The great Poppy debate..

[Leo]

Well, myself and FIFA. Thank god they are defining it with regards to relevant comparisons, even if you refuse to.

What I don't understand, but I'm getting close to, is why someone holds opinion contrary to clear evidence.

You have no interest in this comparison, but FIFA is a global organisation and has a clear interest in the comparison - which is why they have correctly deemed the poppy a political system. Your response is "it's not, and I don't care about any other country" which is why you're some raging fan and not a decision maker.

Glad to get that cleared up.

FFS....where did you crawl out of.........You have shown no evidence, simply an example as in...'What if, say blah, blah'! You are correct though, I have absolutely no interest in your verbal diarrhea. Of course I don't give a toss about the opinions of other countries, why should I ? And NO, FIFA & you are not correct imo....the poppy is NOT a political symbol, it is a symbol of respect although I really wouldn't expect someone with your vague mindset to appreciate that. Decision maker & Raging ? FFS, you must be on the glue again......

 

[St. Juste]

4 lines of, well, nothing?

You admit you don't care in the slightest about what other countries think. But unfortunately international football involves other countries and, in order to remove potentially offensive symbols, FIFA bans all political symbols.

Memorials of the war dead, respectful or not, would clearly (in quite a few circumstances) greatly offend people - which is why they are banned. In several contexts they are clearly political symbols. You can't allow remembrance symbols from the UK and not Japan - so they are both banned, equally.

That's how it works, and you're raging about it is both hilarious and completely misplaced.

I hope FIFA throws the book at both FAs for such a flagrant breach of the rules.

 

[Leo]

4 lines of, well, nothing?

You admit you don't care in the slightest about what other countries think. But unfortunately international football involves other countries and, in order to remove potentially offensive symbols, FIFA bans all political symbols.

Memorials of the war dead, respectful or not, would clearly (in quite a few circumstances) greatly offend people - which is why they are banned. In several contexts they are clearly political symbols. You can't allow remembrance symbols from the UK and not Japan - so they are both banned, equally.

That's how it works, and you're raging about it is both hilarious and completely misplaced.

I hope FIFA throws the book at both FAs for such a flagrant breach of the rules.

The response of a pseudo intellectual. Of course you would want a corrupt organisation to hit out in an attempt to show that they care (Pity they care not a jot about what occurred in Qatar....another corrupt award) such is your warped mind. Again you use the word 'raging'.........you're a sad individual son who unsuccessfully attempts to twist others into your perverted thinking. You are seriously deluded if you honestly believe I would give a even grain of credence to your ramblings.

BTW....at no point did I even mention not allowing any other country to show a form/symbol of respect because as you have now realised I care not a jot!

The glue aint helping you....what was it......8 lines of......sand ? Keep it up....your on a hiding to nothing (if you need that explained I'm only to happy to assist).......

 

[St. Juste]

4 lines of, well, nothing?

You admit you don't care in the slightest about what other countries think. But unfortunately international football involves other countries and, in order to remove potentially offensive symbols, FIFA bans all political symbols.

Memorials of the war dead, respectful or not, would clearly (in quite a few circumstances) greatly offend people - which is why they are banned. In several contexts they are clearly political symbols. You can't allow remembrance symbols from the UK and not Japan - so they are both banned, equally.

That's how it works, and you're raging about it is both hilarious and completely misplaced.

I hope FIFA throws the book at both FAs for such a flagrant breach of the rules.

Good to see reason prevailing and FIFA fining the home nations for such a flagrant breaking of the rules.

The reaction has been drastically ignorant. Yes FIFA is a corrupt organisation (so are all organisations, and the EFA looks keen to take their top spot) but they have got this one bang on.

 

[SALTIRE]

Much ado about literally nothing, on either side.

 

[St. Juste]

Much ado about literally nothing, on either side.

But not if Japan had worn a similar symbol when playing China or the US.

 

[Leo]

Apparently the FA are to appeal against this immoral decision. Hopefully the other home nations follow this example!

 

[St. Juste]

Apparently the FA are to appeal against this immoral decision. Hopefully the other home nations follow this example!

Hope so too. They will clearly lose the appeal and it will show that they were wrong to wear poppies in the first place.

Hopefully they never do it again.

 

[Leo]

Hope so too. They will clearly lose the appeal and it will show that they were wrong to wear poppies in the first place.

Hopefully they never do it again.

Ah, the pseudo intellectual with another pearl of fanciful self importance. Fortunately for commonsense and morality it will not be you that decides on any appeal. We can go on and on and on and on if you so wish but you say they were wrong and I say they were correct to do if they so wished & that is what they did. Your 'opinion' holds no more strength than mine or anyone elses...a fact which you tend to overlook in your dreamlike world. I won't change my mind so you pathetic attempts to convince me otherwise is futile son.....futile! If indeed they do not wish to do this again they will also have my full support but I won't be saying they would be wrong NOT to!

 

[St. Juste]

Is pseudo-intellectual your word of the month or something? You keep using it incorrectly.

Anyway, per my dreamlike world, I am the only one who has actually provided a clear reason why it is banned. And backed it up with relevant examples.

Rather than respond you have stuck to "I believe it, just cause" which is fine. I'm not trying to convince you. You hold this belief as clearly as you might hold that gravity doesn't exist.

You won't change such a deeply ingrained view no matter how false it is. I don't care and neither does anyone else.

 

[Aber gas]

Fight fight fight.

 

[Leo]

Is pseudo-intellectual your word of the month or something? You keep using it incorrectly.

Anyway, per my dreamlike world, I am the only one who has actually provided a clear reason why it is banned. And backed it up with relevant examples.

Rather than respond you have stuck to "I believe it, just cause" which is fine. I'm not trying to convince you. You hold this belief as clearly as you might hold that gravity doesn't exist.

You won't change such a deeply ingrained view no matter how false it is. I don't care and neither does anyone else.

Actually if you had checked the last time I used it (correctly) was in November so to ask is it my word of the month is incorrect as this is the first time in December........but that's you at your best.....I can continue with it if you so wish...........No, it is used exactly as it should be concerning you, irrespective of your desire to dodge the truth. You have provided the square root of bugger all squire apart from your opinion and I have responded to all your trivial drivel. The fact you say don't care about my view would appear to be a tad on the false side as you constantly pathetically attempt to convince me that I am wrong in said view. However that being that I give not a monkey's chuff what you nor anyone else thinks about my view/opinion in the same manner that I care not a jot about your less than mediocre posts when responding to me.....

 

[Leo]

Fight fight fight.

absolutely not mate. Quite simply, an minor irritation on the justy boy front. Having said that....irritation is perhaps too strong.....more like 'of no importance whatsoever'

 

[Jockney]

Can't think of a more performative politics than Poppy-wearing tbh. The whole thing is an implicit collective denial of national responsibility and probably the most vacuous of all the sentimental appeals to remembrance. I like that there is a big furore every year about wearing or not wearing one because it can be a good barometer for nationalistic and authoritarian attitudes depending on how the case is being argued that year specifically. Ironic, innit, coz the direct opposition to nationalism, fascism and otherwise far right authoritarianism is the something we definitely must 'never forget' going into the next epoch.

 

[Nils Holgersson]

The people who wear costumes are generally less likely to be hooligans compared to someone more casual who has the same level of commitment, but I suppose that it can still add to the atmosphere if those who are wearing costumes do dress like medieval soldiers rather than clowns. By that my mind would be made up and I would oppose the banning of costumes not just generally but especially if the ban would be directed against costumes of a blood- and combat-glorifying kind. If anything it's a plus that the dressed up people have some sort of contribution.

Exceptions to this? No. Actually I wouldn't care even if it was Germans in SS uniforms. Only I would be more surprised to see that. Nor would I want to ban Viking helmets with horns even if I dislike the general big event-mentality that such outfits are associated with.

 

[Leo]

The people who wear costumes are generally less likely to be hooligans compared to someone more casual who has the same level of commitment, but I suppose that it can still add to the atmosphere if those who are wearing costumes do dress like medieval soldiers rather than clowns. By that my mind would be made up and I would oppose the banning of costumes not just generally but especially if the ban would be directed against costumes of a blood- and combat-glorifying kind. If anything it's a plus that the dressed up people have some sort of contribution.

Exceptions to this? No. Actually I wouldn't care even if it was Germans in SS uniforms. Only I would be more surprised to see that. Nor would I want to ban Viking helmets with horns even if I dislike the general big event-mentality that such outfits are associated with.

I read an article recently and saw something on tv that Viking helmets didn't actually bear horns......that it was a myth if you will.

 

[Nils Holgersson]

Considering the long travels, lack of fast communications and how they did like to put dragons on their boats for scaring reasons, it's not impossible that somebody somewhere thought of the idea to put horns on a helmet, but it was not accustomary to do that among Vikings. That is correct.

 

[GodsGift]

FIFA have lifted the poppy ban for the home nations. So England will be wearing the poppy against Germany in November...

 

[Aber gas]

I hope we don't.

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

I hope we don't.

You are SCUM.

 

[St. Juste]

FIFA have lifted the poppy ban for the home nations. So England will be wearing the poppy against Germany in November...

Given many multiples more German soldiers and civilians died during the war, are they wearing anything to commemorate their war dead?

No? Do our dead matter more than their dead?

What a truly ridiculous spectacle this is going to be.

But you can't be surprised FIFA have made the wrong decision on this one. Those up in arms about it are exactly the kind of people who have made the poppy a politicised symbol .

 

[Bobbin']

Given many multiples more German soldiers and civilians died during the war, are they wearing anything to commemorate their war dead?

No? Do our dead matter more than their dead?

What a truly ridiculous spectacle this is going to be.

But you can't be surprised FIFA have made the wrong decision on this one. Those up in arms about it are exactly the kind of people who have made the poppy a politicised symbol .

The English FA had to seek agreement from the Germans, which they did so wind your neck in.

 

[Leo]

Hope so too. They will clearly lose the appeal and it will show that they were wrong to wear poppies in the first place.

Hopefully they never do it again.

....remind me to never ask you for lottery numbers .....

 

[Leo]

The English FA had to seek agreement from the Germans, which they did so wind your neck in.

The guy is a buffoon mate. After all his 'I know better than thou' posts and his glorification of his own haverings....I'm having a glass of red in celebration in a kind of 'GIRUY' mode.....

 

[JimJams]

Given many multiples more German soldiers and civilians died during the war, are they wearing anything to commemorate their war dead?

No? Do our dead matter more than their dead?

What a truly ridiculous spectacle this is going to be.

But you can't be surprised FIFA have made the wrong decision on this one. Those up in arms about it are exactly the kind of people who have made the poppy a politicised symbol .

You know the poppy isn't just about 'our' dead?

 

[Dirk]

Given many multiples more German soldiers and civilians died during the war, are they wearing anything to commemorate their war dead?

No? Do our dead matter more than their dead?

What a truly ridiculous spectacle this is going to be.

Just for information:
We commemorate the fallen soldiers (and the civilians who died) in a special day, too. We call this day "Volkstrauertag" ( National Day of Mourning (and the dictionary told me also "Poppy Day") . It's 2 weeks before the first sunday in Advent. And at this day we don't only remember the fallen german soldiers and dead german civilians but all war deads and victims of the tyranny of ALL Nations.

First it was suggested in 1919 by the German War Graves Commission and introduced in 1922 when it was "only" a Remembrance Day for the fallen Soldiers of WW1 but since 1952 it is a remembrance day with a ceremony at our Parliament, the Bundestag.

 

[SALTIRE]

As an aside to this debate, I was at the Black Watch Museum in Perth last Tuesday and what a sobering experience that was. It must take a special person to become a soldier in particular, and I realised fairly early on that I certainly couldn't do it. Some of the things I saw in there was quite heartbreaking, and I feel fortunate that all my immediate family who served, managed to come back from both the World Wars - and the Boer War before that - relatively unscathed.

 

[St. Juste]

The English FA had to seek agreement from the Germans, which they did so wind your neck in.

Is the FA permitting Germany to wear a symbol of remembrance? If not, why not?

....remind me to never ask you for lottery numbers .....

FIFA bottled it, I wonder if they would allow the Japanese national team to commemorate their war dead in a visit to China.

The guy is a buffoon mate. After all his 'I know better than thou' posts and his glorification of his own haverings....I'm having a glass of red in celebration in a kind of 'GIRUY' mode.....

What, really? What an outstanding personal victory this is for you.

You know the poppy isn't just about 'our' dead?

It is a symbol only used and sold in commonwealth countries - with the money going to armed forces charities from these nations.

It would be great if the poppy hadn't become a political symbol, it hasn't been for most of its existence, and it would be great if this judgment was consistently applied and all nations could wear commemorative symbols.

Unfortunately, none of this will be the case, FIFA has bent the rule to the benefit of a rich association and press barons.

 

[St. Juste]

Just for information:
We commemorate the fallen soldiers (and the civilians who died) in a special day, too. We call this day "Volkstrauertag" ( National Day of Mourning (and the dictionary told me also "Poppy Day") . It's 2 weeks before the first sunday in Advent. And at this day we don't only remember the fallen german soldiers and dead german civilians but all war deads and victims of the tyranny of ALL Nations.

First it was suggested in 1919 by the German War Graves Commission and introduced in 1922 when it was "only" a Remembrance Day for the fallen Soldiers of WW1 but since 1952 it is a remembrance day with a ceremony at our Parliament, the Bundestag.

Have you ever demonstrated this remembrance at a football match?

It only started happening in the UK from 2010 onwards following two foreign invasions and occupations our armed forces conducted in the previous decades. Totally coincidental I'm sure, and certainly not a political symbol.

 

[Dirk]

Have you ever demonstrated this remembrance at a football match?

No, we don't do that but I have no problems with the Three Lions wearing this symbol at a football match. I stated it in my post with the remark "Just for information" that in Germany we remember the war deaths and victims of tyranny, too.

It only started happening in the UK from 2010 onwards following two foreign invasions and occupations our armed forces conducted in the previous decades. Totally coincidental I'm sure, and certainly not a political symbol.

tbh, it's not up to me to "judge" about that. I am a citizen of the Bundesrepublik Deutschland and not the United Kingdom and for me it is important that we have this remembrance day in our country with a (silent) ceremony at our Parliament to remind us.
If the english team wants to wear this poppy at their match against my country....let 'em do that. I'm fine with that.