordan is a no for me, Ali - is he consistent enough? Someone just spend 2 months with Rashid teaching him to bowl 5mph faster. We need a proper 90mph, quick, powerful bowler (IE Finn before we ruined him), perhaps someone like Tymal Mills, it would be more like Plunkett for now. Get Rashid in there, he can bat as well. Stick Hales in with Cook, Root in at 4 and Taylor at 5. Bell isn't in there because he's getting on, not because I don't rate him, but the innings goes nowhere until Root comes in at 5. Lads barely an experienced veteran, he carries the side quite often which is a joke.

In the top 4 you have someone with Tempo (Hales) and some proper test players in Cook and Ballance around him. You have Root in at 4, someone to build the innings around, he keeps the board ticking over but can soak up pressure and turn an innings back in our favour. Taylor I like, good solid little nugget of a player. Stokes, Buttler and Rashid to add some late quick runs. Rashid a proper official spinner. Broad is Broad. Mills is quick, young and interestingly a left armer and well Jimmy is our saviour.



Cook
Hales
Ballance
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Buttler
Rashid
Broad
Mills
Anderson


In reality, a team ready for NZ would be.

Cook
Lyth
Ballance
Bell
Root
Ali
Stokes
Buttler
Broad
Plunkett
Anderson

One suspects Moores will still be in charge and the only change will be Trott out Lyth in. If we persist with this 11 vs NZ, they will smash us. They are on a rollercoaster ride at the moment, confident, playing well - better than us. Southee and Boult are classy bowlers. McCullum can be painfully good if he gets through the moving ball (something he has struggled with in England before) and the Williamson, is our version of Root. Excellent player.

The one positive from this series? Well, the last time we toured poorly to the Windies, the following 4 years were brillant....

Agree on virtually all of the points.

We need to find a permanent partner for Cook. I think Hales has real potential to be the long term opener in the test side, but with two very tough series coming up, it's a big risk. I'd be very reluctant to throw an inexperienced test player into the side, because all that will happen is that he'll probably struggle against high quality opposition and people will get on their backs and write him off before he even had a chance. I think Lyth deserves a shot, and then looking towards the future he can compete with Hales for the slot alongside Cook [assuming Cook maintains form].

Whilst on the subject of players being discarded after not being given a chance, I think Simon Kerrigan deserves at least a mention. I know I may be biased as a Lancashire lad, but he's a very good bowler in the longer form of the game. One disastrous session for England and now he seems to have been discarded completely. If anything has been learned from the recent tour, it's that we need a front line spinner, not a batsman who can chuck a bit. Whether that's Rashid, whether that's Kerrigan, whether it's Adam Riley or even someone like Scott Borthwick, we have to seriously consider who is going to take that role in the team.

Of course the problem with this is, like with the opener situation, throwing one of those inexperienced players into the team at such a vital moment could end up doing far more harm than good. And so we find ourselves back at that oh so familiar problem - the management set up. It's been over a year since Graeme Swann retired, and we've done absolutely nothing to ready the team for his absence. Instead we find ourselves 16 months on, with two part time spinners who couldn't bowl out a weakened WI team on spin-friendly pitches, with the Ashes fast approaching. We should have been using the last year to establish which of our spin options was the best, and working towards integrating that player into the test team.

I could go on to discuss how so much focus on the ODI campaign was detrimental to the test squad, but the less said about that whole fiasco the better.

 

[hodge]

On Strauss, surely the final nail in KP's hopes of playing for England and imo a good thing.

Buttler - Stick with him, given there are no real outstanding keepers on the county circuit atm, Bairstow, tried and failed, Billings not ready. If anything I'd have said Buttler's challenger would have been Kieswetter but, unfortunate for him what happened.

Changes - Lyth in for Trott is a must, the season he had last season he deserves his chance.

Spinner - Rashid or Borthwick for tests I'd have said, Tredwell isn't a forward thinking option. Maybe try and poach Dockrell for limited overs formats.

For NZ (Although I'd look to replace Plunkett if he doesn't stand out)

1. Cook
2. Lyth
3. Ballance
4. Taylor
   
5. Bell
6. Root
7. Buttler
8. Rashid
9. Broad
10. Plunkett
11. Anderson

 

[Pyeman]

On Strauss, surely the final nail in KP's hopes of playing for England and imo a good thing.

Buttler - Stick with him, given there are no real outstanding keepers on the county circuit atm, Bairstow, tried and failed, Billings not ready. If anything I'd have said Buttler's challenger would have been Kieswetter but, unfortunate for him what happened.

Changes - Lyth in for Trott is a must, the season he had last season he deserves his chance.

Spinner - Rashid or Borthwick for tests I'd have said, Tredwell isn't a forward thinking option. Maybe try and poach Dockrell for limited overs formats.

For NZ (Although I'd look to replace Plunkett if he doesn't stand out)

1. Cook
2. Lyth
3. Ballance
4. Taylor
   
5. Bell
6. Root
7. Buttler
8. Rashid
9. Broad
10. Plunkett
11. Anderson

I'm not sure three seamers would be enough. Especially when Broad has been so inconsistent and Plunkett hasn't played for a while.

I think you'd have to lose either of Bell/Taylor and bring in an all-rounder, most likely Stokes. I'd be happy for Taylor to be given a shot; I think he's a ready made replacement for Bell when he retires. It's just a question of when do you stop relying on Bell and start picking Taylor?

Personally I'd give Bell this summer, and then look to rebuild after the ashes with Taylor coming in at 4.

 

[hodge]

Agree Taylor is perfectly lined to replace Bell. I'd be tempted to go 3 seamers to start against NZ and then if it doesn't work change to 4 in that series or against Aus.

 

[blademan89]

Although we lost it was actually a brilliant test to come and see. Ive done 2 now here and adelaide in 2010 which was magnificent. Cape town at new year hopefully thats just as good. Talking of the team its just the same old negative boring shit no experimental changes whatsoever. How adam lyth hasn't been given a chance is beyond me. Moeen ali is not up to it in my opinion and ben stokes needs to start producing more as well. We also basically we now only have 7 wkts to work with as jordan,broad and jimmy may as well not bother anymore with batting

 

[lordofthepies]

Trott has retired from international cricket, apparently. Sad but I guess not a surprise.

The IPL game was a hell of a lot of fun. More tomorrow. Maybe.

 

[Saddlerrad]

Not surprised, glad he's done it on his own terms. Was clearly a shadow of the former player.

 

[hodge]

Was a fantastic player in his prime, hopefully he can enjoy a few seasons with Warwickshire now (as long as Somerset don't suffer)

 

[JJH]

Trott retired.

Lyth surely the direct replacement.

 

[hodge]

May depend if Hales keeps up his form, only challenger really, or for the hell of it they will have Bell or Taylor open

 

[Aber gas]

May depend if Hales keeps up his form, only challenger really, or for the hell of it they will have Bell or Taylor open

Thing is you really can imagine the ecb doing it " right belly , we know you've spent your entire career in the middle order but now your going to have a crack at opening against New Zealand and Australia. Get on with it there's a good chap "

 

[Saddlerrad]

Gayle 111 not out from 53 for RCB in the IPL at the moment. 2 sixes have hit the very top roof of the stadium. Unbelievable hitting, it really is.

 

[NiallQuinnDiscoPants]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/32603943

whilst Boycott is a part of English cricket culture and a broadcasting icon, I wish he would fuck off sometimes.

 

[hodge]

Gayle 111 not out from 53 for RCB in the IPL at the moment. 2 sixes have hit the very top roof of the stadium. Unbelievable hitting, it really is.

I'm sure Taunton will be too big for him to clear the boundary though...

 

[Who Needs Mourinho]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/32603943

whilst Boycott is a part of English cricket culture and a broadcasting icon, I wish he would fuck off sometimes.

Cook was an idiot for what he said about Graves and unsurprisingly Boycott wasn't taking any Yorkshire bashing. Too many of the current cricket pundits still have loyalty to people that are still in the International set up and sit on the fence. You can never accuse Sir Geoffrey of that.

 

[hodge]

Yes Cook was an idiot for saying it but imo Graves was also an idiot for calling the West Indies mediocre in the public eye, whether its the opinion of the ECB as a whole or individuals, not on imo to publicly slag off another country like that. You tell your side privitely you expect a 3-0 win or whatever, and Cook's right it probably did motivate the WIndies. Boycott is obviously taking sides on the Yorkshire issue, but I wonder what his comments would have been had Graves not been a Yorkshireman.

 

[LeoRahi]

It's a shame to see a player of Trotty's calibre retiring like that.. I knew it was coming.

 

[NiallQuinnDiscoPants]

Cook was an idiot for what he said about Graves and unsurprisingly Boycott wasn't taking any Yorkshire bashing. Too many of the current cricket pundits still have loyalty to people that are still in the International set up and sit on the fence. You can never accuse Sir Geoffrey of that.

So if Graves wasn't from Yorkshire, you think Boycott would have stuck up for him?

Boycott has a campaign against most people who aren't from Yorkshire. Would he have said that England's spin performance against West Indies was 'the worst I've ever seen' if it wasn't for the fact that a Yorkshire spinner, Rashid, was omitted from the team in favour of Moeen Ali. 'The worst spinning performance I've ever seen' is a huge over-reaction.

 

[hodge]

Swann vs the aussies before retiring comes to mind

 

[NiallQuinnDiscoPants]

And Boycott was particularly scything about Jonathan Trott at the top of the order as well, and by coincidence it was a Yorkshire batsman in Adam Lyth who missed out on the series due to Trott being picked.

 

[hodge]

And Boycott was particularly scything about Jonathan Trott at the top of the order as well, and by coincidence it was a Yorkshire batsman in Adam Lyth who missed out on the series due to Trott being picked.

To be fair on that I think everyone would have prefered Lyth over Trott

 

[Matt_]

Way too much over reaction to a series draw in the Windies that England, for the most part, dominated and performed quite well in.

Yes there are a few issues, finding an opening partner for Cook after the failed but worthwhile experiment with Trott, a third seamer and possibly the spinner although I'm not convinced over that one.

Mooen over achieved last summer and there is now too much expectation on him. He hasn't become a poor bowler in the space of two tests just like he didn't become the answer to our spin bowling issues after several very good tests last summer. Moeen, in common with many of the players, are part of a developing side that was significantly changed only a year ago and is still generally very much going in the right direction.

The clamor for Adil Rashid is a strange one. Yes he probably should have played in helpful conditions but he looks no more the front line spin option we are looking for than Moeen but the latter has earned the right to a longer spell in the side with his performances last summer.

Where England missed a trick was in selecting Tredwell when a young spinner, like Adam Riley, could have been selected.