The Labour Thread

[Red]

God help us and i'm a Labour voter! The Tories will be in power for a generation which makes me despair for the sick,the disabled and the poorer in our society.

I think a lot of people have had enough of the choice between neo liberal Labour and neo liberal Labour though mate. What hope was there for us when the Plp couldn't even bring itself to vote against the welfare bill. I voted for Corbyn because I've had enough of Labour moving to the the right.

Rachel Reeves quits the front bench too

Abott supporting Corbyn though...dont like her, hope she doesn't get on the front bench

Racist

I do think it pretty disasterous for the party. He'll be ripped to shreds by the press + tories - he's never been on the front bench, shadow or anything. It will be a real test. I'm just not sure that the answer against the Tories is to go further left [except for scotland] but it won't attract the people who we need to attract to win an election. I fear that the party will end up just talking to itself and associated unions congratulating itself, whilst it's ignored by the rest of the country. Hope not tho.

Well labour lost the last two elections by being a centre right party so maybe its time something else is tried.

I'm looking forward to seeing Corbyn at the despatch box. His style in the election has been one of staying calm and not getting personal. We're used to seeing the PM and ol tearing strips off each other at the despatch box so it'll be interesting to see the new dynamic.

 

[Red]

Jones is a dickhead! Every time he comes on the telly i turn over. He's rude and arrogant and never lets anyone else get a word in. I share some of the same beliefs as him but i just can't fucking stand him.

Homophobe

 

[Alty]

Jones is a dickhead! Every time he comes on the telly i turn over. He's rude and arrogant and never lets anyone else get a word in. I share some of the same beliefs as him but i just can't fucking stand him.

That doesn't marry with what I've seen. He can be combative and certainly holds his own, but he's quite respectful most of the time.

Case in point:

 

[Captain Scumbag]

Jones: I'm very optimistic. Hope kinda drives what I do.

Hitchens: You poor thing.



Such a wonderful distillation of how genuine conservatives (read, not Tories) actually think about and relate to progressives.

 

[Captain Scumbag]

The plain and somewhat sobering truth is that the world and the global economy is very unstable and we therefore have no idea what the political landscape will look like in 4-5 years' time. It might suit Jeremy Corbyn. It might not. Time will tell on that one.

But can I just make something clear: Comrade Corbyn absolutely was (and is) the preferred candidate among us heartless bastards on the right. All that silly entryism stuff (which I thought was bloody embarrassing, frankly) wasn't part of some devilishly clever double bluff. The honest view on the centre-right is that Corbyn doesn't have a hope. He's seen as easy prey.

Things could change, but what ought to be understood is that the conservative mindset has little time for speculation and counterfactuals. It doesn't deal with what it doesn't know; it simply plays the electoral field as it understands it. And that understanding is roughly this: an elderly, beardy lefty who has sat on the political sidelines for 30+ years and whose politics haven't changed since 1983 isn't going to win enough votes from Middle England to win an national election, especially not via FPTP. That understanding won't change until it's proven wrong.

But, hey, the PLP underestimated him (he was only on the ballot as Bennite window dressing) and ended up being horribly embarrassed. Perhaps the conservatives will too. And at least politics is slightly interesting again.

 

[Abertawe]

The honest view on the centre-right is that Corbyn doesn't have a hope. He's seen as easy pray.

Your post has been deemed null & void due to that error. Sorry dude.

 

[Red]

The plain and somewhat sobering truth is that the world and the global economy is very unstable and we therefore have no idea what the political landscape will look like in 4-5 years' time. It might suit Jeremy Corbyn. It might not. Time will tell on that one.

But can I just make something clear: Comrade Corbyn absolutely was (and is) the preferred candidate among us heartless bastards on the right. All that silly entryism stuff (which I thought was bloody embarrassing, frankly) wasn't part of some devilishly clever double bluff. The honest view on the centre-right is that Corbyn doesn't have a hope. He's seen as easy pray.

Things could change, but what has to be understood about the conservative mindset is that it has little time for speculation and counterfactuals. It doesn't deal with what it doesn't know; it simply plays the electoral field as it understands it. And that understanding is roughly this: an elderly, beardy lefty who has sat on the political sidelines for 30+ years and whose politics haven't changed since 1983 isn't going to win enough votes from Middle England to win an national election, especially not via FPTP. That understanding won't change until it's proven wrong.

But, hey, the PLP underestimated him (he was only on the ballot as Bennite window dressing) and ended up being horribly embarrassed. Perhaps the conservatives will too. And at least politics is slightly interesting again.

Naturally for conservatives like yourself Corbyn becoming the labour leader is a welcoming outcome. Being objective it's extremely unlikely Corbyn will become the next Pm, but if nothing else his succes has demonstrated that people are fed up with doublespeak automatons leading the party. Whatever happens now I hope the party acknowledge that.

 

[Abertawe]

Just need to keep throwing out the truth

 

[Pagnell]

A good result for politics, and in many way Labour themselves. My knowledge of the intricacies of politics is lacking in comparison to some on here, but Corbyn is the one I'd have chosen, despite knowing it almost certainly results in Labour not winning the next election. The thing is, that was the case regardless and the other candidates were little more than a collection of MK II Millibands. I didn't want another non-entity in opposition, the last five years have been shit in that respect. I'd sooner have someone interesting with genuine views who will shake things up a bit. And it will be good for politics to be interesting for the first time in years. PMQT will be a blast, and I suspect Cameron and co. won't have it as easy as they currently believe.

 

[pride_of_notts]

I would agree politics will certainly be interesting but certain foreign policies do worry me about Corbyn but he should definately shake up British politics.

 

[.V.]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/jez-we-can-launch-attack-adverts

And it's only the start.

 

[Aber gas]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/jez-we-can-launch-attack-adverts

And it's only the start.

It seems a lot of effort so quickly .corbyn has never hidden his views so there is nothing that should come as a surprise . The Tories were always going to go for him but if Corbyn can keep it together and emerge the " bigger " man it could make the Tory propaganda look a bit desperate .

 

[Dave-Vale]

I find this idea that Corbyn is going to be a pushover when debating with the Tories bizarre. The man speaks with real, raw passion in a similar (more respectful) way to Dennis Skinner. I'm certainly looking forward to seeing him debate with the Tories. No doubt Cameron and his cronies will resort to nasty personal jibes, bringing things up from years ago like they have been pedalling through the national media.

 

[Benji]

I hope Corbyn doesn't like bacon sarnies.

 

[rudebwoyben]

I find this idea that Corbyn is going to be a pushover when debating with the Tories bizarre. The man speaks with real, raw passion in a similar (more respectful) way to Dennis Skinner. I'm certainly looking forward to seeing him debate with the Tories. No doubt Cameron and his cronies will resort to nasty personal jibes, bringing things up from years ago like they have been pedalling through the national media.

To be frank Cameron only knows how to sneer. It's like how dare these uppity plebs upbraid me and it really shows an unpleasant side to him.

 

[Red]

To be frank Cameron only knows how to sneer. It's like how dare this uppity plebs upbraid me and it really shows an unpleasant side to him.

Especially uppity plebs from Yorkshire

 

[Pliny Harris]

I hope Corbyn doesn't like bacon sarnies.

He's vegetarian! It's been mentioned in passing in a few smear articles. It'll be interesting to see how they perform a full attack on it. (Read: crap.)

 

[Dave-Vale]

Apparently 6 members of the shadow cabinet have resigned. They might as well quit the party and be replaced with proper Labour politicians.

 

[Benji]

He's vegetarian! It's been mentioned in passing in a few smear articles. It'll be interesting to see how they perform a full attack on it. (Read: crap.)

I hope Corbyn doesn't like Quorn bacon sarnies.

 

[Captain Scumbag]

Corbyn defied the whip hundreds of times during Labour's last period in office (1997-2010). No doubt he did so out of principle, which I very much admire; but one consequence is that he's pretty much the worst person in the entire PLP to preach the importance of party unity. He's spent a 30-year parliamentary career refusing to compromise on his principles, so can he (or his supporters) now really expect his political opponents within the Labour Party – people who, right or wrong, genuinely disagree with him – to make that compromise now?

Coincidentally, I'm currently re-reading Anthony King's excellent Who Governs Britain as preparation for some pish I'm writing about the EU, and this morning found my way to the following section:

"Tensions between leaders and followers used to be far greater on the Labour side. Labour's leaders were typically moderate in their views and keen, above all, to win elections and power. In contrast, a large proportion of rank-and-file party members were passionate socialists and cared far more about keeping the faith than winning voters' support. Far from deferring to their leaders, many on the Labour side were reluctant to be led at all. In their view, only a truly socialist government was one worth having. Some militants even managed to delude themselves into supposing Labour could win only if it advocated a fully fledged socialist programme.

The split between left and right in the Labour Party persisted for nearly a century, from the party's foundation in 1906 until the mid-1990s. Labour's activists – not Labour's backbench MPs or its parliamentary leaders – were chiefly responsible for Labour's 'lurch to the left' during the 1970s and 1980s, a lurch that resulted in Labour's being excluded from power for no fewer than eighteen years. Fortunately, from that party's point of view, its repeated election defeats – combined with the collapse of communism in the Soviet Union and the decline of militant trade unionism in the UK – tore the heart out of the traditional left and united the party in again hungering for power. Better tepid Labour than the Tories led by anyone. Labour, no longer a socialist party, won in 1997, 2001 and 2005. The ancient left-right split in the Labour Party was consigned to history. It has pretty much remained there. "

Pretty much, yeah…

 

[rudebwoyben]

All I would say about these rebellions was that they were usually against party positions not agreed in the party manifesto, party positions that were imposed from on high by the party leadership without any discussion in the wider movement and that on most of them Corbyn has been proven right. It is clear that JC is seeking to involve the whole party and wider movement in devising policy. If that is the case then any future rebel MPs will be rebelling against the party and not just the leadership.
Additionally, it's very well to have a party who just concentrate on winning power but the fact is it led to a hollowing out of the party and an atrophying of the party's ideological basis.

 

[Pliny Harris]

I hope Corbyn doesn't like Quorn bacon sarnies.

Have you ever tried one of them? Looks like an insole and has an aftertaste as bad as cod liver oil. Hangs in your mouth all day! I reckon he's more of a beans and pulses fella.

 

[smat]

Fantastic result and an absolute landslide!

The power of social media is amazing.

What part do you think social media had to play in this?

 

[Benji]

How many kitchens does this guy have?

 

[Dave-Vale]

What part do you think social media had to play in this?

A massive part. I reckon a huge proportion of the voters that paid £3 to vote were swayed by social media. Loads of stuff all over Facebook and Twitter in the last few months which has no doubt got people reading about him and his ideas.

 

[Etty Abrics]

A massive part. I reckon a huge proportion of the voters that paid £3 to vote were swayed by social media. Loads of stuff all over Facebook and Twitter in the last few months which has no doubt got people reading about him and his ideas.

He would have won it without them.

How will Cameron go about trying to bully a nice old man?

 

[Abertawe]

He isn't a nice old man, he's a terrorist!

 

[Aber gas]

He isn't a nice old man, he's a terrorist!

It's quite funny isn't it ?

 

[Dave-Vale]

Cameron has already posted on his Facebook page about how Corbyn is a threat to our national security.

15,000 new Labour members in 24 hours.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/jez-we-can-launch-attack-adverts

And it's only the start.

Here's that Priti Patel interview in all its glory if anyone fancies a laugh. She really is quite GHASTLY. Naturally their attack dogs in the media haven't wasted any time either (see here and here). And we've potentially got another five years of this to look forward to. Can't wait!

I'm glad that Corbyn won the election, although it's tempered by apprehension as I think the Tories will consider that there are real weaknesses they can exploit - on defence, on immigration, on the economy they'll think they can discredit Corbyn with relative ease. I don't particularly share the Blairite view that Labour can only win elections from the centre but I do suspect that you do need to produce a somewhat compelling package to sell to Middle England. Just as it's no good for the Tories to rack up the votes in the shires, it's not much good for Labour to accumulate a load of votes in London or the urban north. If you don't succeed in the relatively small number of marginals that actually decide elections you'll end up on the losing side. Still, this is all for another day. Five years is an awful long time in politics and I'm unsure as to whether he'll still be at the helm by then - he'll be 70 going on 71 at the time of the next election and I'm unconvinced that he really envisages himself as a potential PM. I would think he more likely sees his task as reinvigorating the party, making democratic reforms and reorientating the party (most notably away from austerity). It's a fiendishly difficult job and the transition from backbench rebel to party leader is unlikely to be an easy one, but if he gets it right (and he's talked a good game thus far) then I think the party could end up in a much healthier position long-term. They'd simply have been treading water under any of the other candidates and scarcely any more likely to win in 2020. The main issue is going to be whether he can maintain party unity. To some extent that depends on whether the Blairite contingent spend more of their time reflecting on their own failings or devising means by which they can oust Corbyn. They'd do well to focus on the former as I think their main enemy has been complacency, not some bearded lefty within their ranks.

Interesting times...