The Labour Thread

[Red]

Corbyn is a threat to working families apparently.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Interesting shadow cabinet - a few moderates and even the odd Blairite (Falconer) in there but the right of the party certainly aren't going to enjoy seeing McDonnell at shadow chancellor!

 

[Alty]

Interesting shadow cabinet - a few moderates and even the odd Blairite (Falconer) in there but the right of the party certainly aren't going to enjoy seeing McDonnell at shadow chancellor!

I must confess to finding McDonnell a rather disappointing choice. Mind you, the very left wing economic policy was always likely to see a very left wing shadow chancellor appointed.

 

[Captain Scumbag]

Oh well. An avowed IRA sympathiser as Shadow Chancellor. A fat, racist hypocrite as Shadow Secretary for Communities and Local Government. And Andy Burnham (gawd bless his northern cotton socks) is going to continue his life-long struggle against the Westminster Bubble by being Shadow Home Secretary. Unless the Chinese bring down the global economy (actually not the craziest idea) or the entire cabinet is unveiled as a Satanic pedophile ring, it's hard to see how the Tories can lose this.

But the most interesting thing about last night – to my mind, anyway – was probably the reason Umunna gave for sitting on the back benches: apparently he sought unequivocal assurances that Cobyn would campaign for Britain to stay in the EU in the forthcoming referendum. And didn't get them. It's also been suggested that Creagh took her ball and went home for the same reason. It's a point I hadn't really reflected on before: Corbyn is probably the first properly EU-sceptic leader Labour has had since Michael Foot. Potentially fascinating subplot.

 

[Stringy]

Here's that Priti Patel interview in all its glory if anyone fancies a laugh. She really is quite GHASTLY. Naturally their attack dogs in the media haven't wasted any time either (see here and here).

Oh God, those two articles. Corbyn attending a meeting that he said he would attend.

The AUDACITY.

 

[rudebwoyben]

Oh well. An avowed IRA sympathiser as Shadow Chancellor. A fat, racist hypocrite as Shadow Secretary for Communities and Local Government. And Andy Burnham (gawd bless his northern cotton socks) is going to continue his life-long struggle against the Westminster Bubble by being Shadow Home Secretary. Unless the Chinese bring down the global economy (actually not the craziest idea) or the entire cabinet is unveiled as a Satanic pedophile ring, it's hard to see how the Tories can lose this.

But the most interesting thing about last night – to my mind, anyway – was probably the reason Umunna gave for sitting on the back benches: apparently he sought unequivocal assurances that Cobyn would campaign for Britain to stay in the EU in the forthcoming referendum. And didn't get them. It's also been suggested that Creagh took her ball and went home for the same reason. It's a point I hadn't really reflected on before: Corbyn is probably the first properly EU-sceptic leader Labour has had since Michael Foot. Potentially fascinating subplot.

Charming sexist comment about Diane Abbott I see. Stay classy.
Umunna won't be missed and he obviously doesn't realise that Corbyn isn't going to be a leader who'll hand down policy by fiat so he couldn't give him those sorts of assurances.

 

[Pliny Harris]

Don't believe there are now fat people in the shadow cabinet. Scenes.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

Don't believe there are now fat people in the shadow cabinet. Scenes.

Get them onto Corbyn's beans and pulses diet. The pounds will drop away!

 

[HertsWolf]

Here's that Priti Patel interview in all its glory if anyone fancies a laugh. She really is quite GHASTLY. Naturally their attack dogs in the media haven't wasted any time either (see here and here). And we've potentially got another five years of this to look forward to. Can't wait!

I'm glad that Corbyn won the election, although it's tempered by apprehension as I think the Tories will consider that there are real weaknesses they can exploit - on defence, on immigration, on the economy they'll think they can discredit Corbyn with relative ease. I don't particularly share the Blairite view that Labour can only win elections from the centre but I do suspect that you do need to produce a somewhat compelling package to sell to Middle England. Just as it's no good for the Tories to rack up the votes in the shires, it's not much good for Labour to accumulate a load of votes in London or the urban north. If you don't succeed in the relatively small number of marginals that actually decide elections you'll end up on the losing side. Still, this is all for another day. Five years is an awful long time in politics and I'm unsure as to whether he'll still be at the helm by then - he'll be 70 going on 71 at the time of the next election and I'm unconvinced that he really envisages himself as a potential PM. I would think he more likely sees his task as reinvigorating the party, making democratic reforms and reorientating the party (most notably away from austerity). It's a fiendishly difficult job and the transition from backbench rebel to party leader is unlikely to be an easy one, but if he gets it right (and he's talked a good game thus far) then I think the party could end up in a much healthier position long-term. They'd simply have been treading water under any of the other candidates and scarcely any more likely to win in 2020. The main issue is going to be whether he can maintain party unity. To some extent that depends on whether the Blairite contingent spend more of their time reflecting on their own failings or devising means by which they can oust Corbyn. They'd do well to focus on the former as I think their main enemy has been complacency, not some bearded lefty within their ranks.

Interesting times...

Good post. I think politics is reinventing itself, not just in this country but more widely. Social media, for all its faults, is creating an instant feedback loop that makes print media, at least, largely irrelevant. Power in this country ultimately depends not on persuading millions to vote one way or the other, but on persuading about 25,000 people in around 11 constituencies. However, that is possibly complicated when one party implodes (LibDems) and another party explodes (SNP). Labour will presumably start sucking up to Scotland and the Tories will continue to woo LibDems in the South West to get back to 'situation normal'.

It has got to the stage that policies may be less important than appearance, anyway. Cameron and Johnson increasingly look and feel isolated from the today's realities. Corbyn is up on a stage supporting mental health issues. Corbyn was out in his shorts and socks at the weekend, while Cameron still, I think, sleeps in a Tewin's two-piece suit and shirt combo. Jezzer already looks like a man of the people, and he's not even trying (He's **that** old-fashioned). Corbyn looks and feels a lot like Michael Foot, and although Foot went on to lose by a spectacular margin, that was in a different time: the social media era may well be a more appropriate time for an ordinary bloke to lead the country.

I also suspect that Corbyn will be popular in Scotland anyway, because of this 'man of the street' aura and that he is probably already aligned with many of the more popular SNP policies. Sturgeon and Salmond must be cursing the other Labour leadership contenders who ended up running bland, spineless campaigns.
(And credit to Michael Gove for being one of the few senior Tories to recognise that Corbyn could well be a real threat to the Tories.)

 

[rudebwoyben]

Get them onto Corbyn's beans and pulses diet. The pounds will drop away!

Don't forget the importance of cycling as well!

 

[Dave-Vale]

Christ, you'd think that Corbyn had invaded and pillaged a few Middle eastern countries the way some right wingers and Tories are going at him.

Real, honest, normal bloke who was out demonstrating against Apartheid whilst Cameron and Co were snorting cocaine and shagging strippers at the Bullingdon Club.

 

[barnet_pls]

Whilst I'm pretty sure that electing Corbyn will lead to disaster, it maybe refreshing to have 2 leaders from vastly different outlooks

 

[Captain Scumbag]

Charming sexist comment about Diane Abbott I see. Stay classy.

She is a hypocrite. Applying the standard she would readily apply (and has applied) to others, she is racist. And, by any meaningful measure, she is fat.

And even if you managed to refute any of the above (notably you didn't try), your bizarre accusation of sexism would still have no basis in reality or good sense because none of my remarks relate to her gender.

It should go without saying, but someone having tits and a vagina does not, ipso facto, make a negative description of that person sexist.

Stay dense.

Don't believe there are now fat people in the shadow cabinet. Scenes.

Oh, plenty of swivel-hipped pie badgers (HT, Cut Thumb) have sat at the cabinet table over the years. Eric Pickles was taking up 3-4 seats as recently as May.

But let's not dwell on his elephantine proportions, shall we? Our Eric has testicles (somewhere under the 17 folds of flab) and an XY chromosome pairing. I don't want rudebwoyben wading in with his dipshit logic and accusing me of misandry.

 

[Jockney]

She is a hypocrite. Applying the standard she would readily apply (and has applied) to others, she is racist. And, by any meaningful measure, she is fat.

And even if you managed to refute any of the above (notably you didn't try), your bizarre accusation of sexism would still have no basis in reality or good sense because none of my remarks relate to her gender.

It should go without saying, but someone having tits and a vagina does not, ipso facto, make a negative description of that person sexist.

Stay dense.

Oh, plenty of swivel-hipped pie badgers (HT, Cut Thumb) have sat at the cabinet table over the years. Eric Pickles was taking up 3-4 seats as recently as May.

But let's not dwell on his elephantine proportions, shall we? Our Eric has testicles (somewhere under the 17 folds of flab) and an XY chromosome pairing. I don't want rudebwoyben wading in with his dipshit logic and accusing me of misandry.

Think it's more that you made a point of singling out Abbot for her physical appearance, which is irrelevant and if not an indication of underlying sexism then at least unhelpful. Pickles might be on the larger side, but then no-one sees it as vaguely intrinsic to his worth as a politician and/or human being.

Also, Abbot wasn't racist. She was right. And besides, prejudice and racism aren't the same thing.

Ps. There are lots of other genuine criticisms that can be levelled against Diane Abbott. For example, she opted to send her son to a private school instead of my old comprehensive Stoke Newington Arts and Media, which was and still is the best state school in her constituency, nay the entire borough.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Think it's more that you made a point of singling out Abbot for her physical appearance, which is irrelevant and if not an indication of underlying sexism then at least unhelpful. Pickles might be on the larger side, but then no-one sees it as vaguely intrinsic to his worth as a politician and/or human being.

Have you ever witnessed any informal discussion about Pickles without his weight being brought up?

Also, Abbot wasn't racist. She was right. And besides, prejudice and racism aren't the same thing.

No, prejudice or discrimination based on race or ethnicity is racism by definition. The fact that a sociology teacher might tell you that power structures are an intrinsic component is neither here nor there. You don't get to redefine a word simply because it has become ideologically inconvenient, and stands in the way of you discriminating against a majority group.

 

[Jockney]

Have you ever witnessed any informal discussion about Pickles without his weight being brought up?

That sort of shallow prejudice is not particularly helpful generally, but then the men's worth is not tied nearly so predominantly to their physical appearance as it is to women.

No, prejudice or discrimination based on race or ethnicity is racism by definition. The fact that a sociology teacher might tell you that power structures are an intrinsic component is neither here nor there. You don't get to redefine a word simply because it has become ideologically inconvenient, and stands in the way of you discriminating against a majority group.

If we're going to get into completely semantic piddle then we might as well toss the argument out of the window altogether. For whatever reason, you insist on sticking to a weird rigid logic that is bereft of context when discussing matters that fundamentally demand a nuanced, critical perspective, so I'll just cut straight to the chase.

Let's take for granted that racism was concocted in the linguistic primordial ooze and shall remain ever unmalleable and just so in its definition, regardless of how we apply it, until the dying days of Miriam-Webster.

* Black people can be racist against white people in hypothetical scenarios. In the same way that anti-heterosexual discrimination is like a totally possible thing.
* You could argue under strict and justifiable logic, for example, that Mugabe is an anti-white racist, but also that the situation in Zimbabwe is too complex to be directly compared to a legacy of racism that, under many guises, of varying severity, has exploited and dehumanised people of various colours to satisfy the greed and power of white people (a very simplistic analysis, but, you know, bullet points. A lot of the time working class whites were played off against working class blacks which benefited neither, for example).
* We have to accept in this scenario that what we understand as racism as applied in these discussions is not racism because otherwise we implicitly suggest that legitimate hatred for white power structures and/or white supremacy, of which as mentioned before has a long, extensive history and an even more potent legacy, is comparable or somehow on par with legitimate forms of discrimination and oppression which most white people (or white cis-gendered men, at least) will never have to experience.

And finally you are a big fucking gay.
No, I'm not being homophobic, it means happy and will always mean happy. You can't change the definition of a word.

 

[Pliny Harris]

If this is about Diane Abbott's "divide and rule" tweet to Bim Adewumni, I'm decidedly #notarsed, both by the weight of the remark's consequence on prejudice towards white people and the (in)validity of it. In terms of galumphing mistakes, her hypocrisy over state vs. private is easily worse.

 

[Stevencc]

If this is about Diane Abbott's "divide and rule" tweet to Bim Adewumni, I'm decidedly #notarsed, both by the weight of the remark's consequence on prejudice towards white people and the (in)validity of it. In terms of galumphing mistakes, her hypocrisy over state vs. private is easily worse.

 

[Red]

She is a hypocrite. Applying the standard she would readily apply (and has applied) to others, she is racist. And, by any meaningful measure, she is fat.

And even if you managed to refute any of the above (notably you didn't try), your bizarre accusation of sexism would still have no basis in reality or good sense because none of my remarks relate to her gender.

It should go without saying, but someone having tits and a vagina does not, ipso facto, make a negative description of that person sexist.

Stay dense.

Oh, plenty of swivel-hipped pie badgers (HT, Cut Thumb) have sat at the cabinet table over the years. Eric Pickles was taking up 3-4 seats as recently as May.

But let's not dwell on his elephantine proportions, shall we? Our Eric has testicles (somewhere under the 17 folds of flab) and an XY chromosome pairing. I don't want rudebwoyben wading in with his dipshit logic and accusing me of misandry.

Are you Ebeneezer's dad? It's just that you both come over as being humourless automatons

 

[Dave-Vale]

As much as there is a lot of negative stuff going around about him, there are also a hell of a lot of people defending him and backing him!

So much of the bullshit headlines about him have been absurdly taken out of the context they were in. No wonder he fucking hates the media.

JEZ WE CAN!

 

[Red]

The BBCs coverage of Corbyn has been very disappointing today. Has anyone seen the film a very British coup? It was written by a Labour MP back in the day. The plot was based around a proper left wing MP becoming the the PM and then how the establishment and media conspired to destroy him. It's pretty much what they're trying to do with Corbyn.

#jezza4pm

 

[Pliny Harris]

 

[rudebwoyben]

The BBCs coverage of Corbyn has been very disappointing today. Has anyone seen the film a very British coup? It was written by a Labour MP back in the day. The plot was based around a proper left wing MP becoming the the PM and then how the establishment and media conspired to destroy him. It's pretty much what they're trying to do with Corbyn.

#jezza4pm

And funnily enough, Chris Mullin the author of that piece of work, was interviewed in John Ware's (father of singer Jessie) Panorama hatchet piece on the BBC last week.

 

[rudebwoyben]

She be like, "Am I bothered?"

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

The BBCs coverage of Corbyn has been very disappointing today.

I think the Beast of Bolsover may share this view...

if you want the context...

 

[Pliny Harris]

She be like, "Am I bothered?"

I looked through hundreds of photos of Abbott and that was the sassiest one.

Edit: enjoyable Vice article from 30th April 2015 to read back on. Interviews Corbyn and McDonnell in Westminster. The latter's seriously going to get it in the neck for his comment on going back in time to assassinate Thatcher, haha. http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/jeremy-corbyn-john-mcdonnell-interview-election-2015-labour-party-674

 

[mnb089mnb]

Diane Abbott isn't the only fat person in Corbyn's shadow cabinet, Tom Watson is fat too.

Pickles is in a different league to both of them, though.

This is my favourite tweet on the subject of Diane Abbott being fat:

"What a shame i cant congratulate fat rascist pig diane abbott . blocked for asking questions about chemtrails"

 

[Red]

Diane Abbott isn't the only fat person in Corbyn's shadow cabinet, Tom Watson is fat too.

Pickles is in a different league to both of them, though.

This is my favourite tweet on the subject of Diane Abbott being fat:

"What a shame i cant congratulate fat rascist pig diane abbott . blocked for asking questions about chemtrails"

How can somebody spell congratulate correctly but fuck up spelling racist ?

 

[HertsWolf]

Have you ever witnessed any informal discussion about Pickles without his weight being brought up?

Yes. I've witnessed almost none that have.
People's appearances are rarely worthy of praise or ridicule.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

While I can switch between Tory and Labour and will have to see what this guy brings to table to make a judgment.

I do feel sorry for him in regards to the Sun and Daily Mail............really should be an out and out clampdown on them papers as the stuff the last 2-3 days has bordered on outright Goebbels style propaganda than a genuine National Newspaper.

News should be regulated when its become that extreme in its backing to one party.